THE RESTRAINER

[ARGOSY]

I beleive the restrainer is Michael the archangel as described in Daniel 12:1-2

 

1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

² And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

 

In what manner is Michael removed in Rev 12. The only entity I see being removed in Rev 12 is Satan, who is removed from his heavenly location, and thrown down to earth.

[OneLight]

They lost their place in heaven and lost a battle. And Satan was cast down to earth. Its the moment of casting down to earth that I equate with Satan being taken out of the way. In his heavenly place he was in the way, accusing the brethren, then the church overcomes him by preaching the word to all nations (our testimony) and Satan is removed. Because he is removed he comes to earth in full wrath and is EXPOSED, his pawn the antichrist is REVEALED. This occurs for 3.5 years, a huge clue that we are referring to the tribulation period, which is known in 2 Thessalonians 2 as a short period of Satan's deception on earth. Bingo! we have a match!

 

Satan was removed from the pretense of God, not from all of heaven. IF what you say is true, then the following scripture would have to be a lie.

 

Ephesians 6:10-13

Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord and in the power of His might. Put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places. Therefore take up the whole armor of God, that you may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.

 

The Greek word for what is called "heavenly places" is ἐπουράνιος - epouranios (G2032) which basically means:

• existing in heaven
  • things that take place in heaven
  • the heavenly regions
    • heaven itself, the abode of God and angels
    • the lower heavens, of the stars
    • the heavens, of the clouds
  • the heavenly temple or sanctuary
• of heavenly origin or nature

I suggest that the heavenly places are the lower heavens, or the clouds above the earth. Still, they have not lost their place in the heavens, as the word states, just the heavenly temple or sanctuary - the presence of God.

 

Now we have a match!

 

Onelight, you have made this point already about Satan being in heavenly places, and I agreed with you, so I don't know why you are bringing it up again when we have already discussed this. Yes I completely agree that Satan is currently in heavenly places. Yet Rev 12 clearly says that in the future he will be removed from that place by the church, for 3.5 years of wrath on earth. So I am in no manner whatsoever contradicting Ephesians 6. But you seem to be contradicting Rev 12 , when you insisted in an earlier post that Satan goes directly from heavenly places to the bottomless pit at the second coming. 

 

The correct order of events are:

1) currently in heavenly places (as per your Ephesians 6 quote)

2) the church overcomes him, and the archangel Michael throws him down to earth, he loses his heavenly place (Rev 12)

3)  3.5 years of wrath on earth (Rev 12)

4) the second coming and Satan is thrown into the pit for 1000 years.

Sorry, but I didn't see where you agreed with what I had posted. All I read is that we still see this differently, since you had stated he was thrown down to the earth and had lost his heavenly place. If I missed a post, please accept my apology.

[Enoch2021]

 

 

 

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So you are arguing from "intuition" that the antichrist is revealed 3.5 years earlier at the peace treaty,

 

No I'm arguing from Daniel 9:27...

 

(Daniel 9:27) "And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate."

 

For "he" to Confirm a Covenant "he" has to be "revealed", it's kind of a Prerequisite.....unless he does it via ESP.

 

 

when 2 Thess 2 says he is revealed when he declares himself a god,

 

For the What, 50th Time?? .......

 

(2 Thessalonians 2:7-8) "For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.  {8} And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:"

 

 

This is the reason I find it difficult to discuss these biblical issues with you. You seem to regard your preconceived/taught doctrine as superior to the actual word of God.

 

How do you know it's preconceived?...Special Mind Powers?  Then you have the Audacity and Hubris, after your thesis of the Second Coming in Rev Chapter 6 between the 6th and 7th Seals no less, to superimpose your contrived baseless conclusions that result in "my doctrine" as superior to The WORD ??  This Thread along with the 3 others in this forum "Reveal" the exact opposite.

 

 

As for the decree, some regard the decree as that of Artaxerxes in 458BC.

 

And I've already explained this to you as a lack of attention to detail.  But never mind that, right? ....don't let the facts get in the way of what you or other people believe.

 

 

Let the scriptures take preference, not our personal doctrines.

 

It's not a "Personal Doctrine"...it's just common sense.  (SEE: ESP above)

[Enoch2021]

I beleive the restrainer is Michael the archangel as described in Daniel 12:1-2

 

1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

² And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

 

 

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Michael is a Military Commander/Warrior always in Defense of Israel.   The "thy people" is Daniels people....Israel.

 

Show one Scripture where Michael and "The Church" are mentioned together?

 

From the substance of this and other of your posts, it appears you're having difficulty distinguishing between Israel and "The Church".  They have different Origins and Different Destinies.

[Matt36]

 

I beleive the restrainer is Michael the archangel as described in Daniel 12:1-2

 

1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

² And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

 

In what manner is Michael removed in Rev 12. The only entity I see being removed in Rev 12 is Satan, who is removed from his heavenly location, and thrown down to earth.

 

Well i beleive that Michael will do his thing in Rev 8 not 12. Tho it is not mentioned he does so, thats the time that the rapture happens and the Day of the Lord starts. To understand this more see my commints in the post tribbers please explain section

 

 

Edited April 19, 2014 by Matt36

[Matt36]

 

I beleive the restrainer is Michael the archangel as described in Daniel 12:1-2

 

1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

² And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

 

 

=====================================================================

 

Michael is a Military Commander/Warrior always in Defense of Israel.   The "thy people" is Daniels people....Israel.

 

Show one Scripture where Michael and "The Church" are mentioned together?

 

From the substance of this and other of your posts, it appears you're having difficulty distinguishing between Israel and "The Church".  They have different Origins and Different Destinies.

 

Enoch, your answer is right there in the verses i mentioned......and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: I guess this is the Day of the Lord hence its happen in the end of the CHURCH AGE and the beggining of the Day of the Lord.

 

If you are suggesting Michael ONLY EXCLUSIVELY serves Israel then i find that a little difficult.

[Enoch2021]

 

 

 

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Enoch, your answer is right there in the verses i mentioned.....

 

No it isn't,

 

(Daniel 12:1) "And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book."

 

As I said,  "Great Prince" that standeth for "thy people" = Daniel's People = Israel.  Daniel or Gabriel wouldn't be talking about the Church because...The Church was a Mystery until Paul revealed it in Ephesians Chapter 3.

 

And that time of trouble he's referring to is the Time of Jacob's Trouble....

 

(Jeremiah 30:7) "Alas! for that day is great, so that none is like it: it is even the time of Jacob's trouble; but he shall be saved out of it."

 

If you are suggesting Michael ONLY EXCLUSIVELY serves Israel then i find that a little difficult.

 

I'm sure Michael has other duties but that's a Guess....His Main Mission is in Defense of Israel and Scripture bears that out.   "The Church" is not one of his missions as the two are not mentioned together in any capacity in Scripture @ all.....Zero. 

 

Any duties other than a Military Commander/Warrior for Israel is Absolute Blind Speculation.

[Matt36]

 

 

 

 

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Enoch, your answer is right there in the verses i mentioned.....

 

No it isn't,

 

(Daniel 12:1) "And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book."

 

As I said,  "Great Prince" that standeth for "thy people" = Daniel's People = Israel.  Daniel or Gabriel wouldn't be talking about the Church because...The Church was a Mystery until Paul revealed it in Ephesians Chapter 3.

 

And that time of trouble he's referring to is the Time of Jacob's Trouble....

 

(Jeremiah 30:7) "Alas! for that day is great, so that none is like it: it is even the time of Jacob's trouble; but he shall be saved out of it."

 

If you are suggesting Michael ONLY EXCLUSIVELY serves Israel then i find that a little difficult.

 

I'm sure Michael has other duties but that's a Guess....His Main Mission is in Defense of Israel and Scripture bears that out.   "The Church" is not one of his missions as the two are not mentioned together in any capacity in Scripture @ all.....Zero. 

 

Any duties other than a Military Commander/Warrior for Israel is Absolute Blind Speculation. What do you think happens after the restrainer lifts his restraining? He allows satan to do his thing and stops inhibiting him.

Last time i checked Israel is right there at the tribulation.

[Enoch2021]

 

 

 

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What do you think happens after the restrainer lifts his restraining?

 

After the Rapture ("Restrainer" is taken out of the way)......."That Wicked" is revealed.

 

(2 Thessalonians 2:7-8) "For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.  {8} And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:"

 

 

Last time i checked Israel is right there at the tribulation.

 

And, So........? 

 

They should be since that's the Main Point of "Great Tribulation":

 

(Hosea 5:15) "I will go and return to my place, till they acknowledge their offence, and seek my face: in their affliction they will seek me early."

 

Michael is not some Rogue Archangel that does what he wants..... GOD'S in Control.  And from the Passage above, it appears GOD has a Purpose.

[Matt36]

 

 

 

 

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What do you think happens after the restrainer lifts his restraining?

 

After the Rapture ("Restrainer" is taken out of the way)......."That Wicked" is revealed.

 

(2 Thessalonians 2:7-8) "For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.  {8} And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:"

 

 

Last time i checked Israel is right there at the tribulation.

 

And, So........? 

 

They should be since that's the Main Point of "Great Tribulation":

 

(Hosea 5:15) "I will go and return to my place, till they acknowledge their offence, and seek my face: in their affliction they will seek me early."

 

Michael is not some Rogue Archangel that does what he wants..... GOD'S in Control.  And from the Passage above, it appears GOD has a Purpose.

 

You are free to beleive as you like Enoch. But you havnt shown me anything solid that shows my context as incorrect. In fact, you tend to back me up without realising it, especially on the other thread. You really need to start listening to God and not what religion has been teaching you. I also beleived what you beleived untill the holy spirit showed me while actually reading the bible that i was wrong.