The Christian church (and) Israel

[Guest]

I have a question. What's the difference between the Christian church and the Jewish people (God's blood covenant) with Israel.

 

 

I tend to avoid giving quick responses since they are easily misconstrued or kill conversations, but your question is so open-ended, I guess I will have to say 'Christ'.  Perhaps you can expand upon your question?

 

clb

 

 

Christ Is The Messiah Of The Jews

 

And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. Daniel 9:26

 

Saving To The Uttermost

 

And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins. Romans 11:26-27

 

And Restoring To Israel

 

And yet for all that, when they be in the land of their enemies, I will not cast them away, neither will I abhor them, to destroy them utterly, and to break my covenant with them: for I am the LORD their God.

 

But I will for their sakes remember the covenant of their ancestors, whom I brought forth out of the land of Egypt in the sight of the heathen, that I might be their God: I am the LORD.

 

These are the statutes and judgments and laws, which the LORD made between him and the children of Israel in mount Sinai by the hand of Moses. Leviticus 26:44-46

 

The Promises To

 

And when thy days be fulfilled, and thou shalt sleep with thy fathers, I will set up thy seed after thee, which shall proceed out of thy bowels, and I will establish his kingdom.

 

He shall build an house for my name, and I will stablish the throne of his kingdom for ever.

 

I will be his father, and he shall be my son. If he commit iniquity, I will chasten him with the rod of men, and with the stripes of the children of men:

 

But my mercy shall not depart away from him, as I took it from Saul, whom I put away before thee.

 

And thine house and thy kingdom shall be established for ever before thee: thy throne shall be established for ever.

 

According to all these words, and according to all this vision, so did Nathan speak unto David. 2 Samuel 7:12-17

 

The Fathers

 

As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes. For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance. Romans 11:28-29

[Guest DRS81]

I have another question.

How many Jewish people have gone to hell in the past 2000 years because they weren't born again.

If God made this blood covenant and restoring in the future, then why aren't all Jewish people born again.

What exactly is God restoring if some are still going to hell.

[Atwood]

The Q/A was put forth:

"What's the difference between the Christian church and the Jewish people (God's blood covenant) with Israel."

The question does not make sense to me. What does "the Jewish people () with Israel" mean? I think you accidentally scrambled your words.

1) "the Christian church": There is only one Church, the Body of Christ, to be sure it is Christian.

2) "the Jewish people" . . . Israel. What do you mean by "Jewish"? Do you mean the people who follow the religion of the Talmud?

3) Perhaps your question is only, "What is the difference between the Church and Israel"?

To that it may be said that

a) Israel is the new name that the Lord gave to Jacob, who was the recipient of the national promises given to Abraham and Isaac. Jacob had 12 sons, whose offspring is the nation of Israel. This nation was given the Law of Moses, including animal sacrifices and a concrete national code to follow, along with a small piece of real estate, Eretz Israel, which runs from the River of Egypt (probably the Wadi el Arish) to the Euphrates. That nation fell into sin and idolatry and was expelled from its land by Assyria and Babylon, fully around 586 BC. The restoration of that nation was prophesied in which Israel would be the head and not the tail. This destined blessing included the land promised to Jacob. A remnant returned to the land and set up shop around 516 BC.

The future of Israel was prophesied in Daniel 9 as 70 sevens, best taken as weeks of years. There is the prophecy of the Messiah coming, but being cut off in a gap between week 69 and week 70. That gap continues unto today.

The promised Messiah came, the Lord Jesus, proclaiming, Repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand. Israel wanted a kingdom with the physical blessings promised, but did not repent; instead the nation rejected the Messiah, delivered Him to Pilate for crucifixion.

Meanwhile, the Lord Jesus seeing His rejection in progress, prophesied a new group which did not exist at the time: "I will build My Church" in Mat 16. Another term for the Church is "the Body of Christ." One gains entrance to this group by the baptism of the Spirit (not so with OT Israel). The baptism of the Holy Spirit began after Christ ascended after His resurrection, as recorded in Acts 1-2. As 1 Cor 12:13 says, by One Spirit we were all baptized into the Body of Christ.

In contrast with Israel, the Church (the ekklesia) was a mystery at the time of Christ. This mystery was revealed largely via the Apostle Paul. Read Ephesians and Colossians. In the Church there is neither Jew nor Greek. The Church has no piece of land on earth like Israel had and no earthly king. Our citizenship is in Heaven.

[Guest DRS81]

The Q/A was put forth:

"What's the difference between the Christian church and the Jewish people (God's blood covenant) with Israel."

The question does not make sense to me. What does "the Jewish people () with Israel" mean? I think you accidentally scrambled your words.

1) "the Christian church": There is only one Church, the Body of Christ, to be sure it is Christian.

2) "the Jewish people" . . . Israel. What do you mean by "Jewish"? Do you mean the people who follow the religion of the Talmud?

3) Perhaps your question is only, "What is the difference between the Church and Israel"?

To that it may be said that

a) Israel is the new name that the Lord gave to Jacob, who was the recipient of the national promises given to Abraham and Isaac. Jacob had 12 sons, whose offspring is the nation of Israel. This nation was given the Law of Moses, including animal sacrifices and a concrete national code to follow, along with a small piece of real estate, Eretz Israel, which runs from the River of Egypt (probably the Wadi el Arish) to the Euphrates. That nation fell into sin and idolatry and was expelled from its land by Assyria and Babylon, fully around 586 BC. The restoration of that nation was prophesied in which Israel would be the head and not the tail. This destined blessing included the land promised to Jacob. A remnant returned to the land and set up shop around 516 BC.

The future of Israel was prophesied in Daniel 9 as 70 sevens, best taken as weeks of years. There is the prophecy of the Messiah coming, but being cut off in a gap between week 69 and week 70. That gap continues unto today.

The promised Messiah came, the Lord Jesus, proclaiming, Repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand. Israel wanted a kingdom with the physical blessings promised, but did not repent; instead the nation rejected the Messiah, delivered Him to Pilate for crucifixion.

Meanwhile, the Lord Jesus seeing His rejection in progress, prophesied a new group which did not exist at the time: "I will build My Church" in Mat 16. Another term for the Church is "the Body of Christ." One gains entrance to this group by the baptism of the Spirit (not so with OT Israel). The baptism of the Holy Spirit began after Christ ascended after His resurrection, as recorded in Acts 1-2. As 1 Cor 12:13 says, by One Spirit we were all baptized into the Body of Christ.

In contrast with Israel, the Church (the ekklesia) was a mystery at the time of Christ. This mystery was revealed largely via the Apostle Paul. Read Ephesians and Colossians. In the Church there is neither Jew nor Greek. The Church has no piece of land on earth like Israel had and no earthly king. Our citizenship is in Heaven.

 

I agree with post. Also when you get a chance also reply to post 12. I'm having a hard time understanding why Israel is God's blood covenant, yet many Jews have gone to hell. I don't understand what God is trying to do. Does the blood covenant or restoration of Israel have anything to do with salvation in Christ? Mainly because salvation is the most important part of the Bible I would say.

[Atwood]

Post 12 says:

"How many Jewish people have gone to hell in the past 2000 years because they weren't born again.

If God made this blood covenant and restoring in the future, then why aren't all Jewish people born again.

What exactly is God restoring if some are still going to hell."

I am not sure why the expression "blood covenant" is in the question. The Lord keeps all His agreements. The Abrahamic Covenant (involving blood indeed) has a general provision that through Abe's seed all of the nations of the world would be blessed. But that does not guarantee a new birth for everyone. Christ is the ultimate seed. Through His death, all man's sins were paid for. Now the gospel goes out without prejudice to all men, Jewish or gentile (no discrimination): "Whosoever believes in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life."

Indeed it is prophesied that when Christ returns to set up His kingdom, all Israel will be saved. But ever the condition of faith (believing) in the Lord Jesus is man's responsibility for salvation. Neither Abe's covenant, nor any other, ever guaranteed that all men or all Israel of all time would all be born again. Of both Israel and gentiles, there are the "whosoever-won'ts.

[Guest]

The Word

 

It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life. John 6:63

 

~

 

Salvation is a kind of spiritual surgery--by placing our faith in Christ we are uniting ourselves to His death and resurrection: the old, sinful man is slain, the new man is raised?

 

 

But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world. Galatians 6:14

 

~

 

Salvation

 

And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; Colossians 2:13

 

Is Jesus

 

And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear:

 

Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:

 

Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

 

Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.

 

Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:

 

Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

 

For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away:

 

But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you. 1 Peter 1:17-25

[Guest DRS81]

The Abrahamic Covenant (involving blood indeed) has a general provision that through Abe's seed all of the nations of the world would be blessed. But that does not guarantee a new birth for everyone.

 

I don't understand something. Why would God bless certain men or families on this old earth but not bring them to salvation in the end. What's the point of that, blessing Israel but not saving them or some.

[Willa]

Israel was to be the bride of God the Father, but she kept seeking to worship other gods--spiritual adultry. However, Israel was chosen to bear God's Son in human flesh, and was promised the land as her inheritance. It is promised in Romans that she will again come into God's favor and grace and receive their promised Messiah.

Jesus is the Father's heir. But we, the church, are betrothed to the Christ. This is more like being married but the marriage is not yet celebrated and consumated. It is much more than an engagement because the bride is already purchased and the groom has gone to prepare a home for her. When the Father approves, Christ will return unannounced to snatch her away and take her home. Then there will be a celebration.

It is promised that since we are adopted as sons, we will be coheirs with Christ. We will reign and rule with Him as kings and priests. But priests do not inherit the land. The Jews have been promised a land whose borders have never been fully obtained, but will be in the future.

 

I have run into this before but am not really sure what it is called or where from Scripture it is gotten--you are suggesting that the physical domain promised to Abraham and obtained by David but lost by Solomon will one day restored to the Jews as a nation, correct?

 

clb

This is my understanding from the OT prophets. I will try to find specific references if you wish, but I am sure others know them much better.

[Willa]

The Abrahamic Covenant (involving blood indeed) has a general provision that through Abe's seed all of the nations of the world would be blessed. But that does not guarantee a new birth for everyone.

 

I don't understand something. Why would God bless certain men or families on this old earth but not bring them to salvation in the end. What's the point of that, blessing Israel but not saving them or some.

God has always had a remnant among the Jews who stayed faithful to Him.

[Willa]

Israel was to be the bride of God the Father, but she kept seeking to worship other gods--spiritual adultry. However, Israel was chosen to bear God's Son in human flesh, and was promised the land as her inheritance. It is promised in Romans that she will again come into God's favor and grace and receive their promised Messiah.

Jesus is the Father's heir. But we, the church, are betrothed to the Christ. This is more like being married but the marriage is not yet celebrated and consumated. It is much more than an engagement because the bride is already purchased and the groom has gone to prepare a home for her. When the Father approves, Christ will return unannounced to snatch her away and take her home. Then there will be a celebration.

It is promised that since we are adopted as sons, we will be coheirs with Christ. We will reign and rule with Him as kings and priests. But priests do not inherit the land. The Jews have been promised a land whose borders have never been fully obtained, but will be in the future.

Ok I know my question now. Ok, John Chapter 3 says you must be born again to see the kingdom of God. Are the Jewish people born again? When I refer to the 'christian church' I'm referring to all born again believers in Christ who have accepted Jesus as Savior. Is that also required of the Jewish people of Israel also? - David

The faith of Abraham was accounted to him as righteousness. Even John the Baptist was not seemingly born again, evev though he had been filled with the Holy Spirit in his mother's womb. He called himself a friend of the Bridegroom, but was not a part of the Bride of Christ which came into existance at pentacost..

I have a lot of questions I plant to ask the Lord someday since I really don't understand His plan as well as I would like, either.