Guest shiloh357 Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 BE, When it comes to the IDF and the measures they took... They did what they could to save civilian lives, but there is only so much they can do. There is no such thing as a sanitary war. If Israel had not taken the measures they did, the Palestinians in Gaza would be extinct. Israel did what they could, but when Hamas puts civilians in harm's way there are going to be innocent people killed. That's the reality of war; and it's a reality you don't seem to understand. Until we fight our wars on the moon, there will always be innocent people killed in war. That's the nature of it. You need to grow up and come to grips with that. The Muslims in GAZA are responsible for the deaths of those people they put in harm's way in order to make propaganda points with people like you who do not understand what is going on and don't know what they are talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burning_Ember Posted February 14, 2015 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 21 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 2,009 Content Per Day: 0.30 Reputation: 100 Days Won: 3 Joined: 09/20/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted February 14, 2015 When I first saw this thread I was pretty ticked off. She is an arizonan and the state is taking her death hard. The first post was pretty hostile and I didnt care for the manner in which this was presented. But I checked into the information. I couldnt find anything at first to confirm or deny the information presented. But eventually I found a blog her friends put up, with her words and her views on it. http://www.forkayla.org/home On it are her views of palestine. http://www.forkayla.org/palestine/ Under her achievements. International Solidarity Movement supports the Palestinian popular struggle against occupation and apartheid. Kayla accompanied families in their homes and children going to school. http://www.forkayla.org/about-kayla/ It sounds to me more like she was a social justice activist (as seen in this blog site) who was just plain deceived about her views on israel and palestine. What I do find disturbing is the reaction of some who are gloating about her death (in media not necessarily in this thread). When the 3 jewish teens were killed, and muslims gloated but then a muslim was killed and jews did not gloat, I was impressed with the difference in attitudes between muslims and jews. With kayla, I see pro israeli people gloating, acting no different than those who are pro muslim and gloat. The world wont see pro israeli folks as anything but thugs if they gloat like this. I'm just going to refer people this answer here. Thanks Jade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted February 14, 2015 Share Posted February 14, 2015 Yes, Kayla was just a typical uninformed anti-Semitic Liberal that didn't understand the dynamics or the history of the conflict and didn't care to know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burning_Ember Posted February 14, 2015 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 21 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 2,009 Content Per Day: 0.30 Reputation: 100 Days Won: 3 Joined: 09/20/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted February 14, 2015 Sorry, but I strongly disagree. Israel is defending the people of Israel from a very real enemy. If a person from the U.S. goes to Israel, and attempts to stop Israels army from defending Israeli's, by blocking them while doing their jobs, that person is an enemy combatant. They are fighting for the enemies of Israel. It has been made very very clear that there are unarmed Palestinians who will stand in front of real targets, knowing that Israel attempts to be careful about killing unarmed people while fighting the enemy. It is a Palestinian tactic of war. To be unarmed and protect the Palestinian army or Hamas or other terrorists is their attack strategy. It is also their propaganda strategy. So, she engaged in the enemies military strategy, becoming an enemy combatant. If Israels army was not so restrained and so dedicated to minimizing the casualties of unarmed civilians working with the terrorists, she would not have left still living. You see, the terrorists do not have the same moral restraints that Israel subscribes to. She was captured and killed by the people she was trying to protect. She entered a war zone, became engaged in the enemies military strategy, and then was killed by the enemy she was aiding. That enemy is very real. So are the number of civilian deaths. And there have been far too many, and I've seen too many photos, and too much footage, too much documentation to believe that the IDF took every measure possible to save innocent lives. They can do better. The enemy is very real, and so is the fact that the enemy does not wear a uniform but dresses like civilians and parades as civilians to gain propaganda points. And the enemy does target any Israeli, including men, women and children so they make no attempt to reduce civilian casualties. To them an Israeli civilian casualty is something to be celebrated. And, they have no issues using Palestinian men women and children a shields. Yes, the IDF takes every measure possible while protecting the citizens of Israel as their first goal. The enemy takes no measures to protect innocent lives, but instead will purposely put innocent lives at risk, and celebrate the death of innocent lives. I get very very tired of those who blame Israel who tries to save innocent lives, while remaining silent about the atrocities committed by Hamas and others. Where is your outcry for the Israeli children who were targetted. And that is why Kayla Mueller is not innocent. She stood on the side of the terrorists who murder innocent children, Israels and their own children, and tried to block the Israeli army from protecting. Is it a surprise that the terrorists kidnapped a woman who fought for them? No. That is the standard actions of terrorists. They use people until they are expendable. Kayla joined in and assisted terrorists, against Israel. In her death, the terrorists she helped, tried to use her death as a propoganda tool. I suggest you take a look through the websites Ayin Jade posted and tell me what you see there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayin jade Posted February 14, 2015 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 44 Topic Count: 6,178 Topics Per Day: 0.87 Content Count: 43,795 Content Per Day: 6.20 Reputation: 11,243 Days Won: 58 Joined: 01/03/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted February 14, 2015 Yes, Kayla was just a typical uninformed anti-Semitic Liberal that didn't understand the dynamics or the history of the conflict and didn't care to know. She was in college. Christian college no less. But it speaks to why she got liberal views. The town she lived in is a conservative town, very conservative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burning_Ember Posted February 14, 2015 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 21 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 2,009 Content Per Day: 0.30 Reputation: 100 Days Won: 3 Joined: 09/20/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted February 14, 2015 I didn't even take a look at what some people in conservative media were saying about Kayla, Jade, but.... Wow. I really took a look and that stuff is... Beyond terrible. I don't think I can even link to what Debbie Schlussel wrote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted February 14, 2015 Share Posted February 14, 2015 BE, the stuff that Jade posted do not contradict or refute anything that was contained in the OP. Kayla Mueller, like most Liberals was a terrorist enabler. She didn't see herself that way, but like most Liberals she had believed the typical lies that the liberal media puts about Israel, Islam and the Arab narrative about Israel's existence. Kayla Mueller was nothing but the typical naïve ignorant Liberal. You don't like what conservatives say because frankly, it probably contains more truth than you have the ability to face up to. Schlussel is right about Kayla. I would not use the expletives she used, but Debbie Schlussel is correct in her assessment of not only Kayla, but all of those who with her and the ISM promoted their own brand of hatred and racism. In fact, Schlussel says thing about those who are pro-Palestinian that I have been saying for years on this board. The ISM is not a benign humanitarian organization. It is a pro-terror, anti-Israel, anti-Semitic organization meant to frustrate Israel and stand in solidarity with Palestinian terrorists. Kayla promoted hate and racism and did it by pretending to care about the Palestinians. Groups like the ISM should be exposed for their hypocritical backdoor racism and promotion of hate and violence in the name of "human rights." Pro-Palestinianism is just another face of hate. No one should gloat in her death, but she does not deserve to be honored as a humanitarian. Mueller was decidedly pro-terror and anti-Semitic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 14, 2015 Share Posted February 14, 2015 the link doesn't seem to work Friday, February 13, 2015 The Real Kayla Mueller Kayla-Mueller-YouTube By Matthew Vadum The presumed Islamic State murder victim Kayla Mueller isn’t quite the saintly martyr that President Obama and the media are trying to make Americans believe. Family and friends told reporters Mueller was “a deeply idealistic young woman eager to help those less fortunate.” A neighbor of hers, a 66 year-old Vietnam veteran, said Mueller “represented everything good about being an American. In the outgoing battle between good and evil, she represented the best of the good. She took great risks to help other people.” Fresh from the golf course, President Obama praised Mueller effusively, saying she was “the best of America,” and adding that she “worked with humanitarian organizations in India, Israel, and the Palestinian territories, compelled by her desire to serve others.” Kayla’s “compassion and dedication to assisting those in need shows us that even amongst unconscionable evil, the essential decency of humanity can live on.” Only someone with Obama’s twisted, pro-Islamist perspective could lie so passionately on Mueller’s behalf. It turns out the 26-year-old Islamic State hostage killed last week in Syria wasn’t many of the things her supporters described her as. Mueller wasn’t a humanitarian aid worker. She wasn’t a peace activist. She wasn’t trying to make things better for everyone in the Middle East. She was part of the problem, an ally with medieval theocratic totalitarians against western civilization. Mueller was an Islamic terrorist sympathizer who worked for International Solidarity Movement (ISM), which certainly is not a humanitarian organization. ISM is a terrorist-linked organization that attempts to sabotage the anti-terrorism activities of Israeli Defense Forces (IDF). ISM backs the enemies of Israel, including Hamas, and those in the Palestinian Authority who seek to destroy Israel. ISM said Mueller “worked with Palestinians nonviolently resisting the confiscation and demolitions of their homes and lands.” Mueller falsely accused the IDF of atrocities and boasted in Internet posts that she participated in anti-Israel demonstrations and supported Palestinians hurling rocks at Israelis, which she regarded as an “nonviolent” act. As she saw it, Israelis were oppressors and Palestinians were heroic victims. In a October 2010 pro-terrorist screed she emoted: “Oppression greets us from all angles. Oppression wails from the soldiers radio and floats through tear gas clouds in the air. Oppression explodes with every sound bomb and sinks deeper into the heart of the mother who has lost her son. But resistance is nestled in the cracks in the wall, resistance flows from the minaret 5 times a day and resistance sits quietly in jail knowing its time will come again. Resistance lives in the grieving mother’s wails and resistance lives in the anger at the lies broadcasted across the globe. Though it is sometimes hard to see and even harder sometimes to harbor, resistance lives. Do not be fooled, resistance lives.” Such words “are not that of a humanitarian aid worker, but of a propagandist for the supporters of worldwide jihad who seek Israel’s destruction,” Ron Radosh writes at PJ Media. Mueller was at best a useful idiot of Hamas, he argues, comparing Mueller to the late Rachel Corrie, another ISM activist. Corrie became a leftist cause celebre after she died as a result of her own foolishness. She decided to lie down in the path of an IDF bulldozer as it was destroying the entrance to a tunnel used for smuggling weapons to be used against Israeli forces. “The ISM placed Corrie in a dangerous situation, and falsely told the world that Israel’s IDF had purposefully killed her in order to scare off foreigners coming to aid the Palestinian people,” Radosh notes. Mueller too was used by the ISM for political purposes, he argues. “The tragedy of Kayla Mueller’s life is that out of an idealistic urge to do good, she went to work on behalf of supporters of terrorism and violence who believe openly in a revolutionary route to salvation. Like so many others, back in the United States she fell prey to the overtures of leftist revolutionaries, who are adept at using the aims of young and innocent students who yearn only to build a better world. In taking that path, she died on behalf of those who believe in violence and world-wide revolution, beginning with the destruction of Israel.” ISM sends its activists onto battlefields and other hotspots to serve as cannon fodder. Its leaders are delighted when an ISM member is killed in action because then the group can use the death for propaganda purposes. Dead foreigners are especially treasured. As ISM leader George S. Rishmawi has said, “When Palestinians get shot by Israeli soldiers, no one is interested anymore. But if some of these foreign volunteers get shot or even killed, then the international media will sit up and take notice.” Mueller is not the first Islamist-sympathizing American to die at the hands of the Islamic State. James W. Foley, who was beheaded by IS in August, fancied himself a journalist but did little more than parrot Islamist propaganda. He mocked the Global War on Terror, urged that Sunni Islamist rebels be armed against the Assad regime, and supported terrorists’ efforts to drive out the Christians of Aleppo. Foley and Mueller were on the same wavelength. They were both fighting in their own ways for Islamic totalitarianism and both met gruesome ends at the hands of the Islamic State. They didn’t deserve to be murdered by the Islamic State group. At the same time, they aren’t worth mourning, either. Perhaps their bad examples will discourage future Americans from throwing their lot in with those who would snuff out western civilization. frontpagemag Posted by Fred Alan Medforth at 12:44 AM t screed she emoted: “Oppression greets us from all angles. Oppression wails from the soldiers radio and floats through tear gas clouds in the air. Oppression explodes with every sound bomb and sinks deeper into the heart of the mother who has lost her son. But resistance is nestled in the cracks in the wall, resistance flows from the minaret 5 times a day and resistance sits quietly in jail knowing its time will come again. Resistance lives in the grieving mother’s wails and resistance lives in the anger at the lies broadcasted across the globe. Though it is sometimes hard to see and even harder sometimes to harbor, resistance lives. Do not be fooled, resistance lives.” Such words “are not that of a humanitarian aid worker, but of a propagandist for the supporters of worldwide jihad who seek Israel’s destruction,” Ron Radosh writes at PJ Media. Mueller was at best a useful idiot of Hamas, he argues, comparing Mueller to the late Rachel Corrie, another ISM activist. Corrie became a leftist cause celebre after she died as a result of her own foolishness. She decided to lie down in the path of an IDF bulldozer as it was destroying the entrance to a tunnel used for smuggling weapons to be used against Israeli forces. “The ISM placed Corrie in a dangerous situation, and falsely told the world that Israel’s IDF had purposefully killed her in order to scare off foreigners coming to aid the Palestinian people,” Radosh notes. Mueller too was used by the ISM for political purposes, he argues. “The tragedy of Kayla Mueller’s life is that out of an idealistic urge to do good, she went to work on behalf of supporters of terrorism and violence who believe openly in a revolutionary route to salvation. Like so many others, back in the United States she fell prey to the overtures of leftist revolutionaries, who are adept at using the aims of young and innocent students who yearn only to build a better world. In taking that path, she died on behalf of those who believe in violence and world-wide revolution, beginning with the destruction of Israel.” ISM sends its activists onto battlefields and other hotspots to serve as cannon fodder. Its leaders are delighted when an ISM member is killed in action because then the group can use the death for propaganda purposes. Dead foreigners are especially treasured. As ISM leader George S. Rishmawi has said, “When Palestinians get shot by Israeli soldiers, no one is interested anymore. But if some of these foreign volunteers get shot or even killed, then the international media will sit up and take notice.” Mueller is not the first Islamist-sympathizing American to die at the hands of the Islamic State. James W. Foley, who was beheaded by IS in August, fancied himself a journalist but did little more than parrot Islamist propaganda. He mocked the Global War on Terror, urged that Sunni Islamist rebels be armed against the Assad regime, and supported terrorists’ efforts to drive out the Christians of Aleppo. Foley and Mueller were on the same wavelength. They were both fighting in their own ways for Islamic totalitarianism and both met gruesome ends at the hands of the Islamic State. They didn’t deserve to be murdered by the Islamic State group. At the same time, they aren’t worth mourning, either. Perhaps their bad examples will discourage future Americans from throwing their lot in with those who would snuff out western civilization. frontpagemag Posted by Fred Alan Medforth at 12:44 AM http://searchlight-germany.blogspot.com/2015/02/the-real-kayla-mueller.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayin jade Posted February 14, 2015 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 44 Topic Count: 6,178 Topics Per Day: 0.87 Content Count: 43,795 Content Per Day: 6.20 Reputation: 11,243 Days Won: 58 Joined: 01/03/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted February 14, 2015 This bears repeating. “The tragedy of Kayla Mueller’s life is that out of an idealistic urge to do good, she went to work on behalf of supporters of terrorism and violence who believe openly in a revolutionary route to salvation. Like so many others, back in the United States she fell prey to the overtures of leftist revolutionaries, who are adept at using the aims of young and innocent students who yearn only to build a better world. In taking that path, she died on behalf of those who believe in violence and world-wide revolution, beginning with the destruction of Israel.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted February 14, 2015 Share Posted February 14, 2015 Kayla Mueller is an example of what will eventually happen to those on the Left who continue to support terror and stand in solidarity with terrorists. Kayla was murdered when she had finally outlived her usefulness to the terrorists in ISIS. They most likely killed her when the Jordanians bombed them in order to drive wedge between the US and Jordan. All of her support of Islamic terrorism didn't make her more valuable to the terrorists. She died as yet one more "useful idiot" in the eyes of the terrorists, one more terrorist supporter who is eventually murdered by the ones she wanted to help. In the end, she was just another expendable infidel a far as the terrorists were concerned. Churchill said, "Those who seek to appease the crocodile, simply get eaten last." The truth of that statement was demonstrated rather poignantly in the death of Kayla Mueller. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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