Is Christmas a Pagan festival?

[Guest shiloh357]

 

There is nothing in the Bible about celebrating Jesus' birth, but there is also nothing commanded against celebrating His birth, either.

Don't get me wrong, I'm very glad He came to save us in the way that He did. I'm in no way trying to diminish His birth, but many believers don't even realize that He already existed before, and that nothing was created without Him. I think most people just blindly go along with their family's tradition, without giving much thought about its origins. This can be a very touchy subject and it's good that we have kept the peace in this discussion.

Cheers

 

And that's the thing...   The "origins" being pagan isn't really substantiated.  There a lot of claims being made, but there is not one archeological piece of evidence that has ever uncovered a "Christmas" tradition in the ancient pagan world.   What you have is one guy quoting another, who quoted someone else and there is not one actual piece of evidence that is offered up.  People just assume the claims are true and they run with it.

 

It's like that verse cited above from Jeremiah.  it is assumed by some to be referring to the Christmas tree, but there is not one example from the ancient ear eastern world at the time of Jeremiah where such a tradition existed.

 

It's just that when we really break down these claims that Christmas comes from a pagan religion and we put that claim to the test, we come up with nothing..

[rollinTHUNDER]

There is nothing in the Bible about celebrating Jesus' birth, but there is also nothing commanded against celebrating His birth, either.

Don't get me wrong, I'm very glad He came to save us in the way that He did. I'm in no way trying to diminish His birth, but many believers don't even realize that He already existed before, and that nothing was created without Him. I think most people just blindly go along with their family's tradition, without giving much thought about its origins. This can be a very touchy subject and it's good that we have kept the peace in this discussion.

Cheers

And that's the thing...   The "origins" being pagan isn't really substantiated.  There a lot of claims being made, but there is not one archeological piece of evidence that has ever uncovered a "Christmas" tradition in the ancient pagan world.   What you have is one guy quoting another, who quoted someone else and there is not one actual piece of evidence that is offered up.  People just assume the claims are true and they run with it.

 

It's like that verse cited above from Jeremiah.  it is assumed by some to be referring to the Christmas tree, but there is not one example from the ancient ear eastern world at the time of Jeremiah where such a tradition existed.

 

It's just that when we really break down these claims that Christmas comes from a pagan religion and we put that claim to the test, we come up with nothing..

Well, I can only speak for myself and my own convictions, and I agree it is difficult to get a good handle on it because it goes back so far in history. But it's clear to me that it did not originate from God's Word and believers in the first century did not celebrate it.

I know that it's very difficult to come away from it, mostly because it's hard to get your relatives to understand. I remember the early years, telling them that if they couldn't understand it, at least respect it, and even that was a struggle for a few years. They seemed to feel guilty for leaving us out, so they would try to go around it, sending things after the new year instead. We stood firm, though, and did not give in. We returned everything to them and did not even open any cards. They finally quit sending the gifts but they kept sending the cards anyway, so I just kept telling them they would go into the garbage unopened.

They do respect our beliefs now, but now the struggle is with brethren in our church. I refuse to set foot in a church that has a Christmas tree up. And this holiday has gotten very out of hand now. Christmas day has become so commercialized these days that it is no longer just a day, but it's become a season. Immediately after Thanksgiving, the next Sunday they set up the tree and it stays up until after the new year comes in, so we just stay home during their new season. I can truly say that we aren't missing anything, for no truth is taught during this time anyway. And it's nearly impossible trying to tell the multitude that greets us with "merry Christmas," that we don't celebrate it. There was never enough time to explain to each and every one so we found our only option was not to go during that time. It was always depressing and sad to see our brethren keeping their traditions going. As long as we keep our distance at that time, we feel blessed and that God is very pleased that we came out of it. But to each his own.

Cheers

[Guest shiloh357]

Hi Rollin

 

I agree with you that Christmas is a problematic holiday with the commercialism.  It's a real mess and we have allowed the retail and entertainment insdustries to make a mess out of it.

 

But if you can't verify any of the historical claims, why believe those claims as if they are true?

 

Granted, it is not in the Bible but that fact on its own doesn't make it a sin.

[rollinTHUNDER]

Granted, it is not in the Bible but that fact on its own doesn't make it a sin.

Very true! That's why I condemn no one, for I am not the judge. All we can do is follow our own heart and convictions. We simply withdraw and choose not to join in the festivities.

Cheers

[Guest shiloh357]

 

Granted, it is not in the Bible but that fact on its own doesn't make it a sin.

Very true! That's why I condemn no one, for I am not the judge. All we can do is follow our own heart and convictions. We simply withdraw and choose not to join in the festivities.

Cheers

 

That I understand, but your claim that Christmas is pagan, is a historical claim.  If you can't verify that claim historically, why continue believing it is true?

[rollinTHUNDER]

Granted, it is not in the Bible but that fact on its own doesn't make it a sin.

Very true! That's why I condemn no one, for I am not the judge. All we can do is follow our own heart and convictions. We simply withdraw and choose not to join in the festivities.

Cheers

That I understand, but your claim that Christmas is pagan, is a historical claim.  If you can't verify that claim historically, why continue believing it is true?

This is what I've come to believe after my own research. Would you feel better if I said it was a mixture of paganism and twisted scripture? It's either all truth or it isn't. Many say we need to keep Christ in Christmas, assuming that He was in it from the beginning. The real question is: Was Christ ever in Christmas to begin with, or has scripture been twisted to create the so-called Christmas story?

[Guest shiloh357]

 

 

 

Granted, it is not in the Bible but that fact on its own doesn't make it a sin.

Very true! That's why I condemn no one, for I am not the judge. All we can do is follow our own heart and convictions. We simply withdraw and choose not to join in the festivities.

Cheers

 

That I understand, but your claim that Christmas is pagan, is a historical claim.  If you can't verify that claim historically, why continue believing it is true?

 

This is what I've come to believe after my own research.

What is the nature of your research?  What is the nature of the evidence you have turned up?

 

Would you feel better if I said it was a mixture of paganism and twisted scripture? It's either all truth or it isn't. Many say we need to keep Christ in Christmas, assuming that He was in it from the beginning. The real question is: Was Christ ever in Christmas to begin with, or has scripture been twisted to create the so-called Christmas story?

 

 

What do you mean by "twisted Scripture?"    I mean I realize that the Bible doesn't give us the number of wise men and I realize that there as no innkeeper mentioned in the text, nor a stable.   But in what way is Scripture "twisted?"

[rollinTHUNDER]

Granted, it is not in the Bible but that fact on its own doesn't make it a sin.

Very true! That's why I condemn no one, for I am not the judge. All we can do is follow our own heart and convictions. We simply withdraw and choose not to join in the festivities.

Cheers

That I understand, but your claim that Christmas is pagan, is a historical claim.  If you can't verify that claim historically, why continue believing it is true?

This is what I've come to believe after my own research.

What is the nature of your research?  What is the nature of the evidence you have turned up?

 

Would you feel better if I said it was a mixture of paganism and twisted scripture? It's either all truth or it isn't. Many say we need to keep Christ in Christmas, assuming that He was in it from the beginning. The real question is: Was Christ ever in Christmas to begin with, or has scripture been twisted to create the so-called Christmas story?

What do you mean by "twisted Scripture?"    I mean I realize that the Bible doesn't give us the number of wise men and I realize that there as no innkeeper mentioned in the text, nor a stable.   But in what way is Scripture "twisted?"

Or the fact that the wise men (magi) didn't show up until Christ was about two years old?

There's nothing wrong with the scripture itself. It's fulfilled prophecy that shows how Christ would come into the world.

But it's how the Romans twisted it to concoct their cute little Christmas story. If nothing else, it should be very telling to everyone that the word "Christmas" is nowhere to be found in God's Word. If this is really a Christian holiday, why is it that almost the entire world is celebrating it, when most of them hate Christ? 95% of the 24 houses on my street are all decked out with lights and Christmas trees, yet only three other families are Christians.

[Guest shiloh357]

 

Or the fact that the wise men (magi) didn't show up until Christ was about two years old?

 

I hear that...    But I am not finding that as being qualified as "twisting" Scripture.  When a person 'twists' Scripture it usually amounts to doctrinal matters, not historical matters.  Whether one believes there were three wise ment or two or whatever doesn't change anything. 

 

If nothing else, it should be very telling to everyone that the word "Christmas" is nowhere to be found in God's Word.

 

yes, but again, that fact doesn't make it wrong as a tradition.  If there were a commandment against celebrating Jesus' birth, that would be a different story.

 

 

If this is really a Christian holiday, why is it that almost the entire world is celebrating it, when most of them hate Christ? 95% of the 24 houses on my street are all decked out with lights and Christmas trees, yet only three other families are Christians.

 

 

 

Much of what relegate as secular traditions have their origin in Christianity.  Christmas is the one time of year that every one, even sinners consent to hearing about Jesus.  It is the one time of year when even nonbelievers sing songs that include Jesus in them.   They shut us out when we try to mention Jesus any other time of year, but this one time when there is just no escaping Him on their part.

[hmbld]

Much of what relegate as secular traditions have their origin in Christianity.  Christmas is the one time of year that every one, even sinners consent to hearing about Jesus.  It is the one time of year when even nonbelievers sing songs that include Jesus in them.   They shut us out when we try to mention Jesus any other time of year, but this one time when there is just no escaping Him on their part.

 

 

 

 

 

I agree with this, regardless of how our current Christmas came about, even the hardest guys at my workplace will play christmas music, and talk openly about Jesus.  I especially think it gives opportunity to talk to our kids and grandkids, this one time of year more than any other people seem a little more open. To say merry christmas, just seems like a chance for someone to think about the "Christ" part of christmas.