ARGOSY Posted November 12, 2014 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,695 Content Per Day: 0.45 Reputation: 583 Days Won: 2 Joined: 01/03/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/11/1968 Share Posted November 12, 2014 I use the Authorized King James Version. (Colossians 1:16-17) "For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: {17} And he is before all things, and by him all things consist." (Isaiah 45:7) "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things." These are Textbook examples of the PLAIN WORD of GOD. (SEE: Apples/Trees ect from previous post) I didn't write it. If you have a problem with it...then your issue is not with anyone but the Author. 3) What happened was Adam and Eve, sin. Well there you have it. I think you lost track of your original objections. I have dealt with them all. Moving on................ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enoch2021 Posted November 12, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 11 Topic Count: 19 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,396 Content Per Day: 0.89 Reputation: 730 Days Won: 4 Joined: 12/21/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/26/1963 Share Posted November 12, 2014 ethnos The Greek word used in this case means "nations" (Romans 11:25) "For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in." In this context, "Gentiles" is talking about The Church. It's juxtaposing "Israel" with the "Gentiles". "Gentiles" in general throughout Scripture means all nations besides Israel. This is Called The Plain WORD OF GOD. Provide evidence? This is Tantamount to asking for more evidence for "apples growing on trees" from..... "Apples grow on Trees". If you feel that Gentile nations cannot be saved during the tribulation What on Earth are you talking about? Look up Strawman Fallacies and dwell on the definition for a while. Okay, so now we are back to the original point. I feel that our purpose does not change during the tribulation, we are to continue to preach and disciple the nations. ============================================================================================ Okay, so now we are back to the original point. I feel that our purpose does not change during the tribulation, we are to continue to preach and disciple the nations. Show "The Church" preaching The Gospel in Revelation....? Better still, show "The Church" in Revelation.......? "I feel"? Seriously? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enoch2021 Posted November 12, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 11 Topic Count: 19 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,396 Content Per Day: 0.89 Reputation: 730 Days Won: 4 Joined: 12/21/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/26/1963 Share Posted November 12, 2014 I use the Authorized King James Version. (Colossians 1:16-17) "For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: {17} And he is before all things, and by him all things consist." (Isaiah 45:7) "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things." These are Textbook examples of the PLAIN WORD of GOD. (SEE: Apples/Trees ect from previous post) I didn't write it. If you have a problem with it...then your issue is not with anyone but the Author. 3) What happened was Adam and Eve, sin. Well there you have it. I think you lost track of your original objections. I have dealt with them all. Moving on................ ================================================================================ "I think"? How about: As Evidenced By.... or As Shown Here.... ?? You've dealt with nothing as your posts "IN TOTO" Clearly Demonstrate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARGOSY Posted November 12, 2014 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,695 Content Per Day: 0.45 Reputation: 583 Days Won: 2 Joined: 01/03/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/11/1968 Share Posted November 12, 2014 Okay, so now we are back to the original point. I feel that our purpose does not change during the tribulation, we are to continue to preach and disciple the nations. Show "The Church" preaching The Gospel in Revelation....? Better still, show "The Church" in Revelation.......? "I feel"? Seriously? The burden of proof is on you to show that the church does not preach the gospel. Since when does the great commission ever stop? If you think it stops, show me. The two witnesses do give their testimony, this occurs just before the second coming. They are mentioned between the 6th and 7th trumpets, and the second coming occurs at the 7th trumpet: Rev 11:15 The seventh angel sounded his trumpet, and there were loud voices in heaven, which said: “The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of his Messiah, and he will reign for ever and ever. I'm not sure what your view is, do you believe the church does not preach during the tribulation. You seemed to indicate earlier that was my strawman argument, and not your belief. It gets a little confusing discussing these issues with you. What do you believe on this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARGOSY Posted November 12, 2014 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,695 Content Per Day: 0.45 Reputation: 583 Days Won: 2 Joined: 01/03/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/11/1968 Share Posted November 12, 2014 "I think"? How about: As Evidenced By.... or As Shown Here.... ?? You've dealt with nothing as your posts "IN TOTO" Clearly Demonstrate. I'm sure its all clear to you. Thanks for the discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enoch2021 Posted November 12, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 11 Topic Count: 19 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,396 Content Per Day: 0.89 Reputation: 730 Days Won: 4 Joined: 12/21/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/26/1963 Share Posted November 12, 2014 Okay, so now we are back to the original point. I feel that our purpose does not change during the tribulation, we are to continue to preach and disciple the nations. Show "The Church" preaching The Gospel in Revelation....? Better still, show "The Church" in Revelation.......? "I feel"? Seriously? The burden of proof is on you to show that the church does not preach the gospel. Since when does the great commission ever stop? If you think it stops, show me. The two witnesses do give their testimony, this occurs just before the second coming. They are mentioned between the 6th and 7th trumpets, and the second coming occurs at the 7th trumpet: Rev 11:15 The seventh angel sounded his trumpet, and there were loud voices in heaven, which said: “The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of his Messiah, and he will reign for ever and ever. I'm not sure what your view is, do you believe the church does not preach during the tribulation. You seemed to indicate earlier that was my strawman argument, and not your belief. It gets a little confusing discussing these issues with you. What do you believe on this? ============================================================================================== The burden of proof is on you to show that the church does not preach the gospel. This is what you said.... "I feel that our purpose does not change during the tribulation, we are to continue to preach and disciple the nations." Then I asked you for support..... Show "The Church" preaching The Gospel in Revelation....? So you think the Burden of Proof is on me to prove that you are in error?? In other words, you find it reasonable to imagine things and then demand people who do not believe in your imaginings to demonstrate how your imaginings are false, BEFORE you give evidence for your imaginings? The two witnesses do give their testimony, this occurs just before the second coming. Strawman Fallacy. Are the Two Witnesses "The Church"? The only mention of "The Gospel" being preached during the "Great Tribulation" is here... (Revelation 14:6) "And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people," Note who is doing it. and the second coming occurs at the 7th trumpet: Factually Incorrect. The Second Coming is Here.... (Revelation 19:11-16) "And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. {12} His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. {13} And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. {14} And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. {15} And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. {16} And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS." This is AFTER, the 7th Vial. The Seventh Trumpet Judgment ends here... (Revelation 15:8) "And the temple was filled with smoke from the glory of God, and from his power; and no man was able to enter into the temple, till the seven plagues of the seven angels were fulfilled." Then, the Vial Judgments begin here.... (Revelation 16:1-2) "And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels, Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth. {2} And the first went, and poured out his vial upon the earth; and there fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and upon them which worshipped his image." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARGOSY Posted November 12, 2014 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,695 Content Per Day: 0.45 Reputation: 583 Days Won: 2 Joined: 01/03/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/11/1968 Share Posted November 12, 2014 The two witnesses do give their testimony, this occurs just before the second coming. Strawman Fallacy. Are the Two Witnesses "The Church"? The only mention of "The Gospel" being preached during the "Great Tribulation" is here... (Revelation 14:6) "And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people," Note who is doing it. and the second coming occurs at the 7th trumpet: Factually Incorrect. The Second Coming is Here.... (Revelation 19:11-16) "And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. {12} His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. {13} And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. {14} And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. {15} And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. {16} And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS." This is AFTER, the 7th Vial. The Seventh Trumpet Judgment ends here... (Revelation 15:8) "And the temple was filled with smoke from the glory of God, and from his power; and no man was able to enter into the temple, till the seven plagues of the seven angels were fulfilled." Then, the Vial Judgments begin here.... (Revelation 16:1-2) "And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels, Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth. {2} And the first went, and poured out his vial upon the earth; and there fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and upon them which worshipped his image." The beauty about my point of view, is that those neutrals who follow this discussion can actually read Rev 11:15 and decide for themselves if its referring to the second coming: 15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever. Same as Rev 6: 15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; 16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand? The second coming and events surrounding the day of the Lord are often mentioned in Revelation, not just once. The bible speaks for itself, your problem is with the bible. That is your problem lol And I'm surprised at your lack of evidence for your strange philosophy that preaching stops during the tribulation. An argument from silence is not a strong argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enoch2021 Posted November 12, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 11 Topic Count: 19 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,396 Content Per Day: 0.89 Reputation: 730 Days Won: 4 Joined: 12/21/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/26/1963 Share Posted November 12, 2014 ============================================================================================================= Moving on................ You probably should have followed your own advice here, but alas... The beauty about my point of view, is that those neutrals who follow this discussion can actually read Rev 11:15 and decide for themselves if its referring to the second coming: If they can Fog a Mirror, they should be able to unwind these baseless "a priori" adherence's in less than a Planck Time. The second coming and events surrounding the day of the Lord are often mentioned in Revelation, not just once. Another Strawman (Fallacy). When is The "Actual" Second Coming??....Revelation 19. We can talk all day about the events leading to building the Empire State Building... but that's quite a bit different than the "Actual Day" construction started. And I'm surprised at your lack of evidence for your strange philosophy that preaching stops during the tribulation. An argument from silence is not a strong argument. I'm actually quite Dumbfounded by this; As Evidenced By: Argument from Silence--is a conclusion based on the absence of statements in historical documents, rather than their presence. Ok you said... "I feel that our purpose does not change during the tribulation, we are to continue to preach and disciple the nations." Then I asked you for support..... Show "The Church" preaching The Gospel in Revelation....? You can't, because there are no statements (absence of statements) in Revelation that show "The Church" preaching the Gospel...so you then concluded the Antithesis, In other words----(Since it doesn't state that there is the preaching of the Gospel by The Church in the "great tribulation"....therefore, the Gospel is Preached by The Church in the "great tribulation") This is a Textbook Example of an Argument from Silence (Fallacy); Ergo....Pot meet kettle Moreover....The Preaching of The Gospel is mentioned in Revelation (as I've shown you): (Revelation 14:6) "And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people," Which drives home my point even further. Notwithstanding...The lack of evidence is not proof that the contrary is true. However, if evidence can reasonably be expected to be found, then lack of evidence is evidence to the contrary. Can we reasonably expect to find "The Church" Preaching The Gospel during the "great tribulation"? .....you betcha. Not only do we not find "The Church" preaching in the "great tribulation".....we don't find "The Church"! Moreover-furthermore, the base of your premise has "The Church" in the "great tribulation" so as to "preach"----this is a Begging The Question (Fallacy). First prove "The Church" is IN the "great tribulation".....? Anything further? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARGOSY Posted November 12, 2014 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,695 Content Per Day: 0.45 Reputation: 583 Days Won: 2 Joined: 01/03/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/11/1968 Share Posted November 12, 2014 ============================================================================================================= Moving on................ You probably should have followed your own advice here, but alas... The beauty about my point of view, is that those neutrals who follow this discussion can actually read Rev 11:15 and decide for themselves if its referring to the second coming: If they can Fog a Mirror, they should be able to unwind these baseless "a priori" adherence's in less than a Planck Time. The second coming and events surrounding the day of the Lord are often mentioned in Revelation, not just once. Another Strawman (Fallacy). When is The "Actual" Second Coming??....Revelation 19. We can talk all day about the events leading to building the Empire State Building... but that's quite a bit different than the "Actual Day" construction started. And I'm surprised at your lack of evidence for your strange philosophy that preaching stops during the tribulation. An argument from silence is not a strong argument. I'm actually quite Dumbfounded by this; As Evidenced By: Argument from Silence--is a conclusion based on the absence of statements in historical documents, rather than their presence. Ok you said... "I feel that our purpose does not change during the tribulation, we are to continue to preach and disciple the nations." Then I asked you for support..... Show "The Church" preaching The Gospel in Revelation....? You can't, because there are no statements (absence of statements) in Revelation that show "The Church" preaching the Gospel...so you then concluded the Antithesis, In other words----(Since it doesn't state that there is the preaching of the Gospel by The Church in the "great tribulation"....therefore, the Gospel is Preached by The Church in the "great tribulation") This is a Textbook Example of an Argument from Silence (Fallacy); Ergo....Pot meet kettle Moreover....The Preaching of The Gospel is mentioned in Revelation (as I've shown you): (Revelation 14:6) "And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people," Which drives home my point even further. Notwithstanding...The lack of evidence is not proof that the contrary is true. However, if evidence can reasonably be expected to be found, then lack of evidence is evidence to the contrary. Can we reasonably expect to find "The Church" Preaching The Gospel during the "great tribulation"? .....you betcha. Not only do we not find "The Church" preaching in the "great tribulation".....we don't find "The Church"! Moreover-furthermore, the base of your premise has "The Church" in the "great tribulation" so as to "preach"----this is a Begging The Question (Fallacy). First prove "The Church" is IN the "great tribulation".....? Anything further? I see you are getting quite pedantic about side issues. Jesus gave us the mandate to preach the gospel and disciple the nations, Matthew 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come. The gospel will be preached and then the end will come. Matthew 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: 20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enoch2021 Posted November 12, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 11 Topic Count: 19 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,396 Content Per Day: 0.89 Reputation: 730 Days Won: 4 Joined: 12/21/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/26/1963 Share Posted November 12, 2014 I see you are getting quite pedantic about side issues. Jesus gave us the mandate to preach the gospel and disciple the nations, Matthew 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come. The gospel will be preached and then the end will come. Matthew 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: 20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. ============================================================================================================ I see you are getting quite pedantic about side issues. And, for instance.....? So as to assist in elevating this assertion above baseless where it currently resides. Jesus gave us the mandate to preach the gospel and disciple the nations, Yes, HE surely did. Your point ? Matthew 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come. The gospel will be preached and then the end will come. That's exactly what happens.... (Revelation 14:6) "And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people," Then..... (Revelation 19:15-16) "And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. {16} And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS." Matthew 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: 20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. This is correct. Do you have a point you wish to make....? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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