Guest man Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 But they "believed". You said all one had to do was believe and they were sealed with the Holy Spirit. If they weren't saved to begin with, why is the latter end worst than the first? If they weren't saved, shouldn't it have been the same? No they didn't believe. Apostates come close but never hit the mark. There's believing......and then there's believing in your heart, big difference. Their latter end is worse because they have corrupted themselves with more sin than say back when they were born or a child. 2 Peter 2 20For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning. 21 For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them. What's the only way to escape the pollutions of the world? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willa Posted January 6, 2014 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 68 Topic Count: 186 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 14,242 Content Per Day: 3.33 Reputation: 16,657 Days Won: 30 Joined: 08/14/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted January 6, 2014 I believe something between the two. In several places we are told that those who make sin a lifestyle will not inherit the kingdom of God. It is possible to so harden ones heart to the Holy Spirit's call to repentance that we never return to the Lord. I believe that the Lord keeps all who want to be kept, but that we can be so hardened by the deceitfulness of sin that we no longer care or want to be saved. And if we do that till death we shall be lost.. However, being in rebellion for a few weeks in not a lifestyle. We are told in Hebrews 3 & 4, Today, if you hear His voice, do not harden your hearts as they did in the wilderness. This means that there remains room for repentance as long as we still hear His voice. If we no longer can hear God's voice because we are so hardened, that person is in real trouble. I doubt that the person who has fully surrendered his life to God will ever reach this point. It is the person who has only surrendered those areas that he know he needs help in, who fool themselves to believe that some portions of the Bible don't apply to them that remain in danger. Those who are deceived into thinking that it is ok to be cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorerers, idolaters, liars, adulterers, fornicators, homosexuals, sodomites, thieves, covetous, revilers, extortioners, unclean, lewd, haters, those who practice being contentious, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissentions, herecies, envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries. Those who continue to practice these things till they can no longer hear God's voice that shall not inherit the Kingdom of Heaven. These things are lifestyles that continue for many months or even years becoming progressively worse as the person continutes to harden their hearts to the Holy Spirit till the person scorns the blood of Christ and scorns the Holy Spirit of grace. This is blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. It is not the commission of one rebellious sin, though the downward spiral may start with that if the person does not repent. As long as a person is walking in the light the blood of Jesus continually cleanses us from all sin. But if he does sin willfully, if he confesses his sin, God is faithful and just to forgive and cleanse from all unrighteousness. We cannot put a time limit on God's grace. As long as there remains a today and the person can still hear God's voice, he is still able to repent and is still in a state of grace. I know of a church that told a lady in a nursing home who had not been able to attend a mid week service that she needed to be saved again. Sorry, folks, that is a lie and in itself scorns the blood of Christ to say such a thing. God's grace extends much much farther than some give Him credit for. Those who sin willfully will be soundly chastised and scourged by the Living God. They don't just get away with sinning. God has His own ways of humbling us and keeping us. Only the most calloused and the sons of perdition, are lost, and then it is their decision, not God's. Just my opinion. Love, Willa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest man Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 Just for the record, I'm not saying that if you commit a sin and immediately die, you're going to hell. But if you walk away from God, there are consequences. And simply believing is not a sure sign of salvation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest DRS81 Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 And what of this passage? Were they not saved to begin with? There's no question that they believed. Matthew 7 21"Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22Many will say to Me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?' 23And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!' What specifically are you looking at here. What verse, what words? Read the passage and understand. In the beginning they were nonbelievers. They were lost. Where do the lost end up? That passage says the latter end is worst than the beginning. What can be worst than eternal damnation? Since the passage is talking about apostates/nonbelievers, the devil can also possess their soul. The latter end can look like this...http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anneliese_Michel Ok, show me from the Word where it is taught that believers are allowed to practice witchcraft. The Bible is against witchcraft man, rather that is the action of rebellion for the believer because of free will. 20For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning. 2 Peter 2 21 For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them. What's the only way to escape the pollutions of the world? Read more carefully.. For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world, http://www.biblestudytools.com/commentaries/gills-exposition-of-the-bible/2-peter-2-20.html The sins of it, the governing vices of it, which the men of the world are addicted to, and immersed in; for the whole world lies in wickedness, and which are of a defiling nature: the phrase is Rabbinical; it is said, ``he that studies not in the law in this world, but is defiled (amle ypwnjb) , "with the pollutions of the world", what is written of him? and they took him, and cast him without:'' these, men may escape, abstain from, and outwardly reform, with respect unto, and yet be destitute of the grace of God; so that this can be no instance of the final and total apostasy of real saints; for the house may be swept and garnished with an external reformation; persons may be outwardly righteous before men, have a form of godliness and a name to live, and yet be dead in trespasses and sins; all which they may have Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest DRS81 Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 It's impossible for a born again christian that has been indwelled with the holy spirit to turn his back on God. Apostasy is turning your back on God completely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest man Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 And what of this passage? Were they not saved to begin with? There's no question that they believed. Matthew 7 21"Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22Many will say to Me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?' 23And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!' What specifically are you looking at here. What verse, what words? Come on, let's not play games. Games are for little children. If you want to have a serious discussion, then let's do that. But if you're going to resort to this kinda stuff, you're wasting my time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest DRS81 Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 Come on, let's not play games. Games are for little children. If you want to have a serious discussion, then let's do that. But if you're going to resort to this kinda stuff, you're wasting my time. To be honest I am exhausted and going to bed. Good night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest man Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 Ok, show me from the Word where it is taught that believers are allowed to practice witchcraft. The Bible is against witchcraft man, rather that is the action of rebellion for the believer because of free will. Then why did you say that a believer that does evil is not really doing evil, but that they doing witchcraft? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest DRS81 Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 Ok, show me from the Word where it is taught that believers are allowed to practice witchcraft. The Bible is against witchcraft man, rather that is the action of rebellion for the believer because of free will. Then why did you say that a believer that does evil is not really doing evil, but that they doing witchcraft? Because the believer is no longer of the world. (Eph 2:2 in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience.) (1 John 4:3 and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you heard was coming and now is in the world already.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest DRS81 Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 I believe something between the two. In several places we are told that those who make sin a lifestyle will not inherit the kingdom of God. It is possible to so harden ones heart to the Holy Spirit's call to repentance that we never return to the Lord. I believe that the Lord keeps all who want to be kept, but that we can be so hardened by the deceitfulness of sin that we no longer care or want to be saved. And if we do that till death we shall be lost.. However, being in rebellion for a few weeks in not a lifestyle. We are told in Hebrews 3 & 4, Today, if you hear His voice, do not harden your hearts as they did in the wilderness. This means that there remains room for repentance as long as we still hear His voice. If we no longer can hear God's voice because we are so hardened, that person is in real trouble. I doubt that the person who has fully surrendered his life to God will ever reach this point. It is the person who has only surrendered those areas that he know he needs help in, who fool themselves to believe that some portions of the Bible don't apply to them that remain in danger. Those who are deceived into thinking that it is ok to be cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorerers, idolaters, liars, adulterers, fornicators, homosexuals, sodomites, thieves, covetous, revilers, extortioners, unclean, lewd, haters, those who practice being contentious, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissentions, herecies, envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries. Those who continue to practice these things till they can no longer hear God's voice that shall not inherit the Kingdom of Heaven. These things are lifestyles that continue for many months or even years becoming progressively worse as the person continutes to harden their hearts to the Holy Spirit till the person scorns the blood of Christ and scorns the Holy Spirit of grace. This is blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. It is not the commission of one rebellious sin, though the downward spiral may start with that if the person does not repent. As long as a person is walking in the light the blood of Jesus continually cleanses us from all sin. But if he does sin willfully, if he confesses his sin, God is faithful and just to forgive and cleanse from all unrighteousness. We cannot put a time limit on God's grace. As long as there remains a today and the person can still hear God's voice, he is still able to repent and is still in a state of grace. I know of a church that told a lady in a nursing home who had not been able to attend a mid week service that she needed to be saved again. Sorry, folks, that is a lie and in itself scorns the blood of Christ to say such a thing. God's grace extends much much farther than some give Him credit for. Those who sin willfully will be soundly chastised and scourged by the Living God. They don't just get away with sinning. God has His own ways of humbling us and keeping us. Only the most calloused and the sons of perdition, are lost, and then it is their decision, not God's. Just my opinion. Love, Willa I'm reading this later. TY my friend. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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