enoob57 Posted September 10, 2015 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 35 Topic Count: 100 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 41,193 Content Per Day: 7.98 Reputation: 21,469 Days Won: 76 Joined: 03/13/2010 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/27/1957 Share Posted September 10, 2015 If you do not see from all the Scripture that is included in the above "Got Questions" piece about our earthly bodies being destroyed and us given a new body then you are definitely in denial.I can not help you.I will leave this thread. Bopeep your source does not say we are given new bodies. It says Yet believers have the promise that our imperfect and dishonored bodies will one day be raised in glory. It doesn't say we get new bodies or our old bodies are left behind. The resurrection is the resurrection of our bodies. Not our souls. Our souls are already with the Lord. It is our bodies which have been left behind and are now resurrected in glory. This is why the tomb of Jesus was empty. His body was resurrected in glory. He didn't get a new body.It was his earthly body he had on earth, now resurrected and transformed in glory. We shall be like Him. This means our eartly bodies will be resurrected like His and transformed like His. To say our bodies get left behind is what the gnostics taught. Why are you holding to gnostic beliefs? All that is needed is one verse.1 Cor 15:50 Now I say this, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable.Our current bodies are flesh and blood. Those bodies will not inherit the kingdom of God. They are perishable. Prooftexting does not prove your point. This is unsatisfactory scholarship.... Gnosticism was in error with saying created substance was evil- God made it so it cannot be so. However God's holinessis hinted at in the Jude passage and God's possessions are God's to do with as pleases Him... Romans... God hates sin even the suggestion of it is lie uponlies and God has no part with it... Love, Steven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thereselittleflower Posted September 11, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 58 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 5,457 Content Per Day: 1.69 Reputation: 4,220 Days Won: 37 Joined: 07/01/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted September 11, 2015 (edited) If you do not see from all the Scripture that is included in the above "Got Questions" piece about our earthly bodies being destroyed and us given a new body then you are definitely in denial.I can not help you.I will leave this thread. Bopeep your source does not say we are given new bodies. It says Yet believers have the promise that our imperfect and dishonored bodies will one day be raised in glory. It doesn't say we get new bodies or our old bodies are left behind. The resurrection is the resurrection of our bodies. Not our souls. Our souls are already with the Lord. It is our bodies which have been left behind and are now resurrected in glory. This is why the tomb of Jesus was empty. His body was resurrected in glory. He didn't get a new body.It was his earthly body he had on earth, now resurrected and transformed in glory. We shall be like Him. This means our eartly bodies will be resurrected like His and transformed like His. To say our bodies get left behind is what the gnostics taught. Why are you holding to gnostic beliefs? All that is needed is one verse.1 Cor 15:50 Now I say this, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable.Our current bodies are flesh and blood. Those bodies will not inherit the kingdom of God. They are perishable. Prooftexting does not prove your point. This is unsatisfactory scholarship.... Gnosticism was in error with saying created substance was evil- God made it so it cannot be so. However God's holinessis hinted at in the Jude passage and God's possessions are God's to do with as pleases Him... Romans... God hates sin even the suggestion of it is lie uponlies and God has no part with it... Love, StevenAnd how does that mean our bodies aren't also redeemed, resurrected and changed?Our souls are redeemed even though they were sinful. So if I apply your reasoning above, God would not, could not redeem our souls either and then we are utterly totally lost for all eternity. Edited September 11, 2015 by thereselittleflower Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missmuffet Posted September 11, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 34 Topic Count: 1,991 Topics Per Day: 0.48 Content Count: 48,689 Content Per Day: 11.80 Reputation: 30,343 Days Won: 226 Joined: 01/11/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted September 11, 2015 If you do not see from all the Scripture that is included in the above "Got Questions" piece about our earthly bodies being destroyed and us given a new body then you are definitely in denial.I can not help you.I will leave this thread. Bopeep your source does not say we are given new bodies. It says Yet believers have the promise that our imperfect and dishonored bodies will one day be raised in glory. It doesn't say we get new bodies or our old bodies are left behind. The resurrection is the resurrection of our bodies. Not our souls. Our souls are already with the Lord. It is our bodies which have been left behind and are now resurrected in glory. This is why the tomb of Jesus was empty. His body was resurrected in glory. He didn't get a new body.It was his earthly body he had on earth, now resurrected and transformed in glory. We shall be like Him. This means our eartly bodies will be resurrected like His and transformed like His. To say our bodies get left behind is what the gnostics taught. Why are you holding to gnostic beliefs? All that is needed is one verse.1 Cor 15:50 Now I say this, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable.Our current bodies are flesh and blood. Those bodies will not inherit the kingdom of God. They are perishable. Prooftexting does not prove your point. This is unsatisfactory scholarship.... Gnosticism was in error with saying created substance was evil- God made it so it cannot be so. However God's holinessis hinted at in the Jude passage and God's possessions are God's to do with as pleases Him... Romans... God hates sin even the suggestion of it is lie uponlies and God has no part with it... Love, StevenAnd how does that mean our bodies aren't also redeemed, resurrected and changed?Our souls are redeemed even though they were sinful. So if I apply your reasoning above, God would not, could not redeem our souls either and then we are utterly totally lost for all eternity. The soul of the believer goes immediately to heaven when they die.The soul of the unbeliever goes to hades when they die.The body remains in the grave.The body will turn into a glorified body very different than the body we have now and will be resurrected with our soul that is in heaven.This will happen at the rapture.There are only souls in heaven now that are waiting their glorified body. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thereselittleflower Posted September 11, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 58 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 5,457 Content Per Day: 1.69 Reputation: 4,220 Days Won: 37 Joined: 07/01/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted September 11, 2015 If you do not see from all the Scripture that is included in the above "Got Questions" piece about our earthly bodies being destroyed and us given a new body then you are definitely in denial.I can not help you.I will leave this thread. Bopeep your source does not say we are given new bodies. It says Yet believers have the promise that our imperfect and dishonored bodies will one day be raised in glory. It doesn't say we get new bodies or our old bodies are left behind. The resurrection is the resurrection of our bodies. Not our souls. Our souls are already with the Lord. It is our bodies which have been left behind and are now resurrected in glory. This is why the tomb of Jesus was empty. His body was resurrected in glory. He didn't get a new body.It was his earthly body he had on earth, now resurrected and transformed in glory. We shall be like Him. This means our eartly bodies will be resurrected like His and transformed like His. To say our bodies get left behind is what the gnostics taught. Why are you holding to gnostic beliefs? All that is needed is one verse.1 Cor 15:50 Now I say this, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable.Our current bodies are flesh and blood. Those bodies will not inherit the kingdom of God. They are perishable. Prooftexting does not prove your point. This is unsatisfactory scholarship.... Gnosticism was in error with saying created substance was evil- God made it so it cannot be so. However God's holinessis hinted at in the Jude passage and God's possessions are God's to do with as pleases Him... Romans... God hates sin even the suggestion of it is lie uponlies and God has no part with it... Love, StevenAnd how does that mean our bodies aren't also redeemed, resurrected and changed?Our souls are redeemed even though they were sinful. So if I apply your reasoning above, God would not, could not redeem our souls either and then we are utterly totally lost for all eternity. The soul of the believer goes immediately to heaven when they die.The soul of the unbeliever goes to hades when they die.The body remains in the grave.The body will turn into a glorified body very different than the body we have now and will be resurrected with our soul that is in heaven.This will happen at the rapture.There are only souls in heaven now that are waiting their glorified body.I agree with this (though I believe the souls of unbelievers are in hell now).This is saying what I've been saying, that the bodies we have now are redeemed, resurrected, changed, transformed into a glorified bodies that will be reunited with our souls.They are not discarded and some totally new body given us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missmuffet Posted September 11, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 34 Topic Count: 1,991 Topics Per Day: 0.48 Content Count: 48,689 Content Per Day: 11.80 Reputation: 30,343 Days Won: 226 Joined: 01/11/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted September 11, 2015 If you do not see from all the Scripture that is included in the above "Got Questions" piece about our earthly bodies being destroyed and us given a new body then you are definitely in denial.I can not help you.I will leave this thread. Bopeep your source does not say we are given new bodies. It says Yet believers have the promise that our imperfect and dishonored bodies will one day be raised in glory. It doesn't say we get new bodies or our old bodies are left behind. The resurrection is the resurrection of our bodies. Not our souls. Our souls are already with the Lord. It is our bodies which have been left behind and are now resurrected in glory. This is why the tomb of Jesus was empty. His body was resurrected in glory. He didn't get a new body.It was his earthly body he had on earth, now resurrected and transformed in glory. We shall be like Him. This means our eartly bodies will be resurrected like His and transformed like His. To say our bodies get left behind is what the gnostics taught. Why are you holding to gnostic beliefs? All that is needed is one verse.1 Cor 15:50 Now I say this, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable.Our current bodies are flesh and blood. Those bodies will not inherit the kingdom of God. They are perishable. Prooftexting does not prove your point. This is unsatisfactory scholarship.... Gnosticism was in error with saying created substance was evil- God made it so it cannot be so. However God's holinessis hinted at in the Jude passage and God's possessions are God's to do with as pleases Him... Romans... God hates sin even the suggestion of it is lie uponlies and God has no part with it... Love, StevenAnd how does that mean our bodies aren't also redeemed, resurrected and changed?Our souls are redeemed even though they were sinful. So if I apply your reasoning above, God would not, could not redeem our souls either and then we are utterly totally lost for all eternity. The soul of the believer goes immediately to heaven when they die.The soul of the unbeliever goes to hades when they die.The body remains in the grave.The body will turn into a glorified body very different than the body we have now and will be resurrected with our soul that is in heaven.This will happen at the rapture.There are only souls in heaven now that are waiting their glorified body.I agree with this (though I believe the souls of unbelievers are in hell now).This is saying what I've been saying, that the bodies we have now are redeemed, resurrected, changed, transformed into a glorified bodies that will be reunited with our souls.They are not discarded and some totally new body given us. Hell is empty.There is no one in hell right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thereselittleflower Posted September 11, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 58 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 5,457 Content Per Day: 1.69 Reputation: 4,220 Days Won: 37 Joined: 07/01/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted September 11, 2015 If you do not see from all the Scripture that is included in the above "Got Questions" piece about our earthly bodies being destroyed and us given a new body then you are definitely in denial.I can not help you.I will leave this thread. Bopeep your source does not say we are given new bodies. It says Yet believers have the promise that our imperfect and dishonored bodies will one day be raised in glory. It doesn't say we get new bodies or our old bodies are left behind. The resurrection is the resurrection of our bodies. Not our souls. Our souls are already with the Lord. It is our bodies which have been left behind and are now resurrected in glory. This is why the tomb of Jesus was empty. His body was resurrected in glory. He didn't get a new body. It was his earthly body he had on earth, now resurrected and transformed in glory. We shall be like Him. This means our eartly bodies will be resurrected like His and transformed like His. To say our bodies get left behind is what the gnostics taught. Why are you holding to gnostic beliefs? All that is needed is one verse. 1 Cor 15:50 Now I say this, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. Our current bodies are flesh and blood. Those bodies will not inherit the kingdom of God. They are perishable. Prooftexting does not prove your point. This is unsatisfactory scholarship.... Gnosticism was in error with saying created substance was evil- God made it so it cannot be so. However God's holinessis hinted at in the Jude passage and God's possessions are God's to do with as pleases Him... Romans... God hates sin even the suggestion of it is lie uponlies and God has no part with it... Love, Steven And how does that mean our bodies aren't also redeemed, resurrected and changed? Our souls are redeemed even though they were sinful. So if I apply your reasoning above, God would not, could not redeem our souls either and then we are utterly totally lost for all eternity. The soul of the believer goes immediately to heaven when they die.The soul of the unbeliever goes to hades when they die.The body remains in the grave.The body will turn into a glorified body very different than the body we have now and will be resurrected with our soul that is in heaven.This will happen at the rapture.There are only souls in heaven now that are waiting their glorified body. I agree with this (though I believe the souls of unbelievers are in hell now). This is saying what I've been saying, that the bodies we have now are redeemed, resurrected, changed, transformed into a glorified bodies that will be reunited with our souls. They are not discarded and some totally new body given us. Hell is empty.There is no one in hell right now. I guess we will have to agree to disagree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoob57 Posted September 11, 2015 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 35 Topic Count: 100 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 41,193 Content Per Day: 7.98 Reputation: 21,469 Days Won: 76 Joined: 03/13/2010 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/27/1957 Share Posted September 11, 2015 (edited) And how does that mean our bodies aren't also redeemed, resurrected and changed? Our souls are redeemed even though they were sinful. So if I apply your reasoning above, God would not, could not redeem our souls either and then we are utterly totally lost for all eternity. The area in question is what did God rebirth within us... illustrated for understanding This is our makeup and as you can see the inner man either dead spirit or s/Spirit alive...Eph 3:16-1816 That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthenedwith might by his Spirit in the inner man; 17 That Christ may dwell in your hearts byfaith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love, 18 May be able to comprehend withall saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height;KJVwhen we were born naturally were dead in spirit so all we had to draw from was the sensualperceptions through the flesh from a world that was now under satans influence... being bornagain in s/Spirit gives us the other living avenue of influence God's Word! Now the soulish partof us mind, will, emotion has choice to draw from the bodies influence or God's Word - if Wordthen we are being sanctified within our souls of newness of life in God / if body influence thenwe are remaining carnal and useless to God's purpose within us... YET that which is born ofGod now supernaturally and indwelt by The Holy Spirit is kept by God to fulfill His promise toHimself by giving Himself to that new birth... John 6:2727 Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meatwhich endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shallgive unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.KJV2 Cor 1:21-2221 Now he which stablisheth us with you in Christ, and hath anointed us, is God; 22 Who hath also sealed us, and given theearnest of the Spirit in our hearts.KJVEph 1:13-1413 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth,the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed,ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, 14 Which is theearnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchasedpossession, unto the praise of his glory.KJVEph 4:30-3230 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealedunto the day of redemption. 31 Let all bitterness, and wrath, andanger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, withall malice: 32 And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted,forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.KJV This is why it cannot be of works nor can it 'NOT' be- for it is the covenant of Abraham whereGod swore upon His Own Self because there 'IS' nothing greater to swear upon... that which'IS' born of God cannot be unborn- just as one man's sin we were all sinners / so then One Man'srighteousness maybe our righteousness if we just eat of The Tree of Life... Love, Steven Edited September 11, 2015 by enoob57 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thereselittleflower Posted September 11, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 58 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 5,457 Content Per Day: 1.69 Reputation: 4,220 Days Won: 37 Joined: 07/01/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted September 11, 2015 (edited) And how does that mean our bodies aren't also redeemed, resurrected and changed?Our souls are redeemed even though they were sinful. So if I apply your reasoning above, God would not, could not redeem our souls either and then we are utterly totally lost for all eternity.The area in question is what did God rebirth within us... illustrated for understanding This is our makeup and as you can see the inner man either dead spirit or s/Spirit alive...Eph 3:16-1816 That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthenedwith might by his Spirit in the inner man; 17 That Christ may dwell in your hearts byfaith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love, 18 May be able to comprehend withall saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height;KJVwhen we were born naturally were dead in spirit so all we had to draw from was the sensualperceptions through the flesh from a world that was now under satans influence... being bornagain in s/Spirit gives us the other living avenue of influence God's Word! Now the soulish partof us mind, will, emotion has choice to draw from the bodies influence or God's Word - if Wordthen we are being sanctified within our souls of newness of life in God / if body influence thenwe are remaining carnal and useless to God's purpose within us... YET that which is born ofGod now supernaturally and indwelt by The Holy Spirit is kept by God to fulfill His promise toHimself by giving Himself to that new birth...John 6:2727 Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meatwhich endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shallgive unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.KJV2 Cor 1:21-2221 Now he which stablisheth us with you in Christ, and hath anointed us, is God; 22 Who hath also sealed us, and given theearnest of the Spirit in our hearts.KJVEph 1:13-1413 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth,the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed,ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, 14 Which is theearnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchasedpossession, unto the praise of his glory.KJVEph 4:30-3230 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealedunto the day of redemption. 31 Let all bitterness, and wrath, andanger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, withall malice: 32 And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted,forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.KJVThis is why it cannot be of works nor can it 'NOT' be- for it is the covenant of Abraham whereGod swore upon His Own Self because there 'IS' nothing greater to swear upon... that which'IS' born of God cannot be unborn- just as one man's sin we were all sinners / so then One Man'srighteousness maybe our righteousness if we just eat of The Tree of Life... Love, Steven How does any of that in any way respond to what I asked you or said?The bible speaks of our bodies being redeemed, our bodies being resurrected. How does any of what you said address that?Would you like to address what I actually said? And how does that mean our bodies aren't also redeemed, resurrected and changed?Our souls are redeemed even though they were sinful. So if I apply your reasoning above, God would not, could not redeem our souls either and then we are utterly totally lost for all eternity. Edited September 11, 2015 by thereselittleflower Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoob57 Posted September 11, 2015 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 35 Topic Count: 100 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 41,193 Content Per Day: 7.98 Reputation: 21,469 Days Won: 76 Joined: 03/13/2010 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/27/1957 Share Posted September 11, 2015 Well loved one it is a short distance to where the answer is- the sanctified portion of the soul dwelling in the inner man of new spirit/with Holy Spiritthat >is redeemed< ... the body is pronounced from dust thou art and to dust thou shalt return and God is burning up the earth and all it contains alongwith the heavens... However He brings about the new body it will be where sin has never been nor even conceived and the sanctified portion of oursoul in the inner man with The Holy Spirit shall dwell in that new body... Love, Steven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thereselittleflower Posted September 11, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 58 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 5,457 Content Per Day: 1.69 Reputation: 4,220 Days Won: 37 Joined: 07/01/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted September 11, 2015 Well loved one it is a short distance to where the answer is- the sanctified portion of the soul dwelling in the inner man of new spirit/with Holy Spiritthat >is redeemed< ... the body is pronounced from dust thou art and to dust thou shalt return and God is burning up the earth and all it contains alongwith the heavens... However He brings about the new body it will be where sin has never been nor even conceived and the sanctified portion of oursoul in the inner man with The Holy Spirit shall dwell in that new body... Love, StevenWell my friend, I actually find no scriptural support for such a position.I find the scripture tells us the body, this very same body we have right now, will be resurrect and will be changed, its corruption will put on incorruption., and right now, the same as our soul/spirit is, our body is being sanctified, made holy.This is what scripture actually says about the body.1 Corinthians 1552in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 53For this perishable must put on the imperishable, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54But when this perishable will have put on the imperishable, and this mortal will have put on immortality, then will come about the saying that is written, "DEATH IS SWALLOWED UP in victory Notice the words "put on" in the passage above.ἐνδύω endýō, en-doo'-o; from G1722 and G1416 (in the sense of sinking into a garment); to invest with clothing (literally or figuratively):—array, clothe (with), endue, have (put) on. Our souls are eternal. They are not perishable. Our BODIES are perishable. Our BODIES are sown in corruption and raised in incorruption. Our BODIES are perishable and PUT ON the imperishable. Our BODIES are mortal and PUT ON immortality. Then and ONLY then will it come to pass that Death is swallowed up in victory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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