the GREAT TRIBULATION Rev;7;14 ;/1;9/2;9/2;10/2;22

[Defending the Name]

So you are full preterist I gather when you state the term Soon to all events right?

[terraricca]

So you are full preterist I gather when you state the term Soon to all events right?

Hi

I did not wrote the scriptures

[Defending the Name]

Now I'm confused, so your not a preterist?

[Salty]

Quotes by Defending the Name

 

 

Yes I'm delighted you asked. Apostle Paul stated that Christ appeared at the END OF AGE to remove sin:

Romans 9:26
If that had been necessary, Christ would have had to die again and again, ever since the world began. But now, once for all time, he has appeared at the end of the age to remove sin by his own death as a sacrifice.

The end of age is the old covenant age, that is out with the old chapter and in with the new chapter where God declared through Joel that he would put his Holy Spirit in the faithful as recorded in:

Joel 2:28-29
And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions: And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit.

 

Many mis-apply that Joel 2 Scripture. There's more events associated with it to mark its real timing for the very end of this world:

 

Joel 2

²⁸ And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out My spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:

²⁹ And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out My spirit.

³⁰ And I will shew wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke.

³¹ The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and terrible day of the Lord come.

³² And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the Lord hath said, and in the remnant whom the Lord shall call.

 

When Apostle Peter in Acts 2 said "this is that" about that prophecy in Joel, it means the Pentecost cloven tongue manifesting was an 'example'... of the Joel 2 prophecy, not the actual time fulfillment it is reserved for. It's because the actual fulfillment of that Joel 2 prophecy involves the great tribulation timing with those "wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke", and "The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and terrible day of the LORD come."

 

 

The four horse of the apocalypse happened in the old covenant age across the first four seals. The fifth seal initiated the long awaited resurrection of the dead at the end of the old covenant age, where the first fruits who had been waiting in Abraham's Bosom, that is under the altar of God (paradise), were given white angelic robes.

 

Not true at all.

 

The Zechariah four horsemen prophecy is about the end of this world, just as there are many places in the OT prophets that prophesy of events meant only for the end of this world and thereafter.

 

Likewise with the Seals of Rev.6, and especially the 5th Seal, those are for the tribulation timing, because you left out the subject of why those under the altar there ask God "how long?", and He tells them to wait until 'their' brethren are killed as they were. Thus you butchered those Scriptures thoroughly with your tradition of men.

 

 

These are those who Christ took with him in his established heavenly kingdom mentioned in Daniel 2:44, 12:1-3, Rev 6:9-11. The New covenant age is cut short because it forms the last remainder of the 70th week. Remember that Daniel stated that the messiah was cut off in the middle of the 70th week. The two witnesses minister to the gentile world at large for the remainder of the week for the last 3.5 symbolic days (remember they are raised after 3.5 days), symbolic 42 months, symbolic 1260 days. It is at the beginning of the new covenant age that the everlasting gospel goes out to the gentile world at large through the ministry of the 1st hour workmen the apostles. The 11th hour workmen will be the house of Jacob who are said to be the first to receive the message, but the last to proclaim it to the world.

 

Jesus said nothing about a "new covenant age" being cut short. What He did say in Matt.24 was that the timing He called the "great tribulation" would be shortened for His elect's sake. You've butchered that Scripture, as you also have with those 1260 days, 42 months, and 3.5 days ideas. God's two witnesses are killed in Jerusalem at the end of their 1260 days prophesying, and their dead bodies left laying the street for 3.5 days, and then they are resurrected (Rev.11). The 42 months is the timing of the Gentiles treading the holy city for the end of this world; it's tribulation timing, and it has NOT... even begun to be fulfilled yet today.

 

 

 

The house of Jacob is the prodigal son who finally came back to the Father. The 3rd, 6th and 9th hour workmen complained as the symbol of the older son who never left the faith. The youngest son symbolised the least in faith, but the Father when seeing him coming back to faith, came to meet him half way and kissed him on his neck. The 11th hour workmen are Jewish converts to Christianity.

 

Concerning the laborers in the field and the 11th hour workers, those last workers represent Christ's elect servants that will make a stand during the great tribulation timing and they are sealed with God's seal per Rev.7. They only include 144,000 from the tribes of Israel, but a "great multitude" out of all peoples and nations that believe on Christ Jesus are included. Yes, the "great multitude" is included with being sealed by God, which represents Gentiles in Christ's Church which will go through... that great tribulation. Only those Faithful who wait for Christ's coming at the end of Daniel's symbolic "one week" to destroy the dragon's kingdom will be allowed to approach our Lord Jesus when He comes. It will be because only those will refuse to bow in false worship to the pseudo-Christ that is coming first to set himself up as God in a rebuilt temple in Jerusalem in our near future.

[Defending the Name]

hi

 

I always wondered if that great tribulation out of which came the great crowed ; was a "one event occurrence like some seem to teach " I believe that the great tribulation is in fact our lifespan within our life's in God's truth,just as Christ went through during his 3.5 years as the true messiah ,

 

what then makes our cloths white is our faithfulness ,our pure faith ,the good deeds they have collected during that time for the glory of God and his son ,

 

this is why their number could not be counted for it is an ongoing number until the end of this age ,

 

what you guys think ?

The great tribulation commenced at the end of the old covenant age, where the many nations of the gentile world became the recipients of the gospel as the two symbolic witnesses to preach the gospel across the great harvest of God for the time, time and half a time allotted.

The great harvest of God commenced when Christ initiated the long awaited resurrection of the dead at the opening of the fifth seal and raised his old covenant bride (symbolic 144,000) then the Holy Ghost declares blessed is the faihfil who dies from now on for their works will follow them, meaning they are immediately raised and the living will not hinder them from being raised.

The time, time and half a time encompasses the reaping of the great harvest of God from the 1st hour workmen who were the apostles right down to the 11th hour workmen near the end of the new covenant age and the end of the world. This encompasses the first resurrection where new covenant believers who die will not suffer spiritual death like their old covenant brothers but will immediately be resurrected into their angelic bodies.

The great tribulation encompasses the new covenant age.

Christ does not possess an angelic body.  Therefore, we will not possess an angelic body.  Angels are servants to Christ, yet they (fallen angels) cannot be redeemed.  Only those born of water (physical birth) and born of the Spirit (Spiritual birth) can enter into the kingdom of heaven.

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

The risen Lord is the seventh angel who sounds the seventh trumpet declaring tie no longer at the end of the great harvest of God. The risen Christ is the Angel of Yahweh's presence and he is identified as such in the Old Testament.

If the risen Christ retained the earthly body as whole or in part then John would not have said the following:

1 John 3:2

Dear friends, now we are children of God, and what we will be has not yet been made known. But we know that when Christ appears, we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is.

For a doctrine to go above the testimony of John proclaiming that they know that Christ retained the earthly body in part or whole, are bordering on Gnosticism. Because this type of doctrine states that those who arrived on the scene after John received personal revelation that John was not privy to. This is where many have misunderstood what we will be in the resurrection.

Mark 12:25

When the dead rise, they will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven.

2 Corinthians 5:1

For we know that if the earthly tent we live in is destroyed, we have a building from God, an eternal house in heaven, not built by human hands.

1 Corinthians 15:40

There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.

Post resurrection. Form is not human but angelic.

[Montana Marv]

 

 

 

hi

 

I always wondered if that great tribulation out of which came the great crowed ; was a "one event occurrence like some seem to teach " I believe that the great tribulation is in fact our lifespan within our life's in God's truth,just as Christ went through during his 3.5 years as the true messiah ,

 

what then makes our cloths white is our faithfulness ,our pure faith ,the good deeds they have collected during that time for the glory of God and his son ,

 

this is why their number could not be counted for it is an ongoing number until the end of this age ,

 

what you guys think ?

The great tribulation commenced at the end of the old covenant age, where the many nations of the gentile world became the recipients of the gospel as the two symbolic witnesses to preach the gospel across the great harvest of God for the time, time and half a time allotted.

The great harvest of God commenced when Christ initiated the long awaited resurrection of the dead at the opening of the fifth seal and raised his old covenant bride (symbolic 144,000) then the Holy Ghost declares blessed is the faihfil who dies from now on for their works will follow them, meaning they are immediately raised and the living will not hinder them from being raised.

The time, time and half a time encompasses the reaping of the great harvest of God from the 1st hour workmen who were the apostles right down to the 11th hour workmen near the end of the new covenant age and the end of the world. This encompasses the first resurrection where new covenant believers who die will not suffer spiritual death like their old covenant brothers but will immediately be resurrected into their angelic bodies.

The great tribulation encompasses the new covenant age.

Christ does not possess an angelic body.  Therefore, we will not possess an angelic body.  Angels are servants to Christ, yet they (fallen angels) cannot be redeemed.  Only those born of water (physical birth) and born of the Spirit (Spiritual birth) can enter into the kingdom of heaven.

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

The risen Lord is the seventh angel who sounds the seventh trumpet declaring tie no longer at the end of the great harvest of God. The risen Christ is the Angel of Yahweh's presence and he is identified as such in the Old Testament.

If the risen Christ retained the earthly body as whole or in part then John would not have said the following:

1 John 3:2

Dear friends, now we are children of God, and what we will be has not yet been made known. But we know that when Christ appears, we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is.

For a doctrine to go above the testimony of John proclaiming that they know that Christ retained the earthly body in part or whole, are bordering on Gnosticism. Because this type of doctrine states that those who arrived on the scene after John received personal revelation that John was not privy to. This is where many have misunderstood what we will be in the resurrection.

Mark 12:25

When the dead rise, they will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven.

2 Corinthians 5:1

For we know that if the earthly tent we live in is destroyed, we have a building from God, an eternal house in heaven, not built by human hands.

1 Corinthians 15:40

There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.

Post resurrection. Form is not human but angelic.

 

Dead wrong

 

We will know Jesus Christ by the stripes on His Back and the nail prints on His hands and by the wound on His side.  All physical signs from a human body.  The Lamb who was slain.  He was made a little lower than the angels, yet He arose to the highest position, seated at the right hand of God.  And also saying I AM.  I AM equal with God, for I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end.  No created angel can can receive this Glory.

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

[Defending the Name]

hi

 

I always wondered if that great tribulation out of which came the great crowed ; was a "one event occurrence like some seem to teach " I believe that the great tribulation is in fact our lifespan within our life's in God's truth,just as Christ went through during his 3.5 years as the true messiah ,

 

what then makes our cloths white is our faithfulness ,our pure faith ,the good deeds they have collected during that time for the glory of God and his son ,

 

this is why their number could not be counted for it is an ongoing number until the end of this age ,

 

what you guys think ?

The great tribulation commenced at the end of the old covenant age, where the many nations of the gentile world became the recipients of the gospel as the two symbolic witnesses to preach the gospel across the great harvest of God for the time, time and half a time allotted.

The great harvest of God commenced when Christ initiated the long awaited resurrection of the dead at the opening of the fifth seal and raised his old covenant bride (symbolic 144,000) then the Holy Ghost declares blessed is the faihfil who dies from now on for their works will follow them, meaning they are immediately raised and the living will not hinder them from being raised.

The time, time and half a time encompasses the reaping of the great harvest of God from the 1st hour workmen who were the apostles right down to the 11th hour workmen near the end of the new covenant age and the end of the world. This encompasses the first resurrection where new covenant believers who die will not suffer spiritual death like their old covenant brothers but will immediately be resurrected into their angelic bodies.

The great tribulation encompasses the new covenant age.

hi

 

any scriptures to support your view ?

Here is a duplicate post I sent on another thread. I hope that the sequence of events in Revelation chapter 6 and 7 answer your questions friend.

Revelation 6:9-11

And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

(These are the Old Covenant who were slain for the "Word of God", are called the "servants of our God", who sing the "song of Moses". They were told to be patient until also their new covenant brothers and sisters would also come to the same fate as they faced.)

Revelation 7:3

Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.

(This is prior to the judgement vials unleashed upon the inhabitants of earth. Note these are called the "servants of our God".)

Revelation 7:9

After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

(This is the second group that follows the 144,000 old covenant Jews who were previously sealed for the resurrection when they were given white robes of angels. This second group are not declared as the "servants of our God", they are from peoples of all nations, meaning post old covenant age and are before the lamb.)

Revelation 7:13-14

And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?

And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

(Notice the angelic elder who is one of the 24 heavenly judges asks John who this second group is and where do they come from? John being a Jew new that the first group the 144,000 were already identified on who they were and where they came from, however this group was not identified and John didn't know the answer, so the elder had to tell him who they were. The fact that John was inquired about the second group and he didn't know who they were distinguishes them as a separate group to the 144,000 who were said to be all the tribes of the children of Israel. The second group washed their robes with the blood of the lamb of God and were said to have came out of the great tribulation. Notice the first group did not go through the great tribulation, therefore they came before the time of the lamb of God and in that regard can not be the end day elect who are said to survive until the climax and the end of the great tribulations time period. The great tribulation must be the time period encompassing when the gospel went out to the gentile nations of the world, this means that the great tribulation encompasses the entire new covenant age.)

[Defending the Name]

hi

I always wondered if that great tribulation out of which came the great crowed ; was a "one event occurrence like some seem to teach " I believe that the great tribulation is in fact our lifespan within our life's in God's truth,just as Christ went through during his 3.5 years as the true messiah ,

what then makes our cloths white is our faithfulness ,our pure faith ,the good deeds they have collected during that time for the glory of God and his son ,

this is why their number could not be counted for it is an ongoing number until the end of this age ,

what you guys think ?

The great tribulation commenced at the end of the old covenant age, where the many nations of the gentile world became the recipients of the gospel as the two symbolic witnesses to preach the gospel across the great harvest of God for the time, time and half a time allotted.

The great harvest of God commenced when Christ initiated the long awaited resurrection of the dead at the opening of the fifth seal and raised his old covenant bride (symbolic 144,000) then the Holy Ghost declares blessed is the faihfil who dies from now on for their works will follow them, meaning they are immediately raised and the living will not hinder them from being raised.

The time, time and half a time encompasses the reaping of the great harvest of God from the 1st hour workmen who were the apostles right down to the 11th hour workmen near the end of the new covenant age and the end of the world. This encompasses the first resurrection where new covenant believers who die will not suffer spiritual death like their old covenant brothers but will immediately be resurrected into their angelic bodies.

The great tribulation encompasses the new covenant age.

Christ does not possess an angelic body. Therefore, we will not possess an angelic body. Angels are servants to Christ, yet they (fallen angels) cannot be redeemed. Only those born of water (physical birth) and born of the Spirit (Spiritual birth) can enter into the kingdom of heaven.

In Christ

Montana Marv

The risen Lord is the seventh angel who sounds the seventh trumpet declaring tie no longer at the end of the great harvest of God. The risen Christ is the Angel of Yahweh's presence and he is identified as such in the Old Testament.

If the risen Christ retained the earthly body as whole or in part then John would not have said the following:

1 John 3:2

Dear friends, now we are children of God, and what we will be has not yet been made known. But we know that when Christ appears, we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is.

For a doctrine to go above the testimony of John proclaiming that they know that Christ retained the earthly body in part or whole, are bordering on Gnosticism. Because this type of doctrine states that those who arrived on the scene after John received personal revelation that John was not privy to. This is where many have misunderstood what we will be in the resurrection.

Mark 12:25

When the dead rise, they will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven.

2 Corinthians 5:1

For we know that if the earthly tent we live in is destroyed, we have a building from God, an eternal house in heaven, not built by human hands.

1 Corinthians 15:40

There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.

Post resurrection. Form is not human but angelic.

Dead wrong

We will know Jesus Christ by the stripes on His Back and the nail prints on His hands and by the wound on His side. All physical signs from a human body. The Lamb who was slain. He was made a little lower than the angels, yet He arose to the highest position, seated at the right hand of God. And also saying I AM. I AM equal with God, for I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. No created angel can can receive this Glory.

In Christ

Montana Marv

Who said that the Christ (Michael) who is the leader of all the angels is a created being?

Scriptures did not say that and I certainly haven't said that, so where did you come up with this conclusion friend?

Edited September 8, 2014 by Defending the Name

[Defending the Name]

Salty your behind the eighth ball, the four horses of the apocalypse are during the old covenant age.

First four seals identify the Old covenant age, then the fifth seal declare Christ as triumphant who then initiates the long awaited resurrection of the dead and commences his heavenly eternal reign with his old covenant bride and those new covenant who would follow after passing from the earthly life. The sixth and seventh seals are during the remainder of Daniel's 70th week where the beast of the bottomless Pitt emerges to destroy the seven hilled city, that symbolise the two witnesses who are everyone in the world who holds the testimony of Jesus.

The book has seven seals and these seven seals must encompass the entire human history that is the Genesis one start and ending. Because the book of life or registry of the living is from the first Adam to the last Adams who will inhabit the heavenly realm with the Christ.

[Montana Marv]

 

 

 

 

 

hi

I always wondered if that great tribulation out of which came the great crowed ; was a "one event occurrence like some seem to teach " I believe that the great tribulation is in fact our lifespan within our life's in God's truth,just as Christ went through during his 3.5 years as the true messiah ,

what then makes our cloths white is our faithfulness ,our pure faith ,the good deeds they have collected during that time for the glory of God and his son ,

this is why their number could not be counted for it is an ongoing number until the end of this age ,

what you guys think ?

The great tribulation commenced at the end of the old covenant age, where the many nations of the gentile world became the recipients of the gospel as the two symbolic witnesses to preach the gospel across the great harvest of God for the time, time and half a time allotted.

The great harvest of God commenced when Christ initiated the long awaited resurrection of the dead at the opening of the fifth seal and raised his old covenant bride (symbolic 144,000) then the Holy Ghost declares blessed is the faihfil who dies from now on for their works will follow them, meaning they are immediately raised and the living will not hinder them from being raised.

The time, time and half a time encompasses the reaping of the great harvest of God from the 1st hour workmen who were the apostles right down to the 11th hour workmen near the end of the new covenant age and the end of the world. This encompasses the first resurrection where new covenant believers who die will not suffer spiritual death like their old covenant brothers but will immediately be resurrected into their angelic bodies.

The great tribulation encompasses the new covenant age.

Christ does not possess an angelic body. Therefore, we will not possess an angelic body. Angels are servants to Christ, yet they (fallen angels) cannot be redeemed. Only those born of water (physical birth) and born of the Spirit (Spiritual birth) can enter into the kingdom of heaven.

In Christ

Montana Marv

The risen Lord is the seventh angel who sounds the seventh trumpet declaring tie no longer at the end of the great harvest of God. The risen Christ is the Angel of Yahweh's presence and he is identified as such in the Old Testament.

If the risen Christ retained the earthly body as whole or in part then John would not have said the following:

1 John 3:2

Dear friends, now we are children of God, and what we will be has not yet been made known. But we know that when Christ appears, we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is.

For a doctrine to go above the testimony of John proclaiming that they know that Christ retained the earthly body in part or whole, are bordering on Gnosticism. Because this type of doctrine states that those who arrived on the scene after John received personal revelation that John was not privy to. This is where many have misunderstood what we will be in the resurrection.

Mark 12:25

When the dead rise, they will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven.

2 Corinthians 5:1

For we know that if the earthly tent we live in is destroyed, we have a building from God, an eternal house in heaven, not built by human hands.

1 Corinthians 15:40

There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.

Post resurrection. Form is not human but angelic.

Dead wrong

We will know Jesus Christ by the stripes on His Back and the nail prints on His hands and by the wound on His side. All physical signs from a human body. The Lamb who was slain. He was made a little lower than the angels, yet He arose to the highest position, seated at the right hand of God. And also saying I AM. I AM equal with God, for I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. No created angel can can receive this Glory.

In Christ

Montana Marv

Who said that the Christ (Michael) who is the leader of all the angels is a created being?

Scriptures did not say that and I certainly haven't said that, so where did you come up with this conclusion friend?

 

Jude 9 - But even the archangel Michael, when he was disputing with the devil about the body of Moses, did not dare to bring a slanderous accusation against him, but said; "The Lord Rebuke you."

 

Two separate individuals;  Jesus Christ the name above all names and an archangel Michael. The waring angel

 

Rev 12:7 - and there was war in heaven.  Michael and his angels fought against the dragon, and the dragon and his angels fought back.  But he was not strong enough, and they lost their place in heaven.

 

Col 1:15-17 - He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn (position) over all creation.  For by him (Jesus Christ) all things were created;  (angels) and on earth, visible and invisible (angels), whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him.  He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together.

 

Rev 5:11,12 - Then I looked and heard the voice of many angels, numbering thousands upon thousands, and ten thousand time ten thousand.  They encircled the Throne and the living creatures and the elders.  In a loud voice they sang; Worthy is the Lamb, who was slain, to receive power and wealth and wisdom and strength and honor and glory and praise.  The archangel Michael is one of these angels surrounding the Throne of the Lamb.  Jesus Christ is Lamb the Son of God the Father, NOT the archangel Michael.

 

In Christ

Montana Marv