nebula Posted March 22, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.76 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.95 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted March 22, 2014 Nebula - Firstly, do you beleive the claims that Obama has trampled the Constituion to be false? If you could point to an example perhaps I could respond. Trampled is extreme, he has not “trampled” the constitution any more than past presidents such as Bush and Reagan. I see much of it as merely right wing posturing. As noted in a previous set of posts the charge of President Obama being a “traitor” appears to me to be baseless and false. The underlined part is a link to a search that brings up many items to choose from on the matter: "Firstly, do you beleive the claims that Obama has trampled the Constituion to be false?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebula Posted March 22, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.76 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.95 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted March 22, 2014 Second, if your desire is to turn their criticism in a way more antithetical to Christian behavior and speach, you need to address this specificaly, presenting examples of how to do so (not saying you have to agree with the statement, just show how it should be done), you might find better success at results. Defending Obama as you have will not accomplish this. I’m afraid I am not sure what you mean here. My point was that criticism of the President should not be Antithetical to Christian behavior and speech.., I don't see where hate speech is a Christian virtue. (Also, false accusations would come under the same banner) You and I seem to be capable of discussing issues, though we disagree, without resorting to inflammatory jabs and retorts. As in the other posts I can state my thoughts/opinions without resorting to such additions as ...”if you believe that you are either stupid, a liar, or a moron”, or name calling. I try and offer opinion with support for why I take the position that I do, as I trust others would also. Defending Obama as you have will not accomplish this. Again, I am unsure what you mean. I am not attempting to convince or persuade anyone other than to show that there are two sides to the issue. The facts speak for themselves, I do not pretend to know the heart of anyone. (1 Sam. 16:7) When Obama is called a socialist I am simply pointing out, by evidence, that then Reagan should have been termed a socialist. That was supported by proof of Reagan's tax raises, push to raise taxes on the wealthy, etc., one can choose to disregard the facts. One may continue to call him a socialist but they do so with no justification that I can see. The whole issue with Obama being a traitor is pure nonsense and I was more then willing to provide support. Bias is an extremely strong force in our lives ..... Is it a false accusation if you believe the accusation to be true? The "socialist" claims are not about the raising of taxes. I don't have the time and energy to try to debate this point with you, though. What I'm trying to explain to you is that if you want change, griping about how people here speak about Obama isn't going to influence change. Not acknowledging the concerns people have will not provoke them to listen to you; rather, it will have the opposite effect. Leading by example is the only effective means of making a change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tolken Posted March 22, 2014 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 405 Content Per Day: 0.11 Reputation: 98 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/27/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted March 22, 2014 (edited) "Firstly, do you beleive the claims that Obama has trampled the Constituion to be false?" No, although trampled is an extreme word used with purposeful intent. My further answer you will not like but I will once again raise it. Why is Obama being singled out as if Bush, Reagan, Nixon, and all the way back to Lincoln not relevant...because it is history? Obama should be judged in the same way that other Presidents have been judged is all that I am suggesting. Should Obama be held accountable absolutely, however why haven’t other Presidents been held accountable? So it would seem to me that precedent enables no action other then correction. Is it a false accusation if you believe the accusation to be true? Yes, truth is not based on intent but fact. If I truly believe that a certain person is guilty of a crime and it proves to be untrue...it would still have been false accusation. On the other hand, time can also show that an accusation initially deemed false can come to light as true, it works both ways. The "socialist" claims are not about the raising of taxes. I don't have the time and energy to try to debate this point with you, though. But that is the point, what policies invoke the title “socialist”? (And yes, at a point it is draining and time consuming.) Not acknowledging the concerns people have will not provoke them to listen to you; rather, it will have the opposite effect. Leading by example is the only effective means of making a change. In another thread I was challenged on a particular point but rather then respond with the requisite arguments I suggested the person look into the articles of a number of people holding that view. The point being that I am not going to defend a position in which I am adamantly opposed, Atheistic in that case. On the other hand I will selectively defend a position in which I believe one side or another is unfairly castigated. And will also contend that if Obama is the worst President we’ve had than the republican led house of reps is the worst we’ve ever had. So I defended Bush and Iraq against my more left leaning friends/board patrons up until 2005 or 2006 when the facts determined that the war was entered on unsubstantiated and false information. As I mentioned bias is a very strong force and it took quite an enormous effort to change my thoughts on Bush/Iraq. I am not arrogant enough to think that I can change people’s minds...but I simply will inject my thoughts into the conversation. How does one lead by example in such circumstance other than to raise another perspective? I simply believe that in many areas and with many issues things aren’t strictly black and white. Edited March 22, 2014 by Tolken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love is alive Posted April 1, 2014 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 22 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 325 Content Per Day: 0.06 Reputation: 81 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/22/2010 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/03/1966 Author Share Posted April 1, 2014 it's my understanding when some of the hpuse members questioned him about what laws he was not Inforcing he told them to either impeach him or get out of his way. That does not surprise me in the least, that has been his attitude all along. It's his way or you can take the highway, he is going to do what ever he wants to whenever he wants to and doesn't care who likes it or doesn't like it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love is alive Posted April 1, 2014 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 22 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 325 Content Per Day: 0.06 Reputation: 81 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/22/2010 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/03/1966 Author Share Posted April 1, 2014 Nebula - I can't speak for everyone, but I know my feelings of disdain are magnified because of this "Obama worship" from the left. I don’t see where President Obama has made such effort or endorsed this worship? We, I will include myself, often place people we greatly admire on a pedestal, ignoring the shortcomings and focusing only on the positives, I think it is a quite “human” trait. But do you have an objection to politics being expressed on a Christian message board in a section reserved for such? No, not at all, however, I do think President Obama is unfairly demonized. I truly believe that much of the “scandals”, calls for impeachment, and termed as traitor are simply biased hate, and upon closer inspection amount to pure partisanship. I also think that the republican house is equally responsible for the current malaise. If one chooses to criticize President Obama then they should do so in a manner not antithetical to Christian behavior and speech. I haven’t witnessed such behavior on Worthy. Change that "will" to "is" and I agree. If you don't see the evidence of such, I wonder how you could be seeing things from a neutral perspective? If one is going to accuse President Obama of socialism than by the same rational they should also place former President Reagan under the same umbrella. Reagan raised taxes, drove up the deficit, and pushed for increased taxes on the wealthy. As a matter of fact at the time the tax rate was considerably higher...tax rates are presently lower. One also can’t deny that Reagan has been virtually a “god” to many republicans, so to an extent there is worship involved. As I believe I noted in a previous post I have a number of issues with President Obama that I have clearly expressed through my reps and elsewhere. Though I would suggest that is quite common...”can’t please all the people all the time”... but I do express my opinions to the “powers that be”. *For whatever reason this thread is on the second page, and the last noted post is March 18 by Other One? Probably why I was late with this.............. Blessings obama is not being unfairly demonized! Everything that he has done has been to undermine our country's economical stability, hurt the american people, and trample the constitution at every turn. He doesn't enforce existing laws and in some cases prosecutes those who do their jobs enforcing those laws. You have the right to your opinion, that is a given. We all have a right to our opinion. While it remains to be seen as to wheither history tells the truth about his administration and his term in the white house, it is evident by looking at his record what the truth is. It is your right to ignore those whom you feel are "demonizing" obama. However, you should really research the actions in which he has taken and a true record of what he has done since being in his current position as "president" (and i use the term loosely), before defending him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tolken Posted April 1, 2014 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 405 Content Per Day: 0.11 Reputation: 98 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/27/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted April 1, 2014 (edited) Love is Alive - obama is not being unfairly demonized! Everything that he has done has been to undermine our country's economical stability, hurt the american people, and trample the constitution at every turn. Yes, he really is as anyone who peruses discussions boards will come to realize. What is President Obama a totalitarian, a Marxist, a Socialist, a Communist...can't be all of these disparate political philosophies, so which one? Undermine the country's economic stability, exactly how? You do realize that congress has a role in all of this don't you? Please, look up republican obstructionism on any search engine. So tell me how these two facts impact this country" 1. The single most important thing we want to achieve is for President Obama to be a one-term president. -Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell, quoted in National Journal, November 4, 2010 2. "During a lengthy discussion, the senior GOP members worked out a plan to repeatedly block Obama over the coming four years to try to ensure he would not be re-elected." "On the more immediate future, they discussed targets such as Charlie Rangel, chairman of the House ways and means committee, who Gingrich said was vulnerable over his personal taxes. They would also target Treasury secretary Tim Geithner, demonstrate united and unyielding opposition to the president's economic policies, and release negative ads against vulnerable Democratic members of Congress." http://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/apr/26/democrats-gop-plot-obstruct-obama This has been admitted to by Gingrich, proudly, and you are going to blame President Obama for a republican party that sought only to obstruct and thwart any efforts to bring us out of the worst recession since the 1930's, and the same for anything he proposes? This was in 2009......... Look at what one of the same republicans said prior to Obama” Paul Ryan – (2002) "What we're trying to accomplish today with the passage of this third stimulus package is to create jobs and help the unemployed,” “What we're trying to accomplish is to pass the kinds of legislation that when they've passed in the past have grown the economy and gotten people back to work.” “In recessions unemployment lags on well after a recovery has taken place." So the Truth is that the republicans planned a strategy to totally block President Obama from virtually doing anything but what they had to give in to. You of course won't see this information on fox news, or limbaugh, or coming from hannity, or o'rielly, or any right wing blog but even Gingrich admits this planning took place. f you would like I will post more links on this subject from even former Reagan officials. So let us not forget the “do-nothing” republican led house...least amount of bills passed since 1947. Edited April 1, 2014 by Tolken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atwood Posted April 1, 2014 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 7 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 285 Content Per Day: 0.08 Reputation: 61 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/30/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted April 1, 2014 Is he not very much an internationalist? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted April 1, 2014 Share Posted April 1, 2014 I am always amazed at the fact that no matter how big of a liar Obama is, there are some people who are so devoted to him and will defend him no matter what. The brainwashing of the Left is unbelievable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tolken Posted April 1, 2014 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 405 Content Per Day: 0.11 Reputation: 98 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/27/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted April 1, 2014 Shiloh357 - I am always amazed at the fact that no matter how big of a liar Obama is, there are some people who are so devoted to him and will defend him no matter what. The brainwashing of the Left is unbelievable. I'm always amazed that so many people are so blind to what is going on within the republican party. It also amazes me that the republican party has proved itself to place America down the list of priorities. It amazes me that so many rank and file repubs choose to be oblivious to the truth. If one has evidence that the "planning" meeting did not occur, that Gingrich did not confirm that it did, that mcconnell did not make such a statement, that Ryan and many other repubs didn't support the stimulus and bills under Obama that they did under Bush, that they have in general obstructed in many areas of government ... then please post your evidence. If you would like more information on this please let me know................. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love is alive Posted April 2, 2014 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 22 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 325 Content Per Day: 0.06 Reputation: 81 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/22/2010 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/03/1966 Author Share Posted April 2, 2014 other one - nuts bolts But as you can see the story concerning the internet "giveaway" is false... So, if the news media on major news networks don't mention it ...it is then automatically false? They cover for obama all the time, truly news worthy events may get 15 secs. or they may not be reported on by them at all. Wake up!! There are alot of internet media sites that do still hold to the journalistic creed, which by the way, it something that the major television networks stops upholding long ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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