Kabowd Posted December 13, 2004 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 112 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 3,489 Content Per Day: 0.48 Reputation: 13 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/28/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted December 13, 2004 Oi vey...here we go again. Repent, how many topics are you going to start about OSAS? Giving it a new title or putting it in a new forum doesn't disguise what it is. Who are you so bent on convincing that they can lose their salvation? I'm secure in my salvation and I have no fears about losing it. I've studied the issue in depth for more than 3 years and the Holy Spirit has given me a peace about what I believe. The disturbing thing to me, is when other believers seem to push and insist that I have cause to fear or "reasons" to distrust God's promises to hold me securely in His grip. I've debated this over and over numerous times and rarely see someone persuaded from one side to the other. If you or anyone choose to believe salvation can be lost and that works for you, great. But please don't push others to doubt their faith, and question their security by teaching them a doctrine of fear and doubt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric Posted December 13, 2004 Group: Graduated to Heaven Followers: 2 Topic Count: 50 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,073 Content Per Day: 0.52 Reputation: 43 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/02/2002 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/10/1923 Share Posted December 13, 2004 If you or anyone choose to believe salvation can be lost and that works for you, great. But please don't push others to doubt their faith, and question their security by teaching them a doctrine of fear and doubt. So it's alright for you to push your your interpretation as sacrosanct, but others aren't allowed to. Three years?? Iv'e known and still know people who have been studying for forty years and they still get it wrong. I can say that my salvation is safe for all eternity, but then I haven't had to stand by and watch my children or grandchildren, with I knife at their throat telling me, that if I don't renounce Jesus, they'll cut their heads off in front of me. Peter denied Christ three times dont forget. You are entitled to your opinion, Tess, and so is everyone else. So chill out. in Christ, eric. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kabowd Posted December 13, 2004 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 112 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 3,489 Content Per Day: 0.48 Reputation: 13 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/28/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted December 13, 2004 Chill out? I'm not the one starting numerous topics about this subject..and I hardly think that defending my beliefs is the same as "pushing" it on others. A discussion is one thing, and yes we're all free to participate. But when the same ppl repeatedly start topics about controversial doctrines over and over, I think it's divisive rather than fruitful. I've yet to see someone who believes in OSAS start a topic trying to convince others of it....but I've seen several topics from the opposite side starting topics such as this. It just makes me really curious as to why...and maybe I'll chill out when ppl stop trying to tell me I'm a heretic or "falling from grace" simply because I don't agree with their theology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgolvach Posted December 13, 2004 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 110 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,254 Content Per Day: 0.17 Reputation: 6 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/28/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted December 13, 2004 . Webster's dictionary defines grace as "unconstrained and undeserved divine favor or goodwill". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apothanein kerdos Posted December 13, 2004 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 331 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 8,713 Content Per Day: 1.20 Reputation: 21 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/28/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted December 13, 2004 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric Posted December 13, 2004 Group: Graduated to Heaven Followers: 2 Topic Count: 50 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,073 Content Per Day: 0.52 Reputation: 43 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/02/2002 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/10/1923 Share Posted December 13, 2004 But when the same ppl repeatedly start topics about controversial doctrines over and over, I think it's divisive rather than fruitful. Yes, Tess, you are right about it being a controversial topic. It certainly is and it's been around on message boards for at least three years to my knowledge and will keep surfacing, but I don't recall anyone calling you a heretic. I'm sure if they had they would have been admonished as they rightly should have been. However, I would hardly call it divisive any more than the discussions about pre, mid and post trib, or Calvanism v Armenianism. Only God knows all the answers. Jesus is my only counsellor. cheers, eric. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Repent1 Posted December 13, 2004 Group: Junior Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 105 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/20/2004 Status: Offline Author Share Posted December 13, 2004 I can see where "faith alone" would be a very comforting idea, can't you? If that were true, you wouldn't have to worry about anything you might do. In fact, it would leave you the option of doing anything you might desire. Things such as cheating, lying, committing sexual immorality (and all that it implies) or even murder might be engaged in without fear of any repercussions from God. This is a false outlook on those of us who believe that we cannot lose our salvation. We do not believe that one is free to sin once they have accepted Christ. Instead we believe that a person who has accepted Christ will show proof of a life changed and a life affected by Christ. Thus if one claims salvation but continues to sin, then they have believed in vain. They took an intellectual acknowledgment of Christ but did not commit this belief to their heart, thus were not saved. It seems somewhat strange that people believe this, in that we have so much evidence in the Bible, of God placing conditions on mankind. In Gen. 2:16-17 God told Adam, "Of every tree of the garden you may freely eat; but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat..." Is this not a command from God that Adam and Eve were required to keep? Because of the fact that they transgressed that command (sinned), Adam (and Eve) were driven out of the garden and man was separated from God This is not a condition to salvation and it also precedes Christ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Christian Posted December 13, 2004 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 42 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 205 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/10/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted December 13, 2004 As someone saved in a denomination that believes in the theory of "losing your salvation", I could not handle this. I was a poor Christian with this over my head. I am not able to embrace this school of thought any more. If this is true, why try? This, I believe is one thing that led to a nervous breakdown. How can I be secure in the Lord if I feel like I will be sent to Hell by committing a sin and may not realize it or have not the time to ask forgiveness for it? In fact, some sins can and do contain things that are habitual and hard for some more than others to overcome?I mean if some choose to live by this theory, so be it, that is cool with me, but I have to have complete security in Christ. (I said security, not just a fire escape that is handy so one can still deliberatly sin. ) Oh, and by the way, look at Matthew 3:10,"And even now the ax is laid to the root of the trees.Therefore every tree which does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire." Now I know it can be said, "See!" But this I believe this could be speaking of sin unto death. Just something to think about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Botz Posted December 13, 2004 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 76 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,492 Content Per Day: 0.61 Reputation: 191 Days Won: 18 Joined: 03/29/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted December 13, 2004 Tess...I've yet to see someone who believes in OSAS start a topic trying to convince others of it....but I've seen several topics from the opposite side starting topics such as this. It just makes me really curious as to why The obvious conclusion would be that those that believe in OSAS have no need to point out the possibility that a fellow Christians behaviour might have more serious repercussions than they have been led to believe...whereas a person who is convinced that the salvation package is clinched at death when a person can say 'it is finished' would be more inclined to point out the 'pitfalls' of what they perceive as 'sloppy grace'. The extremes of the different teachings can promote a casualness and lack of passion in the one camp...and unhealthy uncertainty and fear in the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Repent1 Posted December 13, 2004 Group: Junior Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 105 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/20/2004 Status: Offline Author Share Posted December 13, 2004 . Webster's dictionary defines grace as "unconstrained and undeserved divine favor or goodwill". <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I guess that would explain why "conditional grace" is an oxy-moron. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Greetings SJ, God's blessings on this day Grace is not conditional, your fellowship with grace is. [i Corinthians 10:21] Ye cannot drink the cup of the Lord, and the cup of devils: ye cannot be partakers of the Lord's table, and of the table of devils. [iI Corinthians 6:14-18] 14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? 15 And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel? 16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk (operate) in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. 17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive (accept) you. 18 And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty. [My testimony] Maybe I'm slow, but this sounds like conditions to me your brethren in Christ, Repent1.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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