Guest shiloh357 Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 I still do not understand that Eve could be saved through childbearing, unless it was proheticaly pointing to the coming Christ Child It's not a prophecy about Mary. The pronoun "she" in I Tim. 2:15 points back to the woman under discussion in v. 11. Paul is not talking about Eve in this verse. He is not saying that women are eternally saved from sin through childbearing. Plus the plural pronoun and future tense in v. 15 precludes this from being a prophecy about the birth of Jesus. Paul uses "saved" in the sense of preserved. Paul starting up at verse 11 is talking about Eve who brought sin into the world. Even though it was a woman who precipitated sin coming to the world and women bear that stigma, they are preserved from that stigma through the act of childbearing. It should also be pointed out that the childbearing spoken of here is not simply giving birth but speaks to raising Godly seed. It includes raising and training up a child in the ways of the Lord. Perhaps both are true. Mathew Henry agees with the other theory, pointing out that the WOMAN is singular here and THE CHILD-BEARING Is the litteral translation. The next line agrees with you that women shall be protected if they continue in godliness. I hardly think that this is always the case, though, since many godly and good mothers have lost their lives in childbearing. But this apparently is a promise that can be claimed in prayer. Often it seems that Greek and Hebrew writers in the Bible had double meanings in their manner of expressing themselves that are lost to interpreters. No, exegetically both cannot be true due to the future tense nature used in the passage. Keep in mind that Paul is making a generalization so the fact that some women have died in childbirth doesn't negate the truth of what he said. There is no reason to imply double meaning. If Paul had the birth of Jesus in mind, that meaning would have been unambiguously stated in the passage, as all references to Jesus in the Scriptures are always clear and unmistakable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldenEagle Posted June 4, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 764 Topics Per Day: 0.18 Content Count: 7,626 Content Per Day: 1.81 Reputation: 1,559 Days Won: 44 Joined: 10/03/2012 Status: Offline Author Share Posted June 4, 2014 GE, regarding your friend who started tithing, I think that God blesses all of us when we step out in faith to trust Him. It is partly due to surrendering our hearts to Him and partly due to taking that "leap of faith". The same thing may happen when we learn to witness to people. It takes something to overcome our fear and to trust God to be there to work things out. So I doubt if you will be able to convince him otherwise, even if you show him that he is not giving a full Jewish tithe. it is best to just let God deal with it. Meanwhile you can tell him that you are doing what God has shown you to do, and he should keep doing what God showed him to do. You could even pray with him thanking God for blessing him Thank you for your ministry to us and making us think and search the Scriptures. Willa My friend (brother) who is saying tithing is a command for Christians basically also believes that God blesses us or curses us depending on our tithing or lack thereof (he applies Malachi 3 to Believers). His church also teaches at least in part the "prosperity gospel" and is a big proponent of teachers like Joel Osteen or Dave Ramsey. I agree with you I doubt I'll be able to convince him. I pray the Holy Spirit guides him (and all of us) as we grow in our walk with Christ. I also think it's a good suggestion to encourage him to do as God leads and to allow me to do as God leads... A sister in Christ recently said she didn't want to be a part of a discussion group on social media because... "I don't do well with any sort of debate. I have to take a lot of scripture simply on faith because there are a lot of things that are hard for me to understand. Debating tends to cause me to lose confidence in my understanding of scripture, then I get insecure, and out of insecurity I don't always react well. I thought it best to just not participate. Thanks anyways!" It saddens me when I read this above in italics... I read recently the following below in bold and it resonated with me: "Study both sides of everything, no matter how personally uncomfortable. If someone tells you not to study the other side of your beliefs, that is a huge red flag that means you should do exactly that." I think it's important to listen to people even if you disagree with them. As Christians I think sometimes we're afraid of listening to others idea (wether it be other Christians or even non-Christians) for fear that we will somehow loose our faith... God bless, GE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willa Posted June 4, 2014 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 68 Topic Count: 186 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 14,242 Content Per Day: 3.33 Reputation: 16,653 Days Won: 30 Joined: 08/14/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted June 4, 2014 GE, Both are sad commentaries. Some people believe in "generational curses" as well, which is not true. Gal.3:10b Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them. 3:13 Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us (for it is written, "Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree.") If Christ became a curse for us, He has redeemed us from all curses, not just the one for not keeping the law. He became a curse for us. Praise His holy Name! He did so much for us on that cross. He truely has set us free. I do understand a little bit about what the person who does not want to debate is saying, though. When God first enlightened me about something I had at times struggled to grasp it and was afraid of losing it. The concept had not yet been applied to my life in such a way that it was mine or experientially understood. The person may come back eventually when a little more mature. This went on for several years. But ideas should be challanged if they continue to be just head knowledge since it may not be the truth. I also used to get such a bad attitude toward people who held other doctrines that God told me it was wrong for me to debate and I had to run from temptation. That is no longer the case. God does bless us when we give and makes our dollars stretch. We find more bargains, we get unexpected refunds, and He changes our desires so we don't want as much stuff. Things just work out better. That doesn't mean that we are under a curse when we don't give. It is just life as usual. That is new testament giving, not under compulsion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldenEagle Posted June 4, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 764 Topics Per Day: 0.18 Content Count: 7,626 Content Per Day: 1.81 Reputation: 1,559 Days Won: 44 Joined: 10/03/2012 Status: Offline Author Share Posted June 4, 2014 GE, Both are sad commentaries. Some people believe in "generational curses" as well, which is not true. Gal.3:10b Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them. 3:13 Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us (for it is written, "Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree.") If Christ became a curse for us, He has redeemed us from all curses, not just the one for not keeping the law. He became a curse for us. Praise His holy Name! He did so much for us on that cross. He truely has set us free. Amen! Praise God for Jesus! Praise God for His love, mercy, and grace. I needed this reminder today sister. Gal 3:10-14 The Righteous Shall Live by Faith 10 For all who rely on works of the law are under a curse; for it is written, “Cursed be everyone who does not abide by all things written in the Book of the Law, and do them.” 11 Now it is evident that no one is justified before God by the law, for “The righteous shall live by faith.” 12 But the law is not of faith, rather “The one who does them shall live by them.” 13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us—for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who is hanged on a tree”— 14 so that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we might receive the promised Spirit through faith. God bless, GE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldenEagle Posted June 4, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 764 Topics Per Day: 0.18 Content Count: 7,626 Content Per Day: 1.81 Reputation: 1,559 Days Won: 44 Joined: 10/03/2012 Status: Offline Author Share Posted June 4, 2014 Also, re: He has truly set us free...John 8:36 36 So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed. Reminds me of this song: Praise God! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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