LookingForAnswers Posted March 27, 2014 Group: Seeker Followers: 0 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,033 Content Per Day: 0.27 Reputation: 67 Days Won: 2 Joined: 12/26/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted March 27, 2014 For Trusting GOD @ HIS WORD. I don't need any pity, but thanks you trust your understanding, not God's word. It's the Opposite, I will never walk away because of the FAITH.....SUBSTANCE you dont have faith, you have what you think is proof. 30 pieces of Silver. 30 pieces of Silver is enough to overcome proof that Jesus was GOD? That is some very weak proof. It also shows the danger of having faith in your proof vice having faith in God. There is a lesson you need to learn here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enoch2021 Posted March 27, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 11 Topic Count: 19 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,396 Content Per Day: 0.90 Reputation: 730 Days Won: 4 Joined: 12/21/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/26/1963 Author Share Posted March 27, 2014 LookingForAnswers - To have proof you need evidence. If you have enough evidence then you have proof. Here is the best definition defining evidence and proof – “Proof is the final verdict that removes all doubts whereas evidence only leads one in the direction of a fact or statement.”As for Peter: JerryR34 captures it right – “Peter seeing Jesus standing on the water was not proof he, Peter, could walk on water - it was proof Jesus could. It still required faith to step out of the boat.” Further, the passage offers us now absolutely no proof, then even after this incident Peter denies Jesus. The desire for "proof" when it comes to God and faith is an example of relying on one's own understand instead of trusting in God. Some people cannot let go of themselves and allow God to be in control, they have to work it all out for themselves in their heads. These are the people that you see on fire for the Lord one day and gone the next. ============================================================================ The desire for "proof" when it comes to God and faith is an example of relying on one's own understand instead of trusting in God. GOD said it the "Proof" was Obvious and Invisible.... (Romans 1:20) "For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:" JerryR34 captures it right – “Peter seeing Jesus standing on the water was not proof he, Peter, could walk on water - it was proof Jesus could. It still required faith to step out of the boat.” Great you finally understood it. Peter still needed Faith with the PROOF. In other words.....MY WHOLE POSITION----------PROOF DOESN'T PRECLUDE FAITH. The Point isn't THE PROOF that Peter need to Walk on the WATER. The "Proof" is that Peter and the rest of the Apostles Knew @ THAT TIME HE WAS THE SON OF GOD.....so Peter then exercised HIS FAITH BASED ON SUBSTANCE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LookingForAnswers Posted March 27, 2014 Group: Seeker Followers: 0 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,033 Content Per Day: 0.27 Reputation: 67 Days Won: 2 Joined: 12/26/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted March 27, 2014 (edited) Great you finally understood it. Peter still needed Faith with the PROOF. But he didn't have proof that he could do it, all he had proof of was the Jesus could do it. So, without PROOF, just on FAITH Peter stepped out of the boat. The Point isn't THE PROOF that Peter need to Walk on the WATER. The "Proof" is that Peter and the rest of the Apostles Knew @ THAT TIME HE WAS THE SON OF GOD.....so Peter then exercised HIS FAITH BASED ON SUBSTANCE. why then did Judas betray Jesus? Why then did Peter deny Jesus 3 times? Why then did all but one disciple hide when Jesus was crucified? Why then did Thomas need more "proof" What sort of "proof" is so weak that it is forgotten in a moment? If you have PROOF, why would you need FAITH? If I tell you that I am going to bring you a cupcake you can have faith that I am going to do it, once I do it you now have proof and no longer need faith that I will. If you turn the key to start your car you have faith that it will actually start, once it starts you no longer need faith that it will. If you send a letter to your mother you can have faith it will make it to her. Once it does, you no longer need faith that it will. there is no room for faith once the proof takes over. Edited March 27, 2014 by LookingForAnswers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enoch2021 Posted March 27, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 11 Topic Count: 19 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,396 Content Per Day: 0.90 Reputation: 730 Days Won: 4 Joined: 12/21/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/26/1963 Author Share Posted March 27, 2014 =============================================================== you trust your understanding, not God's word. Nope, I trust these.... (Romans 1:20) "For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:" And Faith/Substance so I won't be whipped around by "Every Wind Of Doctrine" that has it's basis in "Blind Faith". you dont have faith, you have what you think is proof. Attention to Detail. I don't have "Blind Faith" 30 pieces of Silver is enough to overcome proof that Jesus was GOD? That is some very weak proof. Naaa, I call it Greed and satan. Who knows what he was thinking. Also, are you saying that just because Judas betrayed Christ for 30 pieces of Silver that somehow diminishes Christ Walking on Water?? It also shows the danger of having faith in your proof vice having faith in God. So you propose "Blind Faith"? I knew that was your position all along. You even said it by proxy more than a few times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LookingForAnswers Posted March 27, 2014 Group: Seeker Followers: 0 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,033 Content Per Day: 0.27 Reputation: 67 Days Won: 2 Joined: 12/26/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted March 27, 2014 And Faith/Substance so I won't be whipped around by "Every Wind Of Doctrine" that has it's basis in "Blind Faith". you mean like serpents that are really not serpents? Attention to Detail. I don't have "Blind Faith" nobody is talking about blind faith. Naaa, I call it Greed and satan. Who knows what he was thinking. Also, are you saying that just because Judas betrayed Christ for 30 pieces of Silver that somehow diminishes Christ Walking on Water? I am saying that Jesus walking on the water was not as big a deal for the disciples as you make it out to be based on their actions following that event. So you propose "Blind Faith"? I knew that was your position all along. You even said it by proxy more than a few times. More lies from the lost. I have said multiple times that faith takes over where evidence leave off. This is not a blind faith, it is a faith built on evidence. But with faith there is always a point where the evidence stops and faith takes over. Peter was this way, he had evidence but it still took faith to step out of the boat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enoch2021 Posted March 27, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 11 Topic Count: 19 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,396 Content Per Day: 0.90 Reputation: 730 Days Won: 4 Joined: 12/21/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/26/1963 Author Share Posted March 27, 2014 ===================================================================== But he didn't have proof that he could do it, all he had proof of was the Jesus could do it. So, without PROOF, just on FAITH Peter stepped out of the boat. Wow. Just on Faith Peter stepped out of the Boat, eh? Was Jesus there?.... Standing/Walking on the Water? Or did Peter try this before Christ, just on a Whim? why then did Judas betray Jesus? Why then did Peter deny Jesus 3 times? Why then did all but one disciple hide when Jesus was crucified? Why then did Thomas need more "proof" What sort of "proof" is so weak that it is forgotten in a moment? Lack of Faith....People do strange things. And again, are you trying to somehow belittle the feat of Walking on Water?.....see what your position comes to? Your evaluating the Draw Dropping Feat of Walking on Water based on 3rd, 4th, and 5th order effects of peoples actions/motivations. If you have PROOF, why would you need FAITH? Blind Faith .....again there is no room for faith once the proof takes over. Peter had the Proof, Right in front of Him. But he sank......Jesus said, (Matthew 14:31) "And immediately Jesus stretched forth his hand, and caught him, and said unto him, O thou of little faith, wherefore didst thou doubt?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LookingForAnswers Posted March 27, 2014 Group: Seeker Followers: 0 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,033 Content Per Day: 0.27 Reputation: 67 Days Won: 2 Joined: 12/26/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted March 27, 2014 Peter had the Proof, Right in front of Him. But he sank......Jesus said, (Matthew 14:31) "And immediately Jesus stretched forth his hand, and caught him, and said unto him, O thou of little faith, wherefore didst thou doubt?" proof removes doubt, you cannot have proof and doubt, that would be an oxymoron. you again are your arguments own worst enemy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LookingForAnswers Posted March 27, 2014 Group: Seeker Followers: 0 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,033 Content Per Day: 0.27 Reputation: 67 Days Won: 2 Joined: 12/26/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted March 27, 2014 well this has been fun, time to head off to sleep. I have faith I will wake up in the morning... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enoch2021 Posted March 27, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 11 Topic Count: 19 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,396 Content Per Day: 0.90 Reputation: 730 Days Won: 4 Joined: 12/21/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/26/1963 Author Share Posted March 27, 2014 ================================================================== proof removes doubt, Proof removes doubt, eh? Except for Peter, Right? Are you still saying Standing/Walking on Water is not a Proof of Jesus being the Creator of The Universe? And, There you go again basing the Veracity/Legitimacy of a Proof based on somebody's actions. How about the Moon Landings? There are Sects that don't believe it with plenty of "Proof".... following your logic then, we should start to doubt the veracity of the Moon Landing Claim? you cannot have proof and doubt, What in the World are you talking about? You're conflating and mixing up the issue. Peter didn't "doubt" Christ was Standing/Walking on the Water....he (Peter) lost "FAITH" and "DOUBTED" his own personal ability to appropriate it, with the PROOF of Jesus standing in front of him....on the Water. you again are your arguments own worst enemy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LookingForAnswers Posted March 27, 2014 Group: Seeker Followers: 0 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,033 Content Per Day: 0.27 Reputation: 67 Days Won: 2 Joined: 12/26/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted March 27, 2014 Proof removes doubt, eh? Except for Peter, Right? Are you still saying Standing/Walking on Water is not a Proof of Jesus being the Creator of The Universe? Of course that is not proof that Jesus is the Creator of The Universe. Do not think that Satan could walk on the water? Satan was able to duplicate some of the miracles that Moses preformed using the power of Satan. Is turning water to blood any less impressive than walking on water? We are told in 2 Thessalonians and in Revelation that the Anti-Christ will preform miracle like those that Jesus did. Those that need such proofs as you demand will be the people that will be deceived by the Anti-Christ. Will these miracles by the Anti-Christ be proof that he is the creator of the universe? Will you make the same argument for the anti-Christ? What in the World are you talking about? You're conflating and mixing up the issue. Peter didn't "doubt" Christ was Standing/Walking on the Water....he (Peter) lost "FAITH" and "DOUBTED" his own personal ability to appropriate it, with the PROOF of Jesus standing in front of him....on the Water. you are right, he didn't doubt that Jesus was standing on the water, but he did doubt Jesus' ability to make it so he could walk on the water. If this was proof that Jesus was the creator of the universe, why would he doubt that Jesus could do such a thing. Clearly there was no proof. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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