Enoch2021 Posted February 24, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 11 Topic Count: 19 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,396 Content Per Day: 0.90 Reputation: 730 Days Won: 4 Joined: 12/21/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/26/1963 Author Share Posted February 24, 2014 This isn't worth getting emotional over. There is validity towards seeing God foreshadowing the cross, but trying to use this as a proof does not pass the test of nit-picky scrutiny. Skeptics didn't believe in Jesus when He raised the dead. Skeptics won't accept this either. If the horse wants to dehydrate, sometimes you just have to let him. ==================================================================================== This isn't worth getting emotional over. I wasn't. There is validity towards seeing God foreshadowing the cross, but trying to use this as a proof does not pass the test of nit-picky scrutiny. Please define this-----"the test of nit-picky scrutiny." How else would you Prove foreshadowing a CROSS without showing A CROSS that was foreshadowed? Skeptics didn't believe in Jesus when He raised the dead. Skeptics won't accept this either. So I should say nothing then and sit back in my easy chair? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LookingForAnswers Posted February 24, 2014 Group: Seeker Followers: 0 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,033 Content Per Day: 0.27 Reputation: 67 Days Won: 2 Joined: 12/26/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted February 24, 2014 There is no cross. Why must you continue this falsehood any longer? Your picture is false no matter what direction you fly in from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LookingForAnswers Posted February 24, 2014 Group: Seeker Followers: 0 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,033 Content Per Day: 0.27 Reputation: 67 Days Won: 2 Joined: 12/26/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted February 24, 2014 Great job LFA! OK, my perception is that there is a "cross" formation, but not exactly what a Roman execution cross would look like. In this regard, both sides to the argument have grounds for validity. One side can argue that the cross formation applies even though it is not to-scale to a real cross. The other side can argue that it needs to be to-scale (like the original diagram in question) shows) in order to be a valid symbol. Take your pick? OK, my perception is that there is a "cross" formation, but not exactly what a Roman execution cross would look like. huh? Now fly up out of the East. and....Whats up with the (Double/Triple the Width) Rectangle for the North/South Axis for the Levite Camp? Since this was a response to the picture in your OP the Levite camps were not included, just as they were not in your OP. ===================================================================== I am not going to redo the picture, but if you add in the levite camps the new lengths of each arm would be as follows: North 1/4 of a mile (24% of a mile) or 430 yards to the north South 2/5 of a mile (41% of a mile) or 727 yards to the south East 2/3 of a mile (64% of a mile) or 1126 yards to the east West 2/3 of a mile (64% of a mile) or 1136 yards to the west. Still nothing like the picture from the OP. Huh? Quibbling (Fallacy): http://www.iep.utm.edu/fallacy/#Quibbling Technically it's still not right, since we're only counting Soldiers...the family numbers aren't given. Proportionally, we're in the BallPark. Since this was a response to the picture in your OP the Levite camps were not included, just as they were not in your OP. None of the Camp (Names) were included in the OP just the TOTALS (see below) and No Numbers for the Levites.....Well, I really didn't think there would be an issue LOL. When there was an issue; I walked you through it...... through the Entire Thread. Still nothing like the picture from the OP. Huh? No nothing like it This is to Scale (see the tents?) except for the Levite Camp Numbers. And it sure isn't the Hyper-sided Rectangle off the Levite Numbers that you proffered. The East /West Axis starts @ the Bottom of the PIC. Moreover, Now fly over coming from the EAST.....this is what you would see :rolleyes: Why would we come from the East you may ask? Well...... The Entrance to the Tabernacle is on the East side. A little know fact..... Pagans (the official ones, another thread) when they worship...... stand facing to the East. Jewish Temples always face to the West. (Ezekiel 8:14-16) "Then he brought me to the door of the gate of the LORD'S house which was toward the north; and, behold, there sat women weeping for Tammuz. {15} Then said he unto me, Hast thou seen this, O son of man? turn thee yet again, and thou shalt see greater abominations than these. {16} And he brought me into the inner court of the LORD'S house, and, behold, at the door of the temple of the LORD, between the porch and the altar, were about five and twenty men, with their backs toward the temple of the LORD, and their faces toward the east; and they worshipped the sun toward the east." It's an Abomination to Face towards the East from a Worship standpoint....GOD prefers facing West when worshiping; Theretofore, coming from the East. I absolutely LOVE THE WORD!!! Every Place Name... every Jot and Tittle is placed by Careful Masterful Design!!!! Praise The LORD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ps. When was the Torah written? ..... 1200-1500 years Before Christ. GOD and GOD ALONE IS THE AUTHOR It's an Abomination to Face towards the East from a Worship standpoint....GOD prefers facing West when worshiping; Theretofore, coming from the East. So the Camp of Ephraim is in big trouble since they have no choice but to come from the west. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enoch2021 Posted February 24, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 11 Topic Count: 19 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,396 Content Per Day: 0.90 Reputation: 730 Days Won: 4 Joined: 12/21/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/26/1963 Author Share Posted February 24, 2014 I am not going to redo the picture, but if you add in the levite camps the new lengths of each arm would be as follows: North 1/4 of a mile (24% of a mile) or 430 yards to the north South 2/5 of a mile (41% of a mile) or 727 yards to the south East 2/3 of a mile (64% of a mile) or 1126 yards to the east West 2/3 of a mile (64% of a mile) or 1136 yards to the west. Still nothing like the picture from the OP. Is it legitimate to say that a cross formation does not prove that God wrote the book word for word? I am not here saying He didn't: I am only saying that proof that He did is most certainly NOT the supposed cross figuration of the camp. Early fathers saw crosses EVERYWHERE in the natural order: Irenaeus (I think) was obsessed with them. What does that prove? If two perpendicular lines were a unique arrangement in the universe then maybe this would mean ANYTHING. It means nothing. Suppose the camp were NOT arranged in such a fashion. Suppose the first line of Genesis admitted, by no formula whatsoever, Pi. Suppose nothing in the start of this thread occurred, would we then have to conclude that God did not write this word for word? My guess is Enoch would disagree--God wrote it, even if these claims are disproved, even if they were never there; and this means that NONE OF THIS MATTERS. Enoch begins with the assumption that God wrote the Bible Word for Word (or at least sections of it). He then looks for evidence for this. He loves numbers and science and the heart of the gospel (the cross). He finds them in the Bible by various designs and praises God for them. If they weren't there, he would still hold to the assumption that God wrote the Bible Word for Word. The codes and patterns did not lead Enoch to believe the Bible as written by God; his belief that the Bible was written verbatim by God led him to seek the numbers and patterns, or to accept them once found. And of course any pattern would do: he did not begin by saying, "okay, Lord, if the first line of Genesis admits Pi via THIS VERY SPECIFIC formula, then I will submit to its authority as YOUR WORD." He did not say, "Unless the formation of the camps as described in Numbers figure a cross, I will not accept Christ." He accepts God's Word: everything uncanny discovered afterwards takes on significance only afterwards. All "evidence" in this thread is superlative. Nothing depends on it; not only for all Christians present but for Enoch as well. It is a "cool" "coincidence". There is no point to this thread. I am sorry for being blunt. clb ================================================================================ Is it legitimate to say that a cross formation does not prove that God wrote the book word for word? I am not here saying He didn't: I am only saying that proof that He did is most certainly NOT the supposed cross figuration of the camp. Supposed Cross, eh? Look up Obtuse. Then why did he give the Exact Specifications in the WORD Then? Early fathers saw crosses EVERYWHERE in the natural order: So your somehow equivocating "Natural Crosses" and their occurrences with GODS exact Specifications/Instructions in HIS WORD? If two perpendicular lines were a unique arrangement in the universe then maybe this would mean ANYTHING. So GOD using the EXACT Specifications "In The WORD" for SAID CROSS using His People and The HOLY Tabernacle just so happened to be "coincidentally" the MOST ICONIC WORSHIPED IMAGE IN THE HISTORY OF THE UNIVERSE and the Source of our Salvation, 2000 Years beforehand. Scripture says not everything was written down.....why this in excruciating detail? Certainly not this.....(Proverbs 25:2) "It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter." Suppose the camp were NOT arranged in such a fashion. Suppose there were 3 toed fairies throwing Pixie dust in a Black Hole beyond the Crab Nebula. even if these claims are disproved, Good luck trying to disprove 1 + 1 = 2 and this means that NONE OF THIS MATTERS. Thanks for your opinion. Enoch begins with the assumption that God wrote the Bible Word for Word (or at least sections of it). He then looks for evidence for this. He loves numbers and science and the heart of the gospel (the cross). He finds them in the Bible by various designs and praises God for them. If they weren't there, he would still hold to the assumption that God wrote the Bible Word for Word. The codes and patterns did not lead Enoch to believe the Bible as written by God; his belief that the Bible was written verbatim by God led him to seek the numbers and patterns, or to accept them once found. And of course any pattern would do: he did not begin by saying, "okay, Lord, if the first line of Genesis admits Pi via THIS VERY SPECIFIC formula, then I will submit to its authority as YOUR WORD." He did not say, "Unless the formation of the camps as described in Numbers figure a cross, I will not accept Christ." He accepts God's Word: everything uncanny discovered afterwards takes on significance only afterwards. A couple of Minor Tweaks, But YES....I'd have to agree All "evidence" in this thread is superlative. Nothing depends on it; not only for all Christians present but for Enoch as well. It is a "cool" "coincidence". There is no point to this thread. I am sorry for being blunt. Thanks for your opinion again. At least it wasn't Deleted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enoch2021 Posted February 24, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 11 Topic Count: 19 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,396 Content Per Day: 0.90 Reputation: 730 Days Won: 4 Joined: 12/21/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/26/1963 Author Share Posted February 24, 2014 There is no cross. Why must you continue this falsehood any longer? Your picture is false no matter what direction you fly in from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LookingForAnswers Posted February 24, 2014 Group: Seeker Followers: 0 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,033 Content Per Day: 0.27 Reputation: 67 Days Won: 2 Joined: 12/26/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted February 24, 2014 So GOD using the EXACT Specifications "In The WORD" for SAID CROSS using His People and The HOLY Tabernacle just so happened to be "coincidentally" the MOST ICONIC WORSHIPED IMAGE IN THE HISTORY OF THE UNIVERSE and the Source of our Salvation, 2000 Years beforehand. Scripture says not everything was written down.....why this in excruciating detail? This is the most ICONIC WORSHIPED IMAGE...and it looks nothing like what is in Numbers 2. This has been proven, yet you still stick your head in the sand and go na na na na. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enoch2021 Posted February 24, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 11 Topic Count: 19 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,396 Content Per Day: 0.90 Reputation: 730 Days Won: 4 Joined: 12/21/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/26/1963 Author Share Posted February 24, 2014 Sometimes you don't have to do anything..... The self-inflicted wounds are the worst. Exponentially Stupefying pretty much sums it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LookingForAnswers Posted February 24, 2014 Group: Seeker Followers: 0 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,033 Content Per Day: 0.27 Reputation: 67 Days Won: 2 Joined: 12/26/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted February 24, 2014 I was thinking exponentially dishonest is a better fit for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnochBethany Posted February 24, 2014 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 1 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 649 Content Per Day: 0.17 Reputation: 99 Days Won: 3 Joined: 02/21/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted February 24, 2014 So GOD using the EXACT Specifications "In The WORD" for SAID CROSS using His People and The HOLY Tabernacle just so happened to be "coincidentally" the MOST ICONIC WORSHIPED IMAGE IN THE HISTORY OF THE UNIVERSE and the Source of our Salvation, 2000 Years beforehand. Scripture says not everything was written down.....why this in excruciating detail? This is the most ICONIC WORSHIPED IMAGE...and it looks nothing like what is in Numbers 2. This has been proven, yet you still stick your head in the sand and go na na na na. Where does the word "cross" occur in Numbers 2? Was crucifixion invented by 1500 BC? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enoch2021 Posted February 24, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 11 Topic Count: 19 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,396 Content Per Day: 0.90 Reputation: 730 Days Won: 4 Joined: 12/21/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/26/1963 Author Share Posted February 24, 2014 So GOD using the EXACT Specifications "In The WORD" for SAID CROSS using His People and The HOLY Tabernacle just so happened to be "coincidentally" the MOST ICONIC WORSHIPED IMAGE IN THE HISTORY OF THE UNIVERSE and the Source of our Salvation, 2000 Years beforehand. Scripture says not everything was written down.....why this in excruciating detail? This is the most ICONIC WORSHIPED IMAGE...and it looks nothing like what is in Numbers 2. This has been proven, yet you still stick your head in the sand and go na na na na. Where does the word "cross" occur in Numbers 2? Was crucifixion invented by 1500 BC? Hello, Please start with the OP and go through the Posts. If you have any questions after that....don't hesitate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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