Is there a universal moral law?

[Macs Son]

The Bible says we all have a moral compass and St. Paul implies God is behind that conscience, whether saved or unsaved.

“Love” is something we can all understand and relate to. We can sense Godly love and right and wrong for God is not far from anyone of us. St Paul also taught this in Acts 17:23-28, as he spoke at a gathering of Philosophers at Athens who had gathered together to hear his dissertation on the one they only knew as the “unknown God”:

Therefore, the One whom you worship without knowing, Him I proclaim to you: God, who made the world and everything in it, since He is Lord of heaven and earth, does not dwell in temples made with hands. Nor is He worshiped with men’s hands, as though He needed anything, since He gives life to all of us, including breath, and all things. And He (God) has made from one blood every nation of men to dwell on all the face of the earth, and has determined their pre-appointed times and the boundaries of their dwellings, so that they should seek the Lord, in the hope that they might grope for Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us; for in Him we live and move and have our being.

If we are being driven in our conscience by Him who we actually exist and live in and have our breathe and being so that we might seek Him out then conscience is a God given blessing to every man, women and child - no doubt about it.

In Christ, Pat

Edited June 22, 2014 by Macs Son

[please_pray_for_me]

I have never seen any convincing case for a "Universal Moral Law" and the fact that people disagree about pretty much everything, minus a few basic ideas, seems to me to suggest that morality is largely impressed on us by society, for better or worse. That said, clearly there are physical laws in the Universe that have constructed an environment for us to live in which we can thrive, pursue creative projects, experience health, happiness, and joy, revel in the relationships with our fellow humans, etc...and then there is the other end of the spectrum, where people live in constant fear and paranoia, of their safety, their reputations, their ability to trust their closest friends, etc...and it's pretty obvious which scenario most people would prefer. Hence, in that sense, morality is universal.

[Guest]

....morality is universal....

 

 

Sin

 

Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: Romans 5:12

 

Is Universal

 

Of sin, because they believe not on me; John 16:9

 

Graciousness

 

Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.

 

But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

 

That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust. Matthew 5:43-45

 

Is God Given

 

We love him, because he first loved us. 1 John 4:19

[Macs Son]

I have never seen any convincing case for a "Universal Moral Law" and the fact that people disagree about pretty much everything, minus a few basic ideas, seems to me to suggest that morality is largely impressed on us by society, for better or worse. That said, clearly there are physical laws in the Universe that have constructed an environment for us to live in which we can thrive, pursue creative projects, experience health, happiness, and joy, revel in the relationships with our fellow humans, etc...and then there is the other end of the spectrum, where people live in constant fear and paranoia, of their safety, their reputations, their ability to trust their closest friends, etc...and it's pretty obvious which scenario most people would prefer. Hence, in that sense, morality is universal.

Hi pickup_shonuff,

You say you have never seen any convincing case for a universal moral law. Do you ever feel offended if someone rips you off or tells lies about you, or trashes your family o does physical harm to them without cause? Is it really because the culture has impressed these things upon you that you feel they are wrong or does it come from within? Then there is the clear evidence that every culture has a set of laws that protect us from stealing, cheating, false witness, murder, etc. When these laws are transgressed and culture in driven into anarchy we are not only greatly offended in conscience but rise up to restore order, as they did in World War II to stop Hitler and all his madness. We certainly can be given over to a reprobate mind if we ignore our moral compass but clearly there is evidence for a universal moral code. I think if you look a little deeper you'll find that conscience is universal to humanity but that humans can choose to become brute beasts with seared consciences as well. Just my two cents worth.

In Christ, Pat

[jerryR34]

 

Proof is never "deduced."   Proof is observed and is self-evident. 

 

A forensic crime investigator can deduce how a person died at a crime scene,  but can never prove it because they didn't witness the person's death.  

 

If you were accused of a crime you did not commit based on eye-witness testimony, but that accusation could be overturned by scientific evidence what would you choose?  Thought so….

[Guest]

Proof is never "deduced."   Proof is observed and is self-evident. 

 

A forensic crime investigator can deduce how a person died at a crime scene,  but can never prove it because they didn't witness the person's death. 

 

If you were accused of a crime you did not commit based on eye-witness testimony, but that accusation could be overturned by scientific evidence what would you choose?  Thought so….

 

~

 

Some Eye-Witness Testimonies

 

And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ: Ephesians 3:9

 

Are More Believable

 

And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day. Genesis 1:31

 

Than Others

 

Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Genesis 3:1(a-c )

 

And Saying The Devil Science Made Me Mock The LORD Jesus

 

Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created. Revelation 4:11

 

Just Will Not Cut It

 

Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost. 1 Corinthians 12:3

 

For Me

 

Thy word is true from the beginning: and every one of thy righteous judgments endureth for ever. Psalms 119:160

 

You See

 

Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: Romans 5:12

[jerryR34]

 

Proof is never "deduced."   Proof is observed and is self-evident. 

 

A forensic crime investigator can deduce how a person died at a crime scene,  but can never prove it because they didn't witness the person's death. 

 

If you were accused of a crime you did not commit based on eye-witness testimony, but that accusation could be overturned by scientific evidence what would you choose?  Thought so….

 

~

 

Some Eye-Witnesses

 

And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ: Ephesians 3:9

 

Are More Believable

 

And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day. Genesis 1:31

 

Than Others

 

Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Genesis 3:1(a-c )

 

And Saying The Devil Science Made Me Mock The LORD Jesus

 

Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created. Revelation 4:11

 

(For Me) Will Not Cut It I Think

 

Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost. 1 Corinthians 12:3

 

You think that science is "The Devil"?  Best get off that computer...  

[Guest]

You think that science is "The Devil"?  Best get off that computer...

 

 

Although You May Think Science Excuses Your Unbelief In The Bible

 

And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day. Genesis 1:31

 

And Gave You The Computer, Life, The Universe And Everything

 

And that ye study to be quiet, and to do your own business, and to work with your own hands, as we commanded you; 1 Thessalonians 4:11

 

Most Real Engineers And Tinkerers Had No Need Of Scientism

 

O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called: 1 Timothy 6:20

 

Nor Of It's Zealotry For The Mocking Of The Power Of The Christ Of The Holy Bible

 

And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands: Hebrews 1:10

 

Yet These "Ignoramus" Mostly Unnamed Geniuses Seem To Have Somehow Invented

Most Of All Of The Tools Used To Make The Wonderful Tools And Toys

Used By Both Scientists And The Ditch Digger,

The Neighborhood Tax Collector,

Mothers, Plumbers, Paupers,

Farmers And The Baker

 

How holes made patterned silks and talked to computers …

 

At the turn of the nineteenth century, a Frenchman, Joseph Marie Jacquard, began to tinker with various textile design inventions which had been developed by other Frenchmen in the previous century. Jacquard’s father had left him his textile looms and workshop when he had died many years before, though Jacquard had squandered his assets. By 1800, he was trying to find new methods of weaving which might improve his fortunes. By 1801, Jacquard felt he had an invention ready to be seen and exhibited at that year’s industrial exhibition in Paris, which was sponsored by the French government. Within a couple of years, he was invited to join the Conservatoire National des Arts et Métiers (the French Conservatory of Arts and Crafts), which was based in Paris. While studying the collections of the Conservatoire in Paris, he came across a textile loom which had been designed by Jacques de Vaucanson, whose bequest had led to the founding of the institution. Vaucanson’s loom design gave Jacquard new ideas on how to improve his own loom. The perfected Jacquard loom used a series of cards, each punched with a pattern of holes, which were strung together in a particular order. This set of punched cards was then able to control the pattern woven into the cloth. The holes and solid spaces in the cards functioned rather like binary code, controlling the hooks which raise and lower the warp threads of the cloth, by determining whether each warp hook should be up or down for that pass of the shuttle. Thus, the holes in the cards informed the loom as to whether the weft threads would pass over or under a given warp thread as the weaving progressed. With this system, complex and intricate patterns could be quickly and easily woven into hundreds of yards of silk damasks and brocades. New patterns could be just as easily woven on the same loom by simply changing out the punch-card set. http://regencyredingote.wordpress.com/2011/06/10/silk-to-silicon-how-french-weaving-created-computer-commands/

 

Too

 

Have ye not known? have ye not heard? hath it not been told you from the beginning? have ye not understood from the foundations of the earth? It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in: Isaiah 40:21-22

 

~

 

However, Idols (Demons) Never Did Do Any Fellow Much Good

 

And the Philistines took the ark of God, and brought it from Eben-ezer unto Ashdod.

 

When the Philistines took the ark of God, they brought it into the house of Dagon, and set it by Dagon.

 

And when they of Ashdod arose early on the morrow, behold, Dagon was fallen upon his face to the earth before the ark of the LORD. And they took Dagon, and set him in his place again.

 

And when they arose early on the morrow morning, behold, Dagon was fallen upon his face to the ground before the ark of the LORD; and the head of Dagon and both the palms of his hands were cut off upon the threshold; only the stump of Dagon was left to him. 1 Samuel 5:1-4

 

I Compute

 

[Paradox]

The moral law is based on the functions necessary for life.

 

These are physical functions, without them there is no life.

 

The most obvious "thou shalt not kill."

 

Because these laws are paramount, God put them in our minds in the beginning. They were instinctive to us.

 

Then we sinned and lost our sensibilities and capabilities to be righteous.

 

Which can be restored, by faith alone in the Creator Jesus Christ, as you all know.

 

It is interesting that the universe, and all the physical laws that govern it, are based on moral law - which spell out FAIRNESS to all.

 

Things like balance, harmony, rest, variety, predictability, generosity, etc these are moral.

 

Unfortunately, our world has seen many paths of connectivity to life broken down, and so all of nature "travails and awaits liberation."

[enoob57]

The moral law is based on the functions necessary for life.

 

These are physical functions, without them there is no life.

 

The most obvious "thou shalt not kill."

 

Because these laws are paramount, God put them in our minds in the beginning. They were instinctive to us.

 

Then we sinned and lost our sensibilities and capabilities to be righteous.

 

Which can be restored, by faith alone in the Creator Jesus Christ, as you all know.

 

It is interesting that the universe, and all the physical laws that govern it, are based on moral law - which spell out FAIRNESS to all.

 

Things like balance, harmony, rest, variety, predictability, generosity, etc these are moral.

 

Unfortunately, our world has seen many paths of connectivity to life broken down, and so all of nature "travails and awaits liberation."

I would like to take this post a little farther in that The Work of God is to give us

through His Word a reality not of this world's direction but of the one that will be!

So that we can in belief formed from that Word live in light of that coming reality and

begin to, without fear, live unswayed to this present system's influence... this produces

in us a freedom from concerns of first birth totalities... We become consumed with the

need of God's Person being glorified for the simple reason He 'IS' Who He 'IS' and He

has accomplished this freedom in the s(S)piritual eating and drinking of His Word unto

life that will not pass away but increase into The Lord Jesus' Presence... Love, Steven