thereselittleflower Posted August 1, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 58 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 5,457 Content Per Day: 1.69 Reputation: 4,220 Days Won: 37 Joined: 07/01/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted August 1, 2015 When someone believes Jesus Christ died on the Cross for our sins, he is under the blood, he is under the attonment of Jesus without any RITUALS, Who is going to put fear in the children who are under the blood? Go ahead find a way, tell his people who have obey God and have believe in his Christ , that Jesus will sent them to hell, put the fear in them, use some argeements, make them see themselves in Hell , so they run to be Baptize in water to be saved from Hell, Go ahead use water Baptism, say Jesus did not did all, say something all the time to judge them, use fear to guide them to heavens , to save them, That's why Paul spoke agains water Baptism, because of the abuse on believers. But I am not against if someone see it as a detication to a new life's direction, to leave behind the old lifestyle seeking a new one ahead of him, But you can do that by renewing your understanding , and taking a stand for it. Now if you were an idolater and you need a sing for others, re: don't invite me to partake in the idolatric retuals , for prosperity , fertility, ......... now I have Jesus for those blessings, I have renownce these powers from my life, I want the holy spirit to guide me, that ok, be water baptize, BUT DON'T JUDGE THE BLOOD OF JESUS You having bought by the blood of Jesus Christ before you were water baptize, You don't need the water Baptism to belong to God, only the blood of the LAMB. My dear friend, Paul never spoke against water baptism He spoke against factions. Jesus himself said: Mark 16:16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Your closest friendnt Posted August 1, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 18 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7,853 Content Per Day: 2.42 Reputation: 2,761 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/05/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted August 1, 2015 But if you go to a church, and they want the people to be water baptize, Then you are face with the question? Do you want them to love you and wellcome you, and look at you as a clean believer , and make you to be an usher, the you have to be water baptize, that's their way, If not they are going to see you as polluted, do you thing they can see the intention of your hart without the outwardly rituals and your confession? Judge for your self. That's why they need the rituals together with your faith. But you know not Jesus Christ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thereselittleflower Posted August 1, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 58 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 5,457 Content Per Day: 1.69 Reputation: 4,220 Days Won: 37 Joined: 07/01/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted August 1, 2015 But if you go to a church, and they want the people to be water baptize, Then you are face with the question? Do you want them to love you and wellcome you, and look at you as a clean believer , and make you to be an usher, the you have to be water baptize, that's their way, If not they are going to see you as polluted, do you thing they can see the intention of your hart without the outwardly rituals and your confession? Judge for your self. That's why they need the rituals together with your faith. But you know not Jesus Christ. Yet again Jesus himself said Mark 16:16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, And Peter says: 1 Peter 3:21 baptism now saves you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thereselittleflower Posted August 1, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 58 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 5,457 Content Per Day: 1.69 Reputation: 4,220 Days Won: 37 Joined: 07/01/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted August 1, 2015 Shiloh are you saying that God's power is limited to what is in the Bible and he can not do anything unless its in the Bible?? Really is that going to be your position? God can ONLY do what is said in the Bible? You see I don't think God has any limits at all... Perhaps your God is limited by what is written but mine is not. If God doesn't need to keep His word, then on what basis can we place any faith in Him? By your logic He could abrogate our salvation tomorrow. If God is so capricious that He promises one thing today, but takes it away tomorrow then why trust Him? You don't seem to understand the concept of God's omnipotence. There are lots of things God can't do. God can't lie, He can't break His promises, He can't die, etc. God is limited to doing only what is in line with His character and divine attributes. The Bible is God's self-disclosure. It tells us what He will and will not do, what is and is not like. But what good is that if He decides to do what He said He would not do? What is there to anchor your life and your heart to? God gave us His word to reveal Himself to us. So He has to be consistent with what is there, otherwise it would be impossible to have a relationship God, that is based on being able to put faith in Him. So IF salvation were required for salvation, then we have to be able to trust that it is always true, and not just true when the situation lends itself to it. The problem with your theology isn't about what God is limited or not limited to. The problem with your theology is that it is an assault on God's integrity and faithfulness. For y,ou God is unlimited to a degree that He can violate His own promises, and that isn't what the Bible says about God. Your theology is based on emotional and not on sound theology and exegesis of Scripture. Again you have a false gospel if you believe that salvation is conditional on baptism. What you are proposing is not the authentic New Testament Christian faith. I think we understand God's omnipotence much better than you realize. Our God is not so small as you see Him to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thereselittleflower Posted August 1, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 58 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 5,457 Content Per Day: 1.69 Reputation: 4,220 Days Won: 37 Joined: 07/01/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted August 1, 2015 Neither has made the connection as how being born of water is flesh. How is being born of water mean being born from your mother. Im sorry but your paralleles are an incredible stretch. Where else does Jesus say that being born of water is coming from your mother. Or where does anyone else say such a thing. Jesus talks of water and spirit and where does wate and spirit appear together? John 1. It says that John the Baptist is BAPTIZING with WATER and then the SPIRIT descends upon Jesus. Not sure about your mothers but mine was not water. Mine was flesh. I was born of flesh. When you get baptized you are born of water and spirit. So again I'm being accused of something that is being done by others. It is simply a way of justifying not believing Jesus' clear words and the words of scripture echoing them: Jesus himself said Mark 16:16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, And Peter says: 1 Peter 3:21 baptism now saves you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Your closest friendnt Posted August 1, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 18 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7,853 Content Per Day: 2.42 Reputation: 2,761 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/05/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted August 1, 2015 I am water baptize my self, even many times, every church that I went , they want to be the ones to baptize you, I accept Jesus instruction, speaking to retualistic nation, not just for that. Jesus said, after you beleive, separate your selfs from the the rest of the world, follow me, you are my nation, a holy nation, save your selfs, not from Hell, that's my blood for it, but from the coraption of the world, I did not say no, only not to use it to judge faith in Jesus , the blood of the Attoment. Not to scare the children of the blood of Jesus that they are going to Hell. Free them from the fear of Hell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thereselittleflower Posted August 1, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 58 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 5,457 Content Per Day: 1.69 Reputation: 4,220 Days Won: 37 Joined: 07/01/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted August 1, 2015 One key Scripture reference to being "born again" or "regenerated" is John 3:5, where Jesus says, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God." Early Christians uniformly identified this verse with baptism. Water baptism is the way, they said, that we are born again and receive new life—a fact that is supported elsewhere in Scripture (Rom. 6:3–4; Col. 2:12–13; Titus 3:5) Your quote is misleading. I am providing a link to a site that explains what beliefs were held and the reason for those beliefs Water baptism was a tricky issue in the early church. As usual, I will give my short, concise answer, then follow that with a bit more historical context which will illustrate why there is not an easy answer. The short answer is that ALL the early fathers believed that part of the conversion experience was going under the water in baptism. At the same time NONE of the early fathers said faith without baptism was impossible - in other words, NO church father argued that salvation was impossible without water baptism. It was simply assumed that a believer would be baptized. Now the longer answer: Without knowing the historical context (especially of the second century) you could read the early fathers and come away thinking that most of them believed water baptism was essential in salvation. The danger with reading the early fathers is taking them literally without knowing the historical context READ THE REST HERE The apostles baptized people in water after they were speaking in tongues, so either those people were filled with the Holy Spirit and spoke or they were babbling or worse had another spirit. While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit came on all who heard the message. 45The circumcised believers who had come with Peter were astonished that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on Gentiles.46For they heard them speaking in tonguesb and praising God. Then Peter said, 47“Surely no one can stand in the way of their being baptized with water. They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have.” 48So he ordered that they be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked Peter to stay with them for a few days. Acts 10 How can you state that baptism is necessary for salvation if Gentiles were speaking in tongues? Apparently Peter recognized the Holy Spirit operating through newly saved individuals and then proceeded with water baptism AFTER that fact. IMO, there would be some very deep concerns if people were demonstrating a gift of the Holy Spirit without being saved, don't you think? Why do you think that proves baptism is unnecessary for salvation? Jesus said "whoever believes AND are baptized will be saved." So just because the Holy Spirit came on them before they were baptized means they are part of "whoever believes" - that is one half of the equation leading to salvation given us by Jesus Himself. The other half is 'AND ARE BAPTIZED' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thereselittleflower Posted August 1, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 58 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 5,457 Content Per Day: 1.69 Reputation: 4,220 Days Won: 37 Joined: 07/01/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted August 1, 2015 I am water baptize my self, even many times, every church that I went , they want to be the ones to baptize you, I accept Jesus instruction, speaking to retualistic nation, not just for that. Jesus said, after you beleive, separate your selfs from the the rest of the world, follow me, you are my nation, a holy nation, save your selfs, not from Hell, that's my blood for it, but from the coraption of the world, I did not say no, only not to use it to judge faith in Jesus , the blood of the Attoment. Not to scare the children of the blood of Jesus that they are going to Hell. Free them from the fear of Hell. There is only one baptism for the remission of sins. When churches want to rebaptize someone, they are essentially saying the first baptism was of no effect. That takes what Jesus' said about believing and being baptzed and tosses it out the window and denies salvation already received. They do despite the Spirit of Grace. Once you are baptized in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit as commanded in scripture by Jesus Himself, Matthew 28:19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, there is no need for another. Those who so require one are greatly mistaken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Your closest friendnt Posted August 1, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 18 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7,853 Content Per Day: 2.42 Reputation: 2,761 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/05/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted August 1, 2015 Peter baptize the Jews believer as no to go back and participate in the temple rituals, to follow the new direction, the same for the idolaters not to go back to what they new before they believe. To day people baptize the catholics not to go back and practices of the RCC, to find their freedom from rituals and see Jesus only, Not mix paganism and Jesus . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Your closest friendnt Posted August 1, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 18 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7,853 Content Per Day: 2.42 Reputation: 2,761 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/05/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted August 1, 2015 Thank I did not baptize again for my self, but only for them, not to fight with them. I do believe that if you are water baptize you become sin conscious , so you are save from comiting ( stops you for comiting the same sins of the past, just like repentance) Then yes it saves you from comiting sins, all over again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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