The Church of Laodicea

[tsth]

What kind of fire tests faith? Faith seems to exists spiritually with physical evidence while fire is only physical.

To continue in Peter..

2 Peter But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything in it will be laid bare.

Since everything will be destroyed in this way, what kind of people ought you to be? You ought to live holy and godly lives as you look forward to the day of God and speed it's coming. That day will bring about the destruction of the heavens by fire, and the elements will melt in the heat. But in keeping with his promise we are looking forward to a new heaven and a new earth, the home of righteousness.

Is this the same fire that will refine our faith to be like that of pure gold?

Revelation 11 The time has come for judging the dead, and for rewarding your prophets and your saints and those who reverence your name, both small and great

Somewhere in the major upheaval on the earth we will receive our rewards. Paul (in the above Corinthian verse) said this comes through fire. With the flames of Jesus, all of the temporary and worthless items (gold, wealth) are consumed. Poor Laodicea-- they really are poor!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And that would bring us back to the focus of the passage of 1st Peter previously, that I did not highlight, but should have, I see now. I'll post it again with proper focus:

1 Peter 6 In this you greatly rejoice, though now for a little while, if need be, you have been grieved by various trials, 7 that the genuineness of your faith, being much more precious than gold that perishes, though it is tested by fire, may be found to praise, honor, and glory at the revelation of Jesus Christ, 8 whom having not seen you love. Though now you do not see Him, yet believing, you rejoice with joy inexpressible and full of glory, 9 receiving the end of your faith--the salvation of your souls.

In His Love,

Suzanne

[Guest hubertdorm]

Ah, my bad

This is what happens when you've seen a verse so many times you forget what it is actually saying

[tsth]

No, not at all hubertdorm,

I was glad you focused on that, and brought it to the forefront. I do hope that today I'll have some time to get back on this study. I do look forward to more time on this one. Please, if you have studied on this today, post what you heard and learned.

In His Love,

Suzanne

[tsth]

Rev. 3:18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.

gold - #5553 - jewelry, coins

tried - #4448 - (only word for this particular meaning) - to burn inwardly

fire - #4442 - flames, fire/ Psalm 50:3?

white raiment - #3022, #2440, - white, bleached, whitened.

Daniel 11:35/12:10 (#3835) interesting def. here: to make "bricks", to make white.....remember the testing of the Israelites in the story of Moses and Pharoah? Refining/testing/tried

See Psalm 48!

clothed - #4016 - also interesting, although it means to dress or wrap around, this is symbolic and actually pertains to occasions. Root meaning of word is combined of 2 words #4012 + 906 which means:

4012-about, concerning, in regard to, about

906-to throw, to put, casting

shame - #146-#150 can mean pursuing dishonest gain, given to filthy lucre, filthy language, filthy communication, vulgar speech, disgraceful

annoint - I'll wait on this one and the others till later.

In His Love,

Suzanne

[Botz]

Hi Suzanne.

I am not one of those that believes the seven epistles to these Churches represents seven eras of Church development..I believe this is an unintentional smokescreen that gets away from the immediacy of what is being said by the L-rd to the Church...NOW ...yes it was for then...but it is a living word that customises itself to our condition.

The date of Johns letter is approx. ..81-96 CE

Focusing just on the Laodiceans everything that is being described by the L-rd Jesus can apply to different Church groups and various individuals in the Churches...and has at times been the testimony of many of us...I mean how many times have you felt convicted when the word 'luke-warm' comes up...I know I have.

If we take a look at the history of Laodicea it throws some light onto the terminology used by the L-rd as a wake up call to the people at that time and can help us now to better understand and remember this admonition in a solid and graphic context.

When Alexander the Great died his vast Greek empire was divided into different kingdoms by his closest Generals that formed the diadochi (successors) and the North Eastern area (basically from Turkey through to Afghanistan) was established and ruled by a proven general and friend of Alexander...Seleucus.

Laodicea was founded about 260 BC by the Seleucid king Antiochus 2nd who named it after his wife Laodice... [after a divorce and reconciliation she ended up poisoning him]. Antiochus is said to have peopled his new town with a mix of Jews and Syrians taken into Babylonian captivity...and later to have even taken citizens from Philippi which was under the jusisdiction of the Ptolemy dynasty.

The name Antiochus means 'against' or 'instead of' and his nickname was Theos..thus 'Antiochus Theos' can be translated as 'Instead of G-d' and is a reminder that the inhabitants of Laodicea had their hearts set on wealth instead of G-d.

This is shown by the cultural development of this town...which amongst many things became a centre of banking because many older people retired there and brought their wealth in silver and gold to the town. It was also in a strategic position for the trade route into Asia minor.

Revelations 3:14 "To the angel of the assembly in Laodicea write: "The Amein, the Faithful and True Witness, the Head of God's creation, says these things:

One of the accepted views is that each angel of the various Churches mentioned represents the pastors and elders who have charge over the peoples and minister to them. I presume the precedent for this is in the translation of the word angel..meaning messenger and the fact that it is to them that John is told to write.

Rev 3:15 "I know your works, that you are neither cold nor hot. I wish you were cold or hot.

Rev 3:16 So, because you are lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I will vomit you out of my mouth.

Many times this verse is preached as meaning 'either be on fire...or don't even bother trying to be righteous...just be cold and honest..I prefer that.'

It becomes clearer and more profound when we can see that Laodicea had no pure water supply of her own and imported water via pipes and aquaduct from nearby Colossae which had cold springs...the other nearby town of Hieropolis had hot springs.

It is said that the water within Laodicea had to be boiled before it could be drunk otherwise it would make you vomit...so those to whom this word was directed were immediately aware of the import of the words...and had an everyday reminder...both hot water and cold water have benefits. Hot water has a healing effect and cold water has a refreshing quality.

Rev 3:17 Because you say, 'I am rich, and have gotten riches, and have need of nothing;' and don't know that you are the wretched one, miserable, poor, blind, and naked;

Not only was Laodicea a very rich town...it had also been given independancy by Rome and didn't rely on anyone else...this can be acknowledged by a sentence in mentioned in Tacitus where the Laodiceans refused the proffered help from Rome when in AD60 an earthquake flattened much of their town...They were proud of their self-sufficiency....they would have sung the song by Frank Sinatra...'I did it my way' with unabashed gusto.

Rev 3:18 I counsel you to buy from me gold refined by fire, that you may become rich; and white garments, that you may clothe yourself, and that the shame of your nakedness may not be revealed; and eye salve to anoint your eyes, that you may see.

We have already mentioned Laodicea as a banking centre...but it was also famous for its shiny black cloth that was produced from a highly prized strain of black sheep ...this is in such stark contrast to the white garments that they are advised to clothe thenselves with by the L-rd. There is so much that could be written...the Laodiceans have minds that are blinded to their nakedness and they walk not in innocence but in ignorance to their condition.

To cap it all ...from the hot springs they obtained an ointment that was reknowned throughout the whole civilized world..it was known as Collyrium and used as a Phygian eye-salve. This in turn was produced in the temple of their favorite god Aesculapius who was a counterfeit of the Messiah and known as 'The Great Physician.'

In summary the Laodiceans have been given a directive from which they are prophetically reminded by everything their life revolves around on a daily basis...they cannot escape this word...and when we see the lengths to which the L-rd has gone to re-establish these people in righteousness though such a powerful and yet loving admonition....it is pretty humbling and just another awesome example of the touch of the Holy Ghost.

Rev 3:19 As many as I love, I reprove and chasten. Be zealous therefore, and repent.

As a post-script it is interesting to see that there was a Laodicean synod in the 4th century that rejected the book of Revelations from the Canon of Scripture! There were also insinuations that the Laodiceans conviently misplaced the epistle that was directed to them by Paul and mentioned in Colossians.

Colossians 4:16 When this letter has been read among you, cause it to be read also in the assembly of the Laodiceans; and that you also read the letter from Laodicea.

There was however an epistle to the Laodiceans that was included in Bibles up till the 15th century...and I believe the Quakers use it as a supplement...but most scholars disdain it totally as a fake because there are no fragments or Greek translations pertaining to it...and in my opinion it reads pure plagiarism.

[tsth]

Dear Botz,

I'm not trying to be rude, but if we believe the Scriptures have merit, then we must believe that they are written for us to learn from, but not in the way of a history lesson, but for life application now. I truly believe that the 7 churches written of, are for our warning and benefit. There is no doubt in my mind that those churches are alive today, believe me I've visited and attended a few of them. They are REAL, and so are we. The admonitions to them, are equally to us today. I do appreciate the study you put into this, but it sort of seems to remove "US" from the equation, and I don't believe that was the intent of the message. I hope I have not misunderstood.

In His Love,

Suzanne

[Botz]

Dear Suzanne.

You wrote...

I'm not trying to be rude, but if we believe the Scriptures have merit, then we must believe that they are written for us to learn from, but not in the way of a history lesson, but for life application now. I truly believe that the 7 churches written of, are for our warning and benefit. There is no doubt in my mind that those churches are alive today, believe me I've visited and attended a few of them. They are REAL, and so are we. The admonitions to them, are equally to us today. I do appreciate the study you put into this, but it sort of seems to remove "US" from the equation, and I don't believe that was the intent of the message. I hope I have not misunderstood.

You have totally misunderstood!

Of course I believe the Scriptures have merit.

The whole point I was making about the 7 Churches is that what was said about them then is applicable to us today...I just happened to qualify my observation with the fact that I personally do not subscribe to the idea that the 7 Churches represent 7 ages...and that we are now in the 7th period...thus the Laodicean age....some do and some don't. I thought my opening paragraph made this abundantly clear...obviously not.

I am sorry you find the historical context to be inappropriate to the form of study you desire to pursue..personally in a study of the Scriptures I always find it much easier to appreciate, understand and remember the word of G-d when it is not removed from the richness of its surroundings to be dissected in the sterile wastelands of Hellenistic spirituality. I hoped this was evident and appropriate in what I wrote...perhaps one or two others will benefit from it.

[tsth]

I'm sorry Botz,

I've obviously hurt your feelings. I am truly sorry. Just can't seem to get emotions or thoughts across appropriately here. Wish I could, so if it's ok, I'll just say "I'm sorry", and hope you'll just disregard what I was not able to convey in feeling, in my above post.

I am sure that the historical route will appeal to someone on a different level, but, you're right, it just wasn't the direction I was headed, I just didn't get my intent across very well inspite of not wanting to step on toes, I did anyway. I hope you'll forgive me for that.

In His Love,

Suzanne

[Botz]

Of Course I gladly forgive you Suzanne.

My feelings weren't hurt...I was just very surprised that you didn't find my contribution useful and misunderstood what I thought I clearly expressed.

You had already at the beginning of your first post expressed that you would understand if nobody wanted to contribute...I waited to see how things would develop and then added my bit and just thought it would throw some light on the questions you asked...I still think it has but I don't think you can see it.

[tsth]

I still think it has but I don't think you can see it. 

You're right, but, when I can sit back down and spend some time, I promise I will go back over your post and give it the consideration it deserves. I would want the same for my posts. Again, I'm truly sorry Botz.

In His Love,

Suzanne