Post Tribbers - Please explain

[Hindsfeet]

How is Rev 13 After his revealing? It is a snapshot of the beast, from beginning rise to power to the implementation of the mark. It specifically stresses 'whos deadly wound was healed' - Rev13:3&12 - That to me sounds like anyone would be able to recognize him by this event, which happens Prior to the AoD. I'm just wondering what scripture it is that makes the AoD the actual revealing, please.

[Matt36]

How is Rev 13 After his revealing? It is a snapshot of the beast, from beginning rise to power to the implementation of the mark. It specifically stresses 'whos deadly wound was healed' - Rev13:3&12 - That to me sounds like anyone would be able to recognize him by this event, which happens Prior to the AoD. I'm just wondering what scripture it is that makes the AoD the actual revealing, please.

 Hi Hindsfeet,

 

Im of the view that the revealing takes place 3 and a half years into the tribulation.

 

Dan 9:27 "And he shall make a firm covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease; and upon the wing of abominations shall come one that maketh desolate; and even unto the full end, and that determined, shall wrath be poured out upon the desolate."

 

The anti christ being revealed must precede the Day of the Lord.

 

 2 Thess2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

² That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

³ Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

⁴ Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

 

And the Day of the Lord starts at the 7th seal in chapter 8

 

Chapter 13 is way off past this time.

 

Matt:)

Edited April 23, 2014 by Matt36

[Enoch2021]

 

 

 

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OK, so i guess we can take this subject up again as you have mentioned it again. Just be aware that im only discussing this and i and not looking for a fight nor to get personal.

 

You started getting "personal" with (Your "advice" and Your "take") from your initial replies.  I admonished you concerning those comments and drove on.  You are forgiven 

 

 

The bone of contention:

 

Dan12 :1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

 

Now in the other thread you said that this verse didnt even apply to the end times.

 

Strawman,  I never said that. 

 

Specifically, I said that Daniel Chapter 11:1-34 was referring to the First Abomination of Desolation Antiochus IV (Epiphanes) with a pretty good accounting of the struggles with the Ptolemaic and Seleucid Empires in the context of that Chapter.  From verse 35 on....there is some overlap between the "TYPE" of ac (Antiochus IV) and the Real ac.  Daniel Chapter 12 is an account of the real ac. 

 

 

The context of thess is jacobs trouble shown here, 2 thess2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.  3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; ....7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. 

 

So we clearly see that the restrainer is NOT taken away untill AFTER the man of sin is revealed which happens mid point in the trib.

2. "and at that time thy people shall be delivered," and so they are during Jacobs trouble.

 

You are not rightly dividing The WORD as I have mention numerous times.  Daniel is speaking of "His" People------------Israel.  2 Thess is speaking to "The Church".   Daniel couldn't speak to "The Church" because The "Mystery' wouldn't be "revealed" until Eph 3.   Also, please review 2 Thess 2:3-9 it clearly shows the "he" is removed (Holy Spirit), THEN that Wicked is Revealed.

 

Also please review "Falling Away" (Apostasia) and what it may mean: 

 

And it's not mid-point of "tribulation" it's mid Daniel's 70th Week.  Only the Last Half of that week is Great Tribulation.

 

"Jacobs Trouble" is referring to Israel sir, not the Church.

 

 

You said that the restrainer restrains satan, I also agree. But what is satan doing during the tribulation?  Rev 12:12 Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

 

One would think he would need restraining at one point, especially Rev 12:7 7

 

 

Why?  "He" (The Restrainer) Left with "The Church" prior to Daniel's 70th Week.  There is no more "Restraining" needed.  Why would the Holy Spirit be restraining GOD'S WRATH?

 

And this "satan's Wrath" thing is getting on my last nerve.  satan can do nothing without GOD letting him do it or empowering him to accomplish GOD'S Purpose!!  The Great Tribulation is GOD'S Wrath the Whole Book of Revelation is GOD'S Wrath.

 

 

No, again your english translation is incorrect. Ill explain it again and ill try to be a little clearer as i wasnt that clear last time. [ ] here is the proper text:

 

Rev 5:9 And they sang a new song , saying, “ Worthy are you to take  the scroll and to open its seals, for you were slain, and by your blood you ransomed people for God from every language, people, and nation. (Mounce Reverse-Interlinear New Testament)

 

The word FOR that is in bold in the verse the greek word is Ho. The english translation has it as "us" but that is incorrect. Here is the meaning of "Ho", ὁ δέ," the one ... the other, some ... others, but he, but others". Now-where in the greek does it mean "US".

 

My AKJV is spot on!!

 

(Revelation 5:9) "And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;"

 

Firstly,  the word "for" isn't in contention??    The word "us" is (in your mind).  And it's "hemas" Strong's # 2248....it means "Us"

 

Second and more importantly....What Codices is the Interlinear using? If it's part of The Westcott and Hort ensemble, you have Major Problems (See here): 

 

 

Im not sure what to say here Enoch except to say you just backed up my comments 100% that the tribulation starts with the ac making an agreement with Israel and many!

 

So if the ac confirms a covenant for 7 years isnt this the beginning of the 7th week? I mean its 7 years right? Therefore this event MUST take place at the very beginning before the seals start. How else you you fit 7 years into 7 years?

 

 

Hardly.  I refuted your "Tribulation" starts with Confirming the Covenant.  There is no "Tribulation"....there's only "Great Tribulation" (Matthew 21) and that starts @ the Abomination of Desolation.

 

The ac confirms a covenant @ the beginning of Daniel's 70th Week.  In the Midst of that week the Abomination of Desolation takes place which Starts the Great Tribulation.

 

Nowhere in Scripture does it say "Tribulation" starts @ the beginning of that 70th Week (Confirming the Covenant).  Just commentaries and clumsy Exegesis that arbitrarily assigns the first 3 1/2 years to "Tribulation" (They made it up).

 

Also Scripture says by "Peace" he shall destroy many....

 

(Daniel 8:25) "And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand."

 

 

GOD'S WORD is very Precise......it would behoove you to treat it accordingly.  Stop listening to what others "say" GOD'S WORD Says and search it yourself to confirm or refute what "others" say

 

Now this is the part where we differ.

 

Matt24:16-21 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:  17  Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:  18  Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.  19  And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!  20  But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:  21  For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be."

 

The context of the timing of these verses are after the anti christ is revealed and we know from Dan 9:27 that its in the midst of the week that therefore these events are AFTER the mid point of the tribulation. These verses DO NOT allude to a rapture but rather it is talking to Israel to flee into the mountains because great tribulation is about to start. So since these events take place after the mid point we should be able to find these events in Revelation, and indeed we do: Rev 12:6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

So your versus just prove my case and your verses also self interpret that they are not rapture verses.

 

 

You're not Rightly Dividing The WORD.  Nowhere in these Passages is it describing "The Church" or "The Rapture".  These are describing Israels Plight.

 

The Idiom of the Woman in Revelation 12 is Israel.  See Josephs Dream in Genesis 37: 9-11.

 

Because while yes they are tribulation saints after all the rapture is after the mid point so yes they would be tribulation saints. If you got raptured after the mid point wouldnt that make you a tribulation saint Enoch??

 

This is a Logical Fallacy: Affirming The Consequent:

 

If the Rapture is after the midpoint then we would observe Saints after the midpoint.

 

If P then Q.

Q.

Therefore P.

 

First you must prove "The Rapture" is after the "Mid-Point".  More Importantly........Tribulation Saints are not "The Church".

 

 

God doesnt pour out his wrath on the church. thats why my view is named PRE_WRATH. The purpose is multiperpose and takes too long to list and explain.

 

GOD's Wrath is being poured out @ the Opening of the Seals.....@ the Latest the 6th Seal, because he says so:

 

(Revelation 6:12-16) "And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;  {13} And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.  {14} And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.  {15} And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;  {16} And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:"

 

You say your view is "Pre-Wrath" but then say The Tribulation Saints are the Raptured in Rev 7:14    And they came out of Great Tribulation....

 

(Revelation 7:14) "And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb."

 

How can they come "out of Wrath" and be Pre-Wrath??

 

Also, Please show me Jesus coming in the Clouds with the Trump of GOD in Revelation 7?

 

The Purpose of Great Tribulation is.....  (Hosea 5:15) "I will go and return to my place, till they acknowledge their offence, and seek my face: in their affliction they will seek me early."

 

Well i should be the one asking that question Enoch and i will, Can you show me in the "Original Texts",  where it says "Harpazo" ?? Or show the LORD "Coming in the Clouds" and the "Trump of GOD" before the tribulation starts?

 

It's Right here (and it Pre-70th Week of Daniel).....

 

(1 Thessalonians 4:16-17) "For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:  {17} Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord."

 

(2 Thessalonians 2:5-8) "Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?  {6} And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.  {7} For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.  {8} And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:"

 

caught up = "harpazo"

 

"The Church" = The 24 Elders, and they are already in Heaven in Chapter 4 when John arrives.

 

Where is this event in Revelation?  Well, it's not.....Therefore, it had to happen before.  What's not said is sometimes just as important as what is said.

 

But in answer to your question, YES i can but its in rev 6 during the 6th seal, not 7.

 

Obviously the Day of the Lord ends at Armageddon. Its time period is some time after the mid point of the 70th week and continues until Armageddon is over.

 

You have obviously moved past your previous thought of "the day of the LORD" as 5 Months?

 

So the Day of the LORD is not a Specific Day it's a Time Period?  Probably The Great Tribulation in TOTO?  I can live with that.

 

I suppose I'm splitting hairs but Armageddon is a staging area, where the ac armies launch there attack on the believing Jewish Remnant.  The Lord Returns to Bozrah-----Petra Today:

 

(Isaiah 63:1-6) "Who is this that cometh from Edom, with dyed garments from Bozrah? this that is glorious in his apparel, travelling in the greatness of his strength? I that speak in righteousness, mighty to save.  {2} Wherefore art thou red in thine apparel, and thy garments like him that treadeth in the winefat?  {3} I have trodden the winepress alone; and of the people there was none with me: for I will tread them in mine anger, and trample them in my fury; and their blood shall be sprinkled upon my garments, and I will stain all my raiment.  {4} For the day of vengeance is in mine heart, and the year of my redeemed is come.  {5} And I looked, and there was none to help; and I wondered that there was none to uphold: therefore mine own arm brought salvation unto me; and my fury, it upheld me.  {6} And I will tread down the people in mine anger, and make them drunk in my fury, and I will bring down their strength to the earth."

 

and Marries up with....

 

(Revelation 19:15-16) "And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.  {16} And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS."

 

 

Note, fulness of the Gentiles. This was my context, the fullness of the gentiles comes in at Rev 10,

 

Rev10:7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

 

So we see Enoch that the fullness of the gentiles is completed in Rev 10 when it says, the mystery of God should be finished. This gets in the way of your pre tribulation rapture doesnt it. Because you beleive the rapture finished the times of the church, but not so.

 

 

What in the World is This?

 

As I said, You're Equivocating (Fallacy): The "Mystery of GOD" in Rev 10 with the "Mystery of Israel's Blindness" in Romans. 

 

As I said, The Mystery is Israel's Blindness..... and the Mystery was revealed in the same Passage Romans 11:25.  To arbitrarily relate the two above is sloppy Exegesis @ best and incoherent @ worst.

 

In effect, you're saying: the "Mystery of GOD" in TOTO  = The "Mystery of the Fullness of the Gentiles"  

 

The only thing that this gets in the way of is Pedestrian Exegesis.

[Enoch2021]

 

Oh,

 

Got another surprise for those who pretend that 2 Thess 2: 4-12 doesn't exist. 

 

(2 Thessalonians 2:3) "Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;"

 

Falling Away = Apostasia

 

 

Exactly as i said Enoch.

 

The Apostasia must take place BEFORE the man of sin is revealed.

 

As the man of sin isnt revealed until the mid point of the tribulation it happened i believe when the saints are suffering the wrath of satan, hunger, pestilence, heat and most of all martyrdom.

 

Martyrdom will cause many to question their faith. Especially when many beleived the rapture was imminent and pre tribulational. When they find out it isnt and they are to face certain death or take the mark, many fall away and follow the "craft" that the anti christ causes to prosper.

 

So again, you seem to continually back me up. Thus i believe that you dont really have a good grasp on what the pre wrath view actually holds to. This is why i recommended you watch my video.

 

^matt24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.

⁵ For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many. And that includes the antichrist

 

 

 

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This is quite humerous....

 

Exactly as i said Enoch.

 

The Apostasia must take place BEFORE the man of sin is revealed.

 

Of course you cut off the rest of what Apostasia meant lol....allow me to repost what you accidentally on purpose left out:

 

Apostasia (greek)

 

Summary of the ways in which Apostasia signifies Rapture in 2 Thess 2.

  

1.   The parallel between verse 3 and 7-8, showing the antichrist is revealed after the rapture.

2.   Words With Similar Definitions: methormizô, remove from one anchorage to another

3.   Words With Similar Definitions: metex-anistamai, Pass., move from one place to another

4.   Apostasia is translated as "Dissecto" in Latin, which has a meaning of a "spacial departure".

5.   Apostasia is translated as "departure" in many Bibles.

6 .  Liddell and Scott Dictionary authors note Apostasia is translated as "spacial departure" in one case in the 6th century.

7.   metatithemi, used for Enoch's rapture, and apostasia both mean "to fall away"

8.   metatithemi, used for Enoch's rapture, and apostasia both mean "to depart"

9.   metatithemi, used for Enoch's rapture, and apostasia both signify "change" as the rapture is a change.

10. metathesis, used for Enoch's rapture, and apostasia both (in the word it's derrived from, aphistemi) can both mean "to remove".

11. laqach, used for Enoch's rapture, and harpazo (rapture in 1 Thess 4:17), can both mean "to take"

12. laqach, used for Enoch's rapture, and harpazo, can both mean "to seize"

13. laqach, used for Enoch's rapture, and harpazo, can both mean "to snatch away"

14. laqach, used for Enoch's rapture, also carries the meaning "to marry, take a wife" which is a strong rapture parallel

15. Apostasia and harpazo both carry connotations of violence.  Apostaisia a violent revolt & rebellion, and harpazo "to seize by force" John 6:15

16 .Harpazo, like metathesis and aphistemi--root of apostasia, mean "to remove"

17. Harpazo is used in a peculiar way to signify "falling away from the faith" in Matthew 13:19, which is the main definition of apostasia.

18. The play on words of "stand in, present" enistemi and "stand off, absent" aphistemi, shows that apostasia, which comes from aphistemi, signifies the rapture, when people will be "absent".

19. ginomai, the word for "taken" (out of the way) in verse 7, the parallel of apostasia in verse 3, means "be married to" and the rapture is the marriage.

20. ginomai, the word for "taken" (out of the way) in verse 7, the parallel of apostasia in verse 3, means "to arise" and the rapture is when we rise up.

21. ginomai, the word for "taken" (out of the way) in verse 7, the parallel of apostasia in verse 3, signifies "of miracles" and the rapture will be a miracle.

22. Apostasia, as rapture, is fully consistent with apostasia as religious rebellion, and it is not an either/or definition or option, the word means both.

23. Those who say the pre trib rapture is false doctrine (an apostasy) unwittingly confirm that apostasia signifies rapture.

 

 

However, I really don't even need the above as proof of the "Restrainer" (Holy Spirit)/The Church) being removed before that wicked is "revealed", just the rest of 2 Thess 2 with the details:

 

(2 Thessalonians 2:7-9) "For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.  {8} And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:  {9} Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,"

 

The "he" is the Holy Spirit....

 

For him ("That Wicked") to be revealed, the "RESTRAINER" must be removed!! The "Restrainer" is The Holy Spirit and was given to the Body of Christ after Christ left.

 

(John 14:16) " And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;"

 

(John 14:26) " But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you."

 

(John 16:7) " Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you."

 

Jesus had to Leave for the "Comforter to Come".  Who did he give it to......"The Church", FOREVER!  It appears from John, that they (Jesus and the Comforter) can't be physically on the Earth @ the same time.  Which Strongly implies that The Holy Spirit Must be Removed before Christ's Physical Return.

 

There is absolutely NO WAY the Comforter/RESTRAINER LEAVES THE CHURCH......He's the embodiment of it !!!!!!

GOD alone "Restrains" evil, PERIOD, End of Story.  Read JOB for a full demonstration of that very fact.

 

 

As the man of sin isnt revealed until the mid point of the tribulation

 

Please Provide Scripture Support for this, Specifically?

 

Daniel says....

 

(Daniel 9:27) "And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate."

 

Are you saying he (the ac) confirms a covenant in "secret" or via ESP?  His "revealing" (To anyone who ever read Dan 9:27) is Confirming a Covenant!!  I find it hard to believe that the ac, aka (Mister Big Mouth, in many Scriptures) does this secretly.....and probably one of the Main Reason people follow him.

 

 

So again, you seem to continually back me up.

 

Only when you cutoff my posts.

 

 

Thus i believe that you dont really have a good grasp on what the pre wrath view actually holds to.

 

It's a convoluted, self contradicting view that I summarily refuted a number of times with the latest in the previous post, it goes exactly like this:

 

You say your view is "Pre-Wrath" but then say The Tribulation Saints are the Raptured in Rev 7:14    And they came out of Great Tribulation....

 

(Revelation 7:14) "And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb."

 

How can they come "out of Wrath" and be Pre-Wrath??

 

Also, Please show me Jesus coming in the Clouds with the Trump of GOD in Revelation 7?

[Enoch2021]

 

 

I believe the book of matthew while written to the church is for both jew and gentile with a gentile perspective.

 

You've Identified the Problem....."I believe".  If you start out with "I can Prove" or "Scripture Clearly Shows" or "Scripture tells us"..... then that forces you to Support what you say.

 

 

Well i did prove it. Thanks for your reply but its not exactly something that is solid.

 

I mean if only matthew mentions the church by name then that kinda PROVES it. Especially when Luke backs up Matt24 as not being written to the jews.

 

Its open and shut proof. I wont answer your comments because i just dont think anything you said holds much water bro. Sorry about that. Im just sayin ok

 

 

 

 

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Any comments on the rest of the systematic refutation of your entire post??, found here: 

 

 

Thanks for your reply but its not exactly something that is solid.

 

ahhh yes, the Generalized Unsupported Assertion.  What Specifically, isn't "solid" (See link just above)

 

 

I mean if only matthew mentions the church by name then that kinda PROVES it

 

See above refutation of "that PROVES it"  (in the same link above).

 

And "Matthew" doesn't mention "The Church"...."Christ", in Matthew's Account, "Mentions" it.  And by "Mentioning" that is to say, just saying the word "Church".

 

 

Especially when Luke backs up Matt24 as not being written to the jews.

 

Really, How so?

 

 

Its open and shut proof.

 

Heavy on the Adjectives.....left wanting for the "so called" proof.  Again (SEE: link above)

 

 

I wont answer your comments because i just dont think anything you said holds much water bro.

 

More like "can't" than "won't" or you already would have done it.

 

So you feign some sort of "Generalized" exasperation then superimpose, without any justification whatsoever, a conjured trivial-ness to my points to then summarily dismiss?

 

In other Words, to "say" something doesn't hold much water and to "Show" something doesn't hold much water, are two entirely different animals.

 

As I said when we first started down this path......Support what you say sir.

 

I'm sitting here in Missouri......you need to "Show" me.

 

(1 Thessalonians 5:21) "Prove all things; hold fast that which is good."

 

Your "I just don't think"....are just "empty words".

[Enoch2021]

Couldnt the AC also be Revealed (apocalypto - G601) prior to the AoD by the deadly head wound that was healed?

Why does the AoD Have to be the revealing? (scripture?) - The synonyms on G601 vs G5319 are interesting (blueletterbible)

 

 

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Well the head wound is spoken of in quite a number of passages without any time context whatsoever....so, not enough light there.  Oh and it says his Right Eye is darkened and arm is clean dried up also....

 

(Zechariah 11:17) "Woe to the idol shepherd that leaveth the flock! the sword shall be upon his arm, and upon his right eye: his arm shall be clean dried up, and his right eye shall be utterly darkened."

 

Can't have a World Leader talking Peace with these Characteristics walking around with "The Church" (GOD'S WORD Lovers ) still here.  You also have/had everyone and their sister looking for leaders with any kind of head wound (Gorbachev comes to mind).....this tells me that this wound/event has to take place sometime after the AoD.

 

That being said and looking more closely.....

 

(Revelation 13:1-3) "And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.  {2} And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.  {3} And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast."

 

Then The next 2 Passages....

 

(Revelation 13:4-5) "And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?  {5} And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months."

 

 

From these Passages it does appear that the "Head Wound" may be before the Abomination of Desolation ( "forty and two months")

 

 

I may need to re-consider my position on this specifically, thanks    However, it's Moot....We won't be here

 

Why does the AoD Have to be the revealing? (scripture?) 

 

It's not.  The revealing (To those Watching and have a command of Scripture -----> "The Church") is the "confirming of the covenant" unless people subscribe to a "secret" covenant or one done via ESP.  Taking into consideration also that he can be known as Mister Big Mouth, by numerous Scriptures, sort of puts the "secret" covenant to bed.  IMHO, the covenant is one of the Main Reasons he is exalted and people follow him.

[Hindsfeet]

Your welcome. I am just in the process of re-thinking/analyzing all of the assumptions that we make, been 'taught' or what man 'just says'. Our hearts can be deceitful.

ps. I will be watching the canonization of JP II closely this coming weekend.

 

Add: Also, 'confirm' the covenant with many can also mean 'strengthen/enforce' such as an older covenant. Not necessarily a new covenant.

Edited April 23, 2014 by Hindsfeet

[Enoch2021]

Your welcome. I am just in the process of re-thinking/analyzing all of the assumptions that we make, been 'taught' or what man 'just says'. Our hearts can be deceitful.

ps. I will be watching the canonization of JP II closely this coming weekend.

 

Add: Also, 'confirm' the covenant with many can also mean 'strengthen/enforce' such as an older covenant. Not necessarily a new covenant.

 

 

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Your welcome. I am just in the process of re-thinking/analyzing all of the assumptions that we make, been 'taught' or what man 'just says'.

 

I did that with everything I knew except 1 + 1= 2 (I confirmed it after an hour of trying to refute it ) about 4 years ago after the LORD showed me all the Lies.  I Control-Alt-Deleted everything....and searched anew.

 

Everything and I mean Everything must survive my own Personal Crucible!  My Wife   is none too happy about it.   She finds me insufferable lol.  Can you imagine....wherever would she get such an idea 

 

ps. I will be watching the canonization of JP II closely this coming weekend.

 

No Comment

 

Add: Also, 'confirm' the covenant with many can also mean 'strengthen/enforce' such as an older covenant. Not necessarily a new covenant.

 

Yes, That is one of the scenarios on my radar.  As I said however....we won't be here 

[Hindsfeet]

I am hoping that we wont be here, however, I *need* to have my ducks in a row just in case we are, I dont like suprises.

'No Comment' - LoL - Things are soo close and soo 'in our face'! Have you seen the video of Pope and Copeland, and that new Tony Palmer guy - *scary* stuff.

Are we closer than we really think?

[Enoch2021]

I am hoping that we wont be here, however, I *need* to have my ducks in a row just in case we are, I dont like suprises.

'No Comment' - LoL - Things are soo close and soo 'in our face'! Have you seen the video of Pope and Copeland, and that new Tony Palmer guy - *scary* stuff.

Are we closer than we really think?

 

 

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I don't concern myself with Mystery Babylon anymore.

 

 

IMHO, the sequence....

 

Psalm 83 War

 

Gog/Magog Invasion (Ezekiel 38)

 

This leads to confirming of the covenant or Daniel's 70th Week.

 

Psalm 83 has to take place before Gog/Magog because none of Israel's enemies (mentioned in Psalm 83) that surround Israel are even mentioned.  Also, in the Gog/Magog invasion, it states that there are no walls or gates and they're @ Peace (Which is preposterous without first removing those surrounding nations).  That's also telling me that Israel will expand her borders (Probably Abrahamic Covenant Borders) after Psalm 83.

 

And,

 

The Purpose of The Gog/Magog Invasion is booty/spoil.  Israel surely doesn't have any of that now but makes sense if Psalm 83 occurs first.  The booty is what it obtains from defeating (Palestinians, Jordanians, Egyptians, Syria, Southern Lebanon, et al)

 

 

******And, You may find this interesting ......

 

(Psalms 83:2-5) "For, lo, thine enemies make a tumult: and they that hate thee have lifted up the head.  {3} They have taken crafty counsel against thy people, and consulted against thy hidden ones.  {4} They have said, Come, and let us cut them off from being a nation; that the name of Israel may be no more in remembrance.  {5} For they have consulted together with one consent: they are confederate against thee:"

 

Who's "thy People"??  =   Israel

 

Who's "thy Hidden Ones"  =  "The Church"  Already Raptured 

 

The more I look @ the Bigger Picture.....the more it gels.

 

Praise The LORD!!!!!