Hindsfeet Posted April 2, 2014 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 9 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 201 Content Per Day: 0.05 Reputation: 49 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/16/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted April 2, 2014 Standing Ovation! What patience and insight!! Well Done! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mevosper Posted April 2, 2014 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 19 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 317 Content Per Day: 0.08 Reputation: 133 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/24/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted April 2, 2014 @Enoch2021 Thanks for your response. It's always good to learn, grow, teach and admonish each other in the Lord. Sometimes I can come across sarcastic and I apologize for that. Hope you will forgive me. I would like the chance to respond so please bear with me a bit on time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enoch2021 Posted April 2, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 11 Topic Count: 19 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,396 Content Per Day: 0.89 Reputation: 730 Days Won: 4 Joined: 12/21/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/26/1963 Share Posted April 2, 2014 @Enoch2021 Thanks for your response. It's always good to learn, grow, teach and admonish each other in the Lord. Sometimes I can come across sarcastic and I apologize for that. Hope you will forgive me. I would like the chance to respond so please bear with me a bit on time. I didn't find your comments sarcastic in the least and there is nothing wrong with being Skeptical because, HE admonishes... (1 Thessalonians 5:21) "Prove all things; hold fast that which is good." Hope it helps Praise The LORD!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atwood Posted April 2, 2014 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 7 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 285 Content Per Day: 0.08 Reputation: 61 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/30/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted April 2, 2014 It's not a theory, it's a fact. It will happen. Indeed, while Christians argue over whether the Rapture comes before or after the Tribulation, the fact of it should not be in debate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enoch2021 Posted April 3, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 11 Topic Count: 19 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,396 Content Per Day: 0.89 Reputation: 730 Days Won: 4 Joined: 12/21/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/26/1963 Share Posted April 3, 2014 @Enoch2021 Thanks for your response. It's always good to learn, grow, teach and admonish each other in the Lord. Sometimes I can come across sarcastic and I apologize for that. Hope you will forgive me. I would like the chance to respond so please bear with me a bit on time. =========================================================================== Hey mev, When you get some time review this: And let me expand Briefly on a few Very Key Patterns. Everything from Revelation Chapter 4 onward is "Heavily Jewish". The First 3 Chapters are dealing with the 7 Churches....more on these in a moment. This is very interesting and to drive home the Point. Jesus has, by my count, 24 Titles in the First 3 Chapters ......NONE Are Jewish. Every Title from Chapter 4 on ................................................................................................................................ALL Are Jewish. The 7 Churches: These were Literal Churches in Asia Minor (Western Turkey). There were Hundreds of Churches when John was receiving this.....why these Seven? Do you think the LORD picked them Arbitrarily? Yea, Me Neither If they would be in any other order it wouldn't make sense but in this order they line up perfectly....with Church History: 1. Ephesus---------------> The Apostolic Church 2. Smyrna------------------> The Persecuted Church 3. Pergamos --------------> The Married Church 4. Thyatira -----------------> The Medieval Church (This one will Ruffle some Feathers) 5. Sardis--------------------> The Denominational Church 6. Philadelphia-------------> Missionary Church 7. Laodicea-----------------> Apostate Church The first 3 have the Promises POST-Scripted in the Letter. The Last 4 have The Promises in the Body of the Letter AND Specific References to the Second Coming. Thyatira is Promised, if it doesn't Repent, it will go into GREAT TRIBULATION... (Revelation 2:22) " Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds." Philadelphia is Promised Not to.... (Revelation 3:10) " Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth." The Seven Lampstands: John is on the Earth in Chapter 1... (Revelation 1:20) " The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches." John is in Heaven in Chapter 4.... (Revelation 4:5) "And out of the throne proceeded lightnings and thunderings and voices: and there were seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God." The 24 Elders: - Identified as the Redeemed (Rev 5: 9,10) - only three are Identified as Kings and Priests (Melchizedek, Jesus, and the Redeemed......US ) - They worship the Lamb before he receives the Scroll - Tribulation begins when the Scroll is Unsealed (1 Peter 2:9) "But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:" ****(Revelation 1:4-6) "John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne; {5} And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood, {6} And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen." ***(Revelation 5:8-10) "And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints. {9} And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; {10} And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth." (Revelation 4:4) "And round about the throne were four and twenty seats: and upon the seats I saw four and twenty elders sitting, clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads crowns of gold." Crowns in NT (2 Tim 4:8, 1 Peter 5:4, 1 Cor 9:25, 1 Thess 2:19) Hope this Helps Praise The LORD!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enoch2021 Posted April 3, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 11 Topic Count: 19 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,396 Content Per Day: 0.89 Reputation: 730 Days Won: 4 Joined: 12/21/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/26/1963 Share Posted April 3, 2014 There is enough evidence in this particular thread to make one question the rapture teaching. Some questions that may enter one's mind regarding the rapture may be: What is it? How does it work? Where does scripture support it? Why is it just a relatively recent teaching, especially when Christ tells his disciples they have been "...given unto (them) to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven" (Matt 13:11) and then tells them to write about the mystries (Matt 13:52)? But then they never expand on what would be the most glorious miracle of all! Millions of people being zapped away instantly. Why would Christ bring my soul back to Earth from paradise, glorious heaven (assuming one's soul goes to heaven when they die) just to re-animate my body? Wasn't Christ a physical being when he was taken up in the cloud after his resurrection? What about the souls that came back just after his resurrection? Was that the first resurrection, or just a trial run (Matt 27:52, 53)? But those questions may lead one to the question: What really happens to one when they die? That gets pretty deep and difficult to contemplate. Very few have the patience to work through that piece of meat and the final answer becomes, which some are happy with: Well, God has it all under control (which He does). And finally the grand question of them all: Do I need to know this to get into Heaven? If someone can answer that last question, then I will finally have an answer for my daughter's question: Why do I have to take algebra in school? I'll never use it! So please, maybe someone has some real biblical truth as to why the rapture is "a fact". All Glory to The God Of Heaven and Earth!!! ====================================================================== I would also like to touch on this for some Perspective..... Do I need to know this to get into Heaven? And it's quite Sobering: Can you tell me why Jerusalem was destroyed in 70 AD? What did Christ say..... (Luke 19:41-44) "And when he was come near, he beheld the city, and wept over it, {42} Saying, If thou hadst known, even thou, at least in this thy day, the things which belong unto thy peace! but now they are hid from thine eyes. {43} For the days shall come upon thee, that thine enemies shall cast a trench about thee, and compass thee round, and keep thee in on every side, {44} And shall lay thee even with the ground, and thy children within thee; and they shall not leave in thee one stone upon another; because thou knewest not the time of thy visitation." He Held them accountable for KNOWING SCRIPTURE AND PROPHECY. Which Specifically... (Zechariah 9:9) "Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion; shout, O daughter of Jerusalem: behold, thy King cometh unto thee: he is just, and having salvation; lowly, and riding upon an ass, and upon a colt the foal of an ass." and..... (Daniel 9:25) "Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times." That's a Math Statement ( "from" and "unto"). The Angel Gabriel predicted Christ's Triumphal Entry to the EXACT DAY!!! Jesus held them Accountable!!! (2 Timothy 2:15) "Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth." Gives a Whole New Meaning to Bible Study Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Babbler Posted April 4, 2014 Group: Senior Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 72 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 550 Content Per Day: 0.10 Reputation: 82 Days Won: 2 Joined: 11/08/2009 Status: Offline Share Posted April 4, 2014 Never going to win this argument concerning the rapture. Apparently the words of Christ bear little weight on the many interpretations. He said everybody will see his coming. Then you have those who believe in Christ coming as a thief and stealing his people away even though it has been made clear that the thief comes to slaughter and destroy. The term is even used as a threat against the Pergamum church in Revelation; not any rescuing rapture. Imagine that you have a large family gathering and the kids are playing in the back room. One kid comes out and reports that two kids are coloring on the walls. Do the parents grab the good kids first or the kids coloring. The Messiah has made it clear who will be gathered first. " I will order the harvesters to first collect all the weeds and bundle them up, then gather the wheat in my barn." (Matt. 13:47) Many take Daniel, an apocalyptic letter written in 164 BC which was a message to the Jews at that time and they misapply it as a future event, Likewise, Revelation, another apocalyptic letter and written to the Christian church in first century AD is misapplied to future dates. During the collection of the weeds, those sealed to Christ will be watching. They will witness the annihilation performed by Christ's angels as they gather the wicked. "Very soon there will be no wicked man; look where he was, he's not there." Psalm 32:10 Yeshua's people are the last to be gathered because, "....This was to make known the riches of his glory to the vessels of his mercy" (Rom. 9:22) Soon people will be mocking Christianity due to the rapture millennial teaching. "Where is that promised coming of his?" Many Tribbers have also taken prophecies concerning the second temple and try to apply them to Israel's 1948 statehood. They consider this is the budding of the branches when the budding was the early church during the first century. They say that within a generation of Israel's statehood the end time prophecies will be fulfilled. The year is 2014 and it has been 66 years since Israel's statehood, Like Charles Taze Russell of the Jehovah Witnesses, Tribbers now must change their timeline. I have always been one to believe that a generation was 40 years. Israel wandered how long in the desert? Some now say a generation may be 70 years or 120. If that be the case then only 4 years left for the 70 year calculation. That now leaves the 120 year timeline--2068. Never going to happen! I doubt if we will see Our Lord's second advent this century. The Lawless One must come into power first and the mass apostasy must occur first. (2 Thess 2) I also conjecture that the world's environmental problems will continue to degrade and the collapse of the thermohaline circuit will occur which will enhance the people's willingness to accept the Lawless One's dominion. "Therefore the land mourns, and everything that dwells in it languishes, the beasts of the field, the birds of the air, and even the fish of the sea perish." (Hos. 4:3) Raise your eyes to the heavens, and look at the earth below, Though the heavens grow thin (ozone hole is down 4%) like smoke, the earth wears out like a garment and its inhabitants die like flies, My salvation shall remain forever (Isaiah 51:6) Meantime, lets do our job and build up the kingdom of God. Get those angels dancing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enoch2021 Posted April 4, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 11 Topic Count: 19 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,396 Content Per Day: 0.89 Reputation: 730 Days Won: 4 Joined: 12/21/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/26/1963 Share Posted April 4, 2014 ======================================================================== Just a few.... Never going to win this argument concerning the rapture. There is no winning, This isn't a game. We are searching for TRUTH! . Apparently the words of Christ bear little weight on the many interpretations. He said everybody will see his coming. Bear little weight?? All I'm using is Scripture (The WORD OF GOD)-------------> Jesus He said everybody will see his coming. Yes "All Eyes" will, @ HIS Second Coming. Irrelevant to the Rapture coming as a thief and stealing his people away even though it has been made clear that the thief comes to slaughter and destroy. Jesus is not a thief !!!! (1 Thessalonians 5:2) "For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night." The "as" is a Simile (Figure of Speech). It's describing the "UN-EXPECTANCY" and "Stealthness". " I will order the harvesters to first collect all the weeds and bundle them up, then gather the wheat in my barn." (Matt. 13:47) This is a Parable...in a Gospel that is "Heavily Jewish". Matthew speaks nothing of "The Church" Also where did you get this Matthew 13:47 Passage?? My Bible says.... (Matthew 13:47-48) "Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a net, that was cast into the sea, and gathered of every kind: {48} Which, when it was full, they drew to shore, and sat down, and gathered the good into vessels, but cast the bad away." Many take Daniel, an apocalyptic letter written in 164 BC which was a message to the Jews at that time and they misapply it as a future event BABBLER.... First, Daniel is not a Letter it's a BOOK!! Second, How could it have been written in 164 BC when it was apart of the Septuagint (LXX) commissioned by Ptolemy of Philadelphus in 280 BC?? Likewise, Revelation, another apocalyptic letter and written to the Christian church in first century AD is misapplied to future dates. Hogwash!!! (Revelation 1:3) "Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand." (Revelation 1:19) " Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter;" Can you show where any of these events occurred in the First Century?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Babbler Posted April 4, 2014 Group: Senior Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 72 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 550 Content Per Day: 0.10 Reputation: 82 Days Won: 2 Joined: 11/08/2009 Status: Offline Share Posted April 4, 2014 Actually the second half of the book was added during the Maccabean period when Antiochus the fourth (the little horn) persecuted the Jews Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enoch2021 Posted April 4, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 11 Topic Count: 19 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,396 Content Per Day: 0.89 Reputation: 730 Days Won: 4 Joined: 12/21/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/26/1963 Share Posted April 4, 2014 Actually the second half of the book was added during the Maccabean period when Antiochus the fourth (the little horn) persecuted the Jews Actually it wasn't. Those are just atheists sites attacking the Book of Daniel (Especially over the last few years) because they have to get Daniel out of there.....Cause it's GAME OVER for them!!!.......and they know it lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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