Rodion_Raskolnikov_ Posted April 11, 2015 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 141 Content Per Day: 0.04 Reputation: 145 Days Won: 1 Joined: 03/05/2015 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/02/1974 Share Posted April 11, 2015 When Einstein was very religious ,and then he became in the habit of using the left hand brain which analyses and gathers information ,as even if he knew certain things to be true from his right hand brain ,he would not have been able to pass this information on .He was most certainly a deist,and mentions God a lot which was annoying to those who were atheists,whom he detested . A deist is bound for hell as fast as any atheist. The Bible doesn't leave much wiggle room for who gets in and who doesn't, it's pretty clear what you need to believe. You ask, which god . Well in many ways it is a learning process to find the true God .Some are so unsure in their belief which comes from the mind only and not the heart ,that they condemn all kinds of discussio about other religions ,but I took the risk and I refound the God of my chilhood ,after many years lost in the wilderness . Only the God of Abraham ,and His son Jesus christ have fulfilled all that I needed and brought me Healing and happiness .Although being human and living on earth is never perfect ,by allowing Him into my life , I can be truly happy . There are more concrete things which mighr convince you intellectually ,but eventually you have to take the risk to make a personal realtionship with God Himself no matter how much evidence you have . I was raised to believe the Bible, I assumed it to be true up until my late 20s. I've never had any experience that lead me to believe I was on the right track so to speak. I just believed that I was. A simple example .Some people can hear music,and tap it out at once .Many people can hear music and after a few répétitions can tap it out ,they have 'an ear for music' . Some people can never 'hear music '. So for them there is no point in playing it over and over for they just cannot hear it .Lifetime atheists cannot 'hear God ' ,and no matter how much they study they will never 'hear Him' . So the only thing for them to do is to accept their 'deafness' and asking God to give them the gift ; to keep reading His word, practising generosity and so on . He is ever patient with those who try . I feel like trying for 20 years was a good effort. If it didn't happen by then I'd say I am reasonable to conclude that I'm praying to something that isn't listening anyway. Ok, Bonky. I know you know about David. I'm going to remind you anyway. David was an adulterer and a murderer. He was still called "a man after God's own heart". Jesus was crucified next to a thief that accepted salvation...right at the end of his life. Only God knows a person's heart and only God has the omniscience to decide who is worthy of salvation. Only God, the Creator. He gave us His Word. We should obey it...should. But, we (invariably) don't. This applies to deists as well as atheists, or anyone else. Even adulterers and murderers. At least atheists can claim some level of ignorance. David could never claim that. The difference is that when Nathan confronted David with the truth of his sins, David recognized his sins and immediately prayed for forgiveness. Most of us aren't wise enough to do this. Maybe that's why David was "a man after God's own heart"? Either way, living in disobedience isn't an immediate disqualification for salvation. Only the continued and repeated willful ignorance and rejection of salvation can ever separate us from God. By our own individual choice. If our individual choice manifests itself in the form of a philosophy: like atheism, or deism...So be it. It can mean this, but not definitively. Only God knows where every heart truly is, and which place every soul ends up in. None of what I said, by the way, is any excuse to live in disobedience. I only mean than no man can definitively say where God will place His creations in the afterlife, Heaven or Hell. He is the Judge. It is His choice, after all. Take my words with a grain of salt but "work out your own salvation with trembling and fear". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodion_Raskolnikov_ Posted April 11, 2015 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 141 Content Per Day: 0.04 Reputation: 145 Days Won: 1 Joined: 03/05/2015 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/02/1974 Share Posted April 11, 2015 When Einstein was very religious ,and then he became in the habit of using the left hand brain which analyses and gathers information ,as even if he knew certain things to be true from his right hand brain ,he would not have been able to pass this information on .He was most certainly a deist,and mentions God a lot which was annoying to those who were atheists,whom he detested . A deist is bound for hell as fast as any atheist. The Bible doesn't leave much wiggle room for who gets in and who doesn't, it's pretty clear what you need to believe. You ask, which god . Well in many ways it is a learning process to find the true God .Some are so unsure in their belief which comes from the mind only and not the heart ,that they condemn all kinds of discussio about other religions ,but I took the risk and I refound the God of my chilhood ,after many years lost in the wilderness . Only the God of Abraham ,and His son Jesus christ have fulfilled all that I needed and brought me Healing and happiness .Although being human and living on earth is never perfect ,by allowing Him into my life , I can be truly happy . There are more concrete things which mighr convince you intellectually ,but eventually you have to take the risk to make a personal realtionship with God Himself no matter how much evidence you have . I was raised to believe the Bible, I assumed it to be true up until my late 20s. I've never had any experience that lead me to believe I was on the right track so to speak. I just believed that I was. A simple example .Some people can hear music,and tap it out at once .Many people can hear music and after a few répétitions can tap it out ,they have 'an ear for music' . Some people can never 'hear music '. So for them there is no point in playing it over and over for they just cannot hear it .Lifetime atheists cannot 'hear God ' ,and no matter how much they study they will never 'hear Him' . So the only thing for them to do is to accept their 'deafness' and asking God to give them the gift ; to keep reading His word, practising generosity and so on . He is ever patient with those who try . I feel like trying for 20 years was a good effort. If it didn't happen by then I'd say I am reasonable to conclude that I'm praying to something that isn't listening anyway. Bonky. I have to add. I've prayed to God thousands and thousands of times. Rarely do I ever feel an "emotional" response. Or any response. I'm not known for being emotional. In fact, I'm known for being insensitive. My wife calls me Warf. She's a big Star Trek fan. I don't know what you're praying for. It's none of my business, really. Regardless of what it is, though, God is not required to answer...ever. He is the Creator and we are the creations. That's just how it is. We exist for Him, not the other way 'round. "Ask not what my God can do for me, but what I can do for my God?" To turn a popular quote. I do understand where you're coming from. This issue is something I've always struggled with, and always will. I don't "feel" as though I love God and I don't "feel" as though He loves me. He does, though (love me). He created me, after all. Every breath I take is evidence of His continued love and Providence. Even if I don't "feel" as though I love Him I still owe Him my obedience. My obedience is the only way I can show my love, regardless of how I "feel". As Jesus said, "If you love Me obey Me." The opposite can also be true. If you don't love Jesus then you won't obey Him. It's as simple as that. Regardless of any affirmation or how we "feel" during prayer, or anytime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Thallasa Posted April 11, 2015 Share Posted April 11, 2015 Well Bonky you have had some brilliant answers ,all better than I could ever write , so I am going to say a prayer that God will shine His Light on you and that you will be patient .I must admit ,it was not until the story of Abraham and Isaac clicked, that I really felt God's grace .In giving up total control of my life, and those of the one I loved most ,to my Creator, holding nothing back ,He then gave me back more than I could dream of .However I had to be patient (my hardest lesson to learn) and have faith in prayer ,as in adoration ,not asking for favours . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
65Michael Posted May 8, 2015 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 4 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 29 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 6 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/07/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted May 8, 2015 (edited) The lack of modisty in faith. Some do axially believe they fully understand the will of God. That we should all believe just as they believe. I'm that way about a few things myself. I really don't know much to argue about. The little I do know seems to cause disagreements. I was surprised by this many times. I had to learn to support my knowledge. Still even when I use biblical text to present my knowledge they simply dismiss what I say. Saying whatever dode. This problem has to do with perception of knowledge sometimes and the desire to remain ignorent at others. We are all unique individuals. We all perseive things a little differently. Some people will attack you for your different perception or their desire to remain ignorent. I've had it happen a lot of times. When faced with the real truth and it conflicts with a false doctrine learned over many years people will even become violent. This problem is what we who seek to learn and share truth must face with modesty and love in our harts. May God be with you in your jurny to the truth that is God. Edited May 8, 2015 by 65Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reconstructionist89 Posted July 1, 2015 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 9 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 33 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 31 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/30/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted July 1, 2015 Science presupposes the God of the Bible. The scientific method of induction presupposes uniformity in nature. If an atheistic scientist were to be consistent with his worldview assumptions of random, chaos, and change the scientific method would be impossible much less intelligence. As for facts, no one interprets facts in the same fashion. Unbelievers knowledge suppresses the truth of God as the creator and controller of all things. Unbelieving scientist can count but cannot account for their ability to do so in terms of their worldview. D the Christian however has no issue at reconciling the scientific method. For uniformity in occurrences are under the sovereign creator. The atheistic scientist borrows presuppositions from the Christian worldview but suppresses it's conclusion in unrighteousness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reconstructionist89 Posted July 1, 2015 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 9 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 33 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 31 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/30/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted July 1, 2015 Thus we can say with Augustine I believe in order to understand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FresnoJoe Posted July 2, 2015 Group: Graduated to Heaven Followers: 207 Topic Count: 60 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 8,651 Content Per Day: 1.17 Reputation: 5,761 Days Won: 4 Joined: 01/31/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/04/1943 Share Posted July 2, 2015 Thus we can say with Augustine I believe in order to understand. A Christmas For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them. Ephesians 2:8-10 (ESV) Present So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Romans 10:17 (KJV) ~ What A Wonder Thy word is true from the beginning: and every one of thy righteous judgments endureth for ever. Psalms 119:160 (KJV) It Thy word have I hid in mine heart, that I might not sin against thee. Psalms 119:11 (KJV) Is I bow down toward your holy temple and give thanks to your name for your steadfast love and your faithfulness, for you have exalted above all things your name and your word. Psalm 138:2 (ESV) The Bible contains the mind of God, the state of man, the way of salvation, the doom of sinners, and the happiness of believers. Its doctrines are holy, its precepts are binding, its histories are true, and its decisions are immutable. Read it to be wise, believe it to be safe, practice it to be holy. It contains light to direct you, food to support you, and comfort to cheer you. It is the traveler’s map, the pilgrim’s staff, the pilot’s compass, the soldier’s sword, and the Christian’s character. Here Paradise is restored, Heaven opened, and the gates of hell disclosed. CHRIST is its grand subject, our good its design, and the glory of God its end. It should fill the memory, rule the heart, and guide the feet. Read it slowly, frequently and prayerfully. It is a mine of wealth, a paradise of glory, and a river of pleasure. It is given you in life, will be opened at the judgment and will be remembered forever. It Involves the highest responsibility, will condemn all who trifle with its sacred contents. From The Front Of My Gideon New Testament Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conservator Posted July 10, 2015 Group: Members Followers: 2 Topic Count: 4 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 29 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 37 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/23/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/20/1942 Share Posted July 10, 2015 Get a copy of Lee Stroble's book "The Case For A Creator" and it will answer a lot of questions. No I don't get any commission but it sure opened my eyes. Right on. Plus his book "The Case for Christ" is excelent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alphaparticle Posted July 10, 2015 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 48 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,363 Content Per Day: 0.35 Reputation: 403 Days Won: 5 Joined: 08/01/2013 Status: Offline Author Share Posted July 10, 2015 Science presupposes the God of the Bible. The scientific method of induction presupposes uniformity in nature. If an atheistic scientist were to be consistent with his worldview assumptions of random, chaos, and change the scientific method would be impossible much less intelligence. As for facts, no one interprets facts in the same fashion. Unbelievers knowledge suppresses the truth of God as the creator and controller of all things. Unbelieving scientist can count but cannot account for their ability to do so in terms of their worldview. D the Christian however has no issue at reconciling the scientific method. For uniformity in occurrences are under the sovereign creator. The atheistic scientist borrows presuppositions from the Christian worldview but suppresses it's conclusion in unrighteousness. I don't think I agree with this line of reasoning. Why couldn't the atheist simply assert things are not chaotic but lacks further explanation than that? To make the scientific method work, the atheist asserts uniformity in nature and causality. Those could be asserted as a matter of brute facts. After all, as a believer I run into a similar epistemological 'wall'. I cannot explain or justify to anyone fully my belief in the gospel, but the faith is there, as a gift from God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enoch2021 Posted July 11, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 11 Topic Count: 19 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,396 Content Per Day: 0.90 Reputation: 730 Days Won: 4 Joined: 12/21/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/26/1963 Share Posted July 11, 2015 Science presupposes the God of the Bible. The scientific method of induction presupposes uniformity in nature. If an atheistic scientist were to be consistent with his worldview assumptions of random, chaos, and change the scientific method would be impossible much less intelligence. As for facts, no one interprets facts in the same fashion. Unbelievers knowledge suppresses the truth of God as the creator and controller of all things. Unbelieving scientist can count but cannot account for their ability to do so in terms of their worldview. D the Christian however has no issue at reconciling the scientific method. For uniformity in occurrences are under the sovereign creator. The atheistic scientist borrows presuppositions from the Christian worldview but suppresses it's conclusion in unrighteousness. I don't think I agree with this line of reasoning. Why couldn't the atheist simply assert things are not chaotic but lacks further explanation than that? To make the scientific method work, the atheist asserts uniformity in nature and causality. Those could be asserted as a matter of brute facts. After all, as a believer I run into a similar epistemological 'wall'. I cannot explain or justify to anyone fully my belief in the gospel, but the faith is there, as a gift from God. ============================================================================================================ Why couldn't the atheist simply assert things are not chaotic but lacks further explanation than that? Simply Assert? Well yea, anybody can "simply assert" whatever they wish...it's the SUPPORT of those assertions that differentiates the Lunatic from the Rational. And "things" are chaotic...the Immutable Laws of Physics "2LOT" is a Testimony to that very fact. To make the scientific method work, the atheist asserts uniformity in nature and causality. On what basis can they make that assertion if their World View Precludes a Creator/ First Cause? Basically, they just hit the c4 Fire with the Hammer. How can they assert Causality if "Matter" is all that there is. You invariable have to go all the way back to the beginning and ask the question....what caused Matter/Energy? It surely didn't cause itself, or else it would mean it Existed prior to it's Existence...which is Logical Seppuku. In essence, the atheist MUST adopt the Christian World View to then go ahead and dispute the existence of a Creator; A Pre-suppositional Kleptomaniac motif. It's quite Mind Numbing with mere Formica deep scrutiny. Then Next, they have an Incoherent Kung Fu Death Grip on "Science". Science says this or that....and Banter on about: evolution, big bangs, multiverses, billions of years, ad nauseam. How on Earth can that be??? Since... "Formalized hypotheses contain two variables. One is "independent" and the other is "dependent." The independent variable is the one you, the "scientist" control and the dependent variable is the one that you observe and/or measure the results."---csub.edu So the Independent Variable is the one Variable that the Scientist CONTROLS and is VITAL and INDISPENSABLE in an "actual" Scientific Hypothesis. So pray tell, How can you have an Independent Variable (THAT YOU CONTROL) on a FOREVER PAST UNOBSERVED EVENT without a Time Machine???? Answer: You can't, it's Preposterous Absurdity. How then can these be Science or "THEORIES" when a Scientific Theory is Validated Hypotheses.... and a Formal Scientific Hypothesis contains Independent Variables? Answer: They're NOT! They're Fairytale Stories masquerading incoherently under the guise of the term "Science" and have about as much to do with "Science" as Humpty Dumpty. @ the end of the day, the atheist is checkmated six ways from Sunday in every direction both Logically and Scientifically. It's almost as if all this.... was contrived. Food for thought Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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