Mark777 Posted June 16, 2006 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 416 Content Per Day: 0.06 Reputation: 12 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/16/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted June 16, 2006 You say they were Christians - I have said quite a few times they are not. So your comments , besides repeating what you have already said, are noted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ovedya Posted June 16, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 375 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 11,400 Content Per Day: 1.44 Reputation: 125 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/30/2002 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/14/1971 Share Posted June 16, 2006 If this has been discussed earlier, please forgive me. It seems to me that if salvation is lost, regained, lost, regained, etc., then there should logically be degrees of sin also. Every Christian sins every day. And if God makes the distinction between intentional and unintentional sin, then He must distinguish between degrees of sin also. An unintentional sin can be forgiven, so long as the believer realizes that sin and repents of it. Intentional sins can be forgiven by God if the believer comes to his senses and then repents. Logically this places both types of sin in different categories: Unintentional sin being minor and intentional being the greater sin. I have a couple of problems with this concept. Firstly, if there is a major degree of sin and a minor degree of sin, then we should examine all sins and see if they fit into either one of these categories. I'm not really big on Catholic doctrine, but I do know that these two categories exist, and I know that there are names for them - Venial sins and mortal sins. Venial sins are the minor "unintentional" sins and mortal sins are the types of sins that are committed intentionally, with the act of the will and with the full knowledge that they are wrong. I think the difference between what the Catholics hold as venial sins and mortal sins, and what opponents to OSAS believe, is that Catholics don't believe that confession of venial sins is necessary. They consider those confessions to be pious, but not confessing them does not result in eternal perdition. Opponents to OSAS may argue, however, that confession must be made for all sins, otherwise they are jeapardizing their eternal standing before the throne. This argument is not a "guilt by association," mind you. Although I am opposed to the Catholic concept of venial and mortal sins, I am really just trying to open this up as best I can from my understanding. I believe that all sins are equal in the eyes of God and that, although God obviously sees and understands the intent behind what we do, He nevertheless is offended by all sin. It's frightening to think that God selects whom He will send to eternal torment based upon the type of sin that a believer commits, or whether the believer intentionally or unintentionally committed those sins. If God is equally offended by all sins at all times, then every believer is surely doomed if salvation can be lost. But if salvation cannot be lost surely there is hope for a man like me, whose mouth tends to fly a bit off the handle when he's confronted by something really scary - like his airplane suddenly falling to the ground like a stone, for example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark777 Posted June 16, 2006 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 416 Content Per Day: 0.06 Reputation: 12 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/16/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted June 16, 2006 So anyone who disagrees with you has a poor understanding - your funny. Feel free to think so. Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark777 Posted June 16, 2006 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 416 Content Per Day: 0.06 Reputation: 12 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/16/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted June 16, 2006 Ovedya, I think all sin is the same and all sin has been paid for. If we accept Christ the payment is applied to us and we are sealed, given eternal life, and bought by God. He automatically starts to improve His investment by feeding us and pruning us. What sicknesses we have He treats. He is able to keeps us and deliver us. We are not our own. We are His property. He will sanctify us completely. Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark777 Posted June 16, 2006 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 416 Content Per Day: 0.06 Reputation: 12 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/16/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted June 16, 2006 I have answered that same question twice! They were people who were in intimate contact with believers - as people are in church. They profited from the knowledge of the truth and the presence of the Holy Spirit in the true believers there. Now that was simple. And again, you pick on several difficult passages - with vague phrasology but completely ignore clear passages that say no one can lose salvation - "...I will lose nothing." And if you will read just a few posts up, you will see that someone else answered it also. Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark777 Posted June 16, 2006 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 416 Content Per Day: 0.06 Reputation: 12 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/16/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted June 16, 2006 CC, We repent of our sins and if you know people who don't then something is wrong with their walk - maybe they do not have one. My Holy Spirit tinks me on the head every time I sin. He is constantly talking to my soul and correcting me. And you know what? I don't do much fighting. Sometimes it is hard for me but I am a completey willing partner. OSAS is the power of Christ and with it comes a knowledge and awareness of sin and we do repent. Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark777 Posted June 16, 2006 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 416 Content Per Day: 0.06 Reputation: 12 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/16/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted June 16, 2006 Let me ask openly: Is there anyone here that their church believes OSAS and doesn't believe in repenting of their sins? If so, please explain. Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark777 Posted June 16, 2006 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 416 Content Per Day: 0.06 Reputation: 12 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/16/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted June 16, 2006 False teachers aren't real teachers. And people can profit from something by being in close proximity to it. The dog is still a dog and the swine is still a swine. Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark777 Posted June 16, 2006 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 416 Content Per Day: 0.06 Reputation: 12 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/16/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted June 16, 2006 Cardcaptor: "We are ALL going to be judged by it on judgement day." Romans8:1 "there is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark777 Posted June 16, 2006 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 416 Content Per Day: 0.06 Reputation: 12 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/16/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted June 16, 2006 John 3:18 "He who believes in Him is not judged....." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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