God the Son Made Flesh and the Character of God by Greg Gordon

[sermonindex]

One Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live. – 1 Corinthians 8:6

God became a man. This short statement seems very simple but in reality it is so profound and early Church Fathers spent hundreds of years considering it. The son of God was made flesh and shed his blood, the very blood of God to redeem us. I remember a young disciple and believer in the Lord was spending time with me, I gave him a 800 page book to read on the character of God. He sat there astonished that someone could write so many pages on what God was like. For some modern believers we could barely write 1-2 pages, our meditation and consideration of God is not like those in the past. I remember when I first came to the Lord, the whole idea of the trinity confused me greatly and I never spent time or had someone speak to me clearly about the character of God. The idea of Jesus Christ being God in the flesh was believed but the real ramifications and understanding of that truth did not grip my mind. Later in my bible readings as a new believer I read that Jesus created the actual world himself (Colossians 1:16). This very truth of the divinity of Jesus was the test if a spirit was true or not for early believers (1 John 4:2). Most false prophets and teachings warp and twist the character of God and the fact that Jesus is God in the flesh.

St. John of Damas­cus said, “I believe in one God, the source of all things, without beginning, uncreated, immor­tal and unassailable, eternal, everlasting, in­comprehensible, bodiless, invisible, uncircumscribed, without form. I believe in one superessential Being, one Godhead greater than our conception of divinity, in three per­sons: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, and I adore Him alone. I worship one God, one Godhead, but I adore three persons: God the Father, God the Son made flesh, and God the Holy Spirit, one God.” What a wonderful statement of truth, especially and clearly testifying that Jesus was God in the very flesh and part of the Godhead. We must as believers consider these things, as many believers in Church history proclaimed some of these truths weekly or even daily in creeds. One good practice is to read and memorize the Nicene Creed as a way to meditate more on these basic fundamental aspects of God and the Gospel. Yes, God is a Father and we have a familial relationship with him, but we must also not lose the reverence for him as “hallowed” and holy (Matthew 6:9). Spend time thinking and meditating on the character of God. Jesus our Lord not only created the entire universe, but is the very person through whom we live the Christian life. Our partaking of his divine nature (2 Peter 1:4) we are able to live godly in this present world and rightly proclaim and know God accurately.

[Kan]

I John 4:3

The whole difference between a form of godliness and or a form Christianity and the genuine, is in the understanding of this one point, the Son of God becoming flesh.

 

The definition of it, is a great point of contention as expected, and I have often seen this topic suddenly locked because of the questions on it, or the emotive talk that follows.

 

The issue is, whether Christ took on our flesh, or whether He came through an immaculate conception.

 

The first move of the Antichrist is to say that Mary had to be of 'holy flesh' in order for Christ to be 'born sinless.'

 

The second is a watered down version - that Christ came as an unfallen sinless man like Adam before he fell, and Mary was ordinary.

 

But the Biblical fact is that He came as an ordinary man, subject to temptation as all men, yet He sinned not, by faith in His Father, as any man must do to have victory over sin.

 

Confusion is added in studying this doctrine, when we look at the definition of sin.

 

The Catholic church teaches that a child is born in sin, and the nominal churches teach that we are born sinners because of inherited tendencies.

But the Bible teaches that all men have sinned, rather than inherited sin - which is not possible.

The Bible also indicates that sin can only be sin when it is known by the person. This does not mean that mistakes can't happen without knowledge, but that the question of sin and guilt does not enter until the conscience is violated.

 

So Christ was born with the inherited weaknesses of humanity as we have, but He never yielded to sin, He was true to God by conscience.

 

Was Christ born with a special faith? Yes, and we all are, because of His sacrifice.

 

"For without faith it is impossible to please God" No one could please God unless they had faith first.

 

Fortunately we are "all given a measure of faith" according to the Bible.

What did this gift cost God? - His only Son - a very expensive gift, it may be as small as a mustard seed, but it is the power of God for our salvation.

This faith given to us, contains all the power of God in Christ, to save us. It was designed to be focused on Christ as our substitute in sacrifice for sins and in victory over sin as well. In other words, Christ is our substitute and victory over sin -"looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith."

 

Some people like Christ as the author of their faith, but try to finish the faith themselves by living a reasonably good life by their own judgement. But Christ gives the righteousness of God to all that have faith in Him, a righteousness which is not ordinary at all, and not possible to fake.

 

The whole issue on the human level comes down to overcoming sin.

 

A false gospel is invariably based on the two false premises of the immaculate conception and the idea of inheriting sin guilt. which results in half baked Christians who sin in moderation (unlike the brazen worldlings as they believe). It's living hypocrisy, self delusion and confusion.

 

The genuine gospel saves people from their sins and not in them. And this can only happen by faith in Christ, who works in us effectually as the Bible states.

 

"Behold the Lamb of God which takes away the sin of the world." We can claim the victory of God in us as ours in Christ, as we accept Him, but we also accept His power to change us and keep us from sinning.

 

But we cannot fully receive that victory unless we die to self, as pointed out in another thread, full surrender to Jesus, brings peace and salvation. And we can ask Him to give us that genuine surrender, because it is the "goodness of God which leads us to repentance."

[By Faith]

 

 One good practice is to read and memorize the Nicene Creed as a way to meditate more on these basic fundamental aspects of God and the Gospel. 

 

 

Welcome to the forums. 

 

Very strange that someone would recommend meditating on a old Roman Catholic creed made by men to understand God more. I would recommend scriptures. The Nicene Creed of 325ad also did not make Jesus His Father, but made Jesus of the same substance as the Father and the Holy Spirit was not included until 381ad. 

 

It was in the 1600's the Modern Catholic Doctrine came out which started the battles over Monotheism. The Modern is what is most believed today by many. You spoke of the Modern, but told us to meditate on the original. 

 

Using paragraphs, and taking a bit more care to study might help you out. Then again some don't know the difference between modalism, trinity, or oneness. So, it might not even really matter, depending on who reads.

 

I did like some of your post concerning judging others on your blog. 

[Bible2]

Kan said in post 2:

 

The Catholic church teaches that a child is born in sin . . .

 

Romans 5:19a is the doctrine of original sin, which could be based on everyone having been in some way in "the loins" of Adam when he sinned, so that everyone in some way committed sin when Adam sinned, just as Levi had been in some way in "the loins" of Abraham when Abraham gave a tithe to Melchisedec, so that Levi in some way gave a tithe to Melchisedec when Abraham did (Hebrews 7:9-10).

 

Because of original sin, we are guilty as individuals as soon as we are conceived in the womb (Psalms 51:5). So even as babies we are sinful (Psalms 58:3, Romans 3:10). But original sin isn't our only guiltiness before God, for we have all as individuals committed our own sins by our own free will (Romans 3:23,9-12). No one can master sin (Genesis 4:7b), or put to death the lusts of the flesh (Galatians 5:24), without the miraculous help of God's Holy Spirit (Romans 8:13b), who is given to saved people (1 Corinthians 2:12-16).

 

If original sin is genetic, could it be passed on only through the male "seed", so that Jesus could be conceived without original sin by being conceived without any human father (Luke 1:34-35)?

[Kan]

 

Kan said in post 2:

 

The Catholic church teaches that a child is born in sin . . .

 

Romans 5:19a is the doctrine of original sin, which could be based on everyone having been in some way in "the loins" of Adam when he sinned, so that everyone in some way committed sin when Adam sinned, just as Levi had been in some way in "the loins" of Abraham when Abraham gave a tithe to Melchisedec, so that Levi in some way gave a tithe to Melchisedec when Abraham did (Hebrews 7:9-10).

 

Because of original sin, we are guilty as individuals as soon as we are conceived in the womb (Psalms 51:5). So even as babies we are sinful (Psalms 58:3, Romans 3:10). But original sin isn't our only guiltiness before God, for we have all as individuals committed our own sins by our own free will (Romans 3:23,9-12). No one can master sin (Genesis 4:7b), or put to death the lusts of the flesh (Galatians 5:24), without the miraculous help of God's Holy Spirit (Romans 8:13b), who is given to saved people (1 Corinthians 2:12-16).

 

If original sin is genetic, could it be passed on only through the male "seed", so that Jesus could be conceived without original sin by being conceived without any human father (Luke 1:34-35)?

 

 

 

Yes, what you have just said is a perfect example of option number two.

 

If it is possible that humans, as descendants of Adam, are born with 'original sin,' then it makes sense that Jesus could not have come in our flesh, otherwise He would be born guilty,

and also, since there is no other flesh than our kind of flesh to save, it means that Jesus did not come in "the flesh" at all, but by some miracle avoided being with us, as the name Emanuel demands - "God with us"

as opposed to "God pretending to be us."

The teaching of the Antichrist is that Christ did not take on our flesh, but that He was on a platform above us, which is either through an immaculate conception, Mary had holy flesh - the Catholic teaching, or that Jesus was born with holy flesh unlike us - the teaching of her loyal daughters.

 

These doctrines are necessary of one believes that the flesh is unholy by default.

But notice that the wicked on the day of judgement are "judged according to the deeds done in the body" and not according to the body having an 'original sin.'

 

The Bible does not teach "original sin" or "guilt by birth," or "sin by inheritance," or "guilt for having a body," but this doctrine can be read into it, as easily as the word "good" can be insisted by the reader to mean "evil."

 

Flesh is not evil, and children are not born evil, but evil is a commission, an act by thought. 

Evil is upon the world because of sin, but that does not condemn the human born into it. Death and disease are evil results but not sin.

Sin is about choice, about decision, and not about having a body by your mother. 

 

We inherit poor tendencies, but we build our own habits. We make the choices with our life, and we are not guilty until we have sinned. We may be born with sinful tendencies from our parents, but that does not mean we have sinned, until the day we follow and act upon those tendencies. Temptation is not sin, otherwise Jesus would be called a sinner, because He was tempted in all points, yet He did not yield to sin, ever.

 

You quoted Romans 5:19. as one text which seems to suggest "original sin."

 

If that text is saying that all men are without choice - and automatically sinners by Adam, then you would have to conclude, as the text puts forward by comparison, that all men are without choice - and automatically saved by Christ. But that is not true as you know.

However if you put choice into it, we have all people eventually falling to sin by their choice, but we have people saved by choice as well.

[Guest shiloh357]

Kan do you believe that Jesus was born 100% man and 100% God?   

[Kan]

Kan do you believe that Jesus was born 100% man and 100% God?   

 

Jesus was born human and not God, because He was already God before and He never ceased to be the Son of God when He became flesh, and when He was born, and when He is arose from the dead.

 

That helpless babe in the manger over 2000 years ago, was the son of Mary by bloodline, and the son of David by Kingship,

and the Son of God by Person, Who actually became that little child.

 

He had to remain subject to the plan of salvation if it would work, which required that He must endure as a man must endure, and not as God who cannot be tempted.

His life, upon recognition of finding Himself as a man, and enduring suffering, made Him all the more resolved to - not abandon this world of cruelty, but to go the grave for the guilty, that they may be saved.

 

Although He willingly laid aside His Divine glory and power, at any time, as the Person of God, He may have chosen to leave the horrible earthly experience, to take up His former glory, but He resisted that temptation for our sake, on top of resisting the temptations of natural humanity which had been weakened by sin for thousands of years since the fall of Adam.

 

His inheritance was one that all of us share, so that He being tempted in all points as we, may become a suitable, effective and rightful representative for all sinners to God. He works as our intercessor, able to exchange any human need with complete Divine aid.

[Bible2]

Kan said in post 5:

 

Flesh is not evil, and children are not born evil, but evil is a commission, an act by thought.

 

It is true that flesh is not evil in itself. And believers need to be careful not to be deceived by the Gnostic/antichrist lie that Christ isn't in the flesh (2 John 1:7), and that believers won't forever be in the flesh. For the Bible shows that on the 3rd day after his death (Luke 24:46; 1 Corinthians 15:3-4), Jesus Christ wasn't resurrected as a disembodied spirit, but in his human, flesh and bones body (Luke 24:39, Hebrews 2:17). That is why his tomb is empty (Matthew 28:6), and why he still has the wounds of the crucifixion on his resurrection body (John 20:25-29). And Luke 24:39 didn't stop being true once Jesus ascended into heaven. For he will remain forever the human mediator/high priest of believers (1 Timothy 2:5, Hebrews 7:24-26), in human flesh, just like they are in human flesh (Hebrews 2:17). And when he returns, he will still have the wounds of the crucifixion on his resurrection body (Zechariah 13:6, Zechariah 12:10-14).

 

Gnosticism mistakenly thinks flesh is evil in itself, and that only pure spirit can be good. But Jesus proves that flesh isn't evil in itself, for he has been made flesh (John 1:1,14, Romans 1:3, Luke 24:39), and remains wholly without sin (Hebrews 4:15). Genesis also proves that flesh isn't evil in itself, but was created by God as something very good (Genesis 1:31). Adam and Eve were flesh, for they were the progenitors of the human race alive today. And they were immortal before they fell into sin, for it was only their falling into sin which made them become mortal (Genesis 2:17). So Adam and Eve started out as immortal flesh. And so the future resurrection (if dead) or changing (if alive) of saved people into immortal flesh bodies like Jesus has (1 Corinthians 15:21-23,51-53, Philippians 3:21, Luke 24:39, Romans 8:23-25) will be God allowing them to partake of the original, immortal-flesh condition of Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden before their fall into sin.

 

Also, beware the more-general Gnostic lie that even the entire physical universe is evil in itself, and that only a purely-spiritual heaven can be good. For this lie is employed by Gnosticism to wrongly revile the Creator God YHWH as an evil, tyrant, lesser god, whom Gnosticism says created the physical universe to be the foul prison house of human spirits, whom Gnosticism says by some mistake fell from bliss in a purely-spiritual heaven down into the physical universe, to become trapped in suffering, fleshly bodies. No doubt the coming Antichrist will employ this lie as part of his utter reviling of YHWH (Revelation 13:6, Daniel 11:36). But Genesis shows that our physical world was created by YHWH as something very good (Genesis 1:31).

 

And the Bible shows that the whole plan of Creation wasn't that humans, who are both flesh and spirit (1 Thessalonians 5:23, Luke 24:39), would become purely-spiritual ghosts and float forever on clouds in a purely-spiritual heaven with God, but that God would become both flesh and spirit like man (John 1:1,14), and that God would ultimately come down from heaven to live with man on a future, new earth (Revelation 21:1-4), just as God had walked on the earth in the Garden of Eden with Adam and Eve (Genesis 3:8). Also, on the new earth, saved humanity will be allowed to eat from the tree of life (Revelation 2:7, Revelation 22:2,14), just as Adam and Eve hadn't been forbidden to eat from it in their unfallen state (Genesis 2:9,16,17). So, with regard to saved people, God will completely undo the effect of the fall of Adam and Eve. Saved people will be able to live in an earthly, physical paradise forever with God (Revelation 2:7), just as Adam and Eve and their descendants might have done had not Adam and Eve fallen into sin.

 

So beware the Gnostic lie. Beware the Antichrist.

 

--

 

Kan said in post 7:

 

That helpless babe in the manger over 2000 years ago, was the son of Mary by bloodline, and the son of David by Kingship . . .

 

Mary conceived Jesus solely by the Holy Spirit, before she had any sexual relations with Joseph (Matthew 1:18), or with any other man, for that matter (Luke 1:34-35). It is for this reason that Jesus is the only begotten (only born) Son of God (John 3:16, Luke 1:34-35), meaning that he is the only person ever born without any human father. But he is still also the Son of David (Matthew 21:9) in the sense of his being that physical descendent of David (Romans 1:3) who is the foretold Messiah/Christ (John 7:42). So Mary must have been descended from David, or else Jesus would have no physical descent from David. Because the genealogies in Matthew and Luke are different, one passing through David's son Solomon (Matthew 1:6) and the other through David's son Nathan (Luke 3:31), the latter genealogy can be Mary's. In this case, Joseph, the husband of Mary, can be the son of Heli (Luke 3:23) in the sense of his being his son-in-law.

[Guest shiloh357]

Kan,    I asked a simple question.   Do you believe that Jesus was 100% and 100% man.   

 

I don' need an online novel.  

 

I don't need you to skirt around the question.  

 

Was Jesus both God and man?   I am not asking you if Jesus was the Son of God.   I am asking if you believe that Jesus was 100% God while in the flesh.

[Kan]

Thanks Bible 2, I like what you have shown me about Gnosticism and the genealogies of Christ, which you have gone into depth about.