WN: Vatican signs first treaty with 'State of Palestine'

[thereselittleflower]

I also believe we should be concerned with our own judgment before God, and not someone else's.

 

We should all take these words of Jesus to heart:

 

 

Matthew 7:3-5King James Version (KJV)

 

3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?

5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

Edited July 8, 2015 by thereselittleflower

[Guest shiloh357]

We already know that the Roman Catholic Church is a prime enemy of the Jewish people and has been sitting in judgment on the Jews for centuries.   The Popes are all in hell and will one day stand before the King of the Jews and find out that they were never true believers and their hatred of the Jews proves it. 

[Alejandro84]

 

WND posted a news article stating that the Sanhedron wrote pope Francis to inform him that they were putting him on trial for this act.

 

As if they have any authority over the Pontif.   

 

Like the Sanhedron put Jesus on trial . . . . . . <facepalm>

 

Two different contexts though because one teaches a gospel that liberates and the other teaches one of 7 sacraments.

[thereselittleflower]

Truth will always triumph.

 

Rabbi Says Pope Saved More Jews From Holocaust than Schindler

A Jewish rabbi has told the annual meeting of an international Catholic organization that "[Pope] Pius XII saved more Jewish lives than any other person, including Raoul Wallenberg and Oskar Schindler," contrary to press accounts over the last several years that claimed Pius XII did little or nothing to prevent the holocaust. 

 

Rabbi Dr. David Dalin, a Jewish historian and former professor at the Jewish Theological Seminary of America, made the comments August 23rd while speaking to the international lay Catholic organization Communion and Liberation, 

"The Jewish people had no greater friend in the 20th Century [than Pope Pius XII]," he said.

 

... "Today there is a new generation of journalists and experts determined to discredit the documented efforts of Pope Pius XII to save the Jews during the Holocaust," Dalin told the conference, according to the Catholic news service Zenit. "This generation is inspired by Rolf Hochhuth's play 'The Vicar,' which has no historical value, but levels controversial accusations against this pope."

He considers the history presented by Cornwell and the ADL revisionist because noted Jewish politicians and intellectuals such as Albert Einstein, Chief Rabbi Herzog of Israel, and Israeli Prime Ministers Golda Meir and Moshe Sharett lauded Pope Pius XII for his efforts to save Jews.

 

Dalin also cited a study that was conducted by former Israeli consul general Pinchas Lapide during the 1960s, as proof that the claims of both the ADL and Cornwell are false.

"In his work, Lapide documents how Pius XII worked for the salvation of at least 700,000 [Jews] from the hands of the Nazis. However, according to another estimate, this figure rises to 860,000," Dalin told the conference. 

"While 80 percent of European Jews died during those years, 80 percent of Italian Jews were saved. In Rome alone, 155 convents and monasteries gave refuge to some 5,000 Jews. At any given moment, at least 3,000 were saved in the papal residence of Castel Gandolfo."

 

 

Dalin said the pope's public silence about the holocaust was due to practical considerations instead of a deliberate complicity with the Nazis. 

 

...."An explicit and severe denunciation of the Nazis by the pope would have been an invitation to reprisals and would have worsened attitudes toward Jews throughout Europe," Dalin claimed. "We have evidence that the bishop of Munster, [Germany] wished to pronounce himself against the persecution of the Jews in Germany, [and] the leaders of the Jewish communities of his diocese begged him not to do so, as it would have caused a harsher repression against them."

 

 

 

..."These people all have a bone to pick with the Church, and people should take them with a grain of salt at best," Scully said. "People who are dedicated to the truth owe a debt of gratitude to Rabbi Dalin for having the courage to speak to historical fact, instead of getting caught up in revisionist history." 

 

... "I respect Rabbi Dalin as a scholar of great integrity, and I am confident he has researched conclusions on Pope Pius XII, [and that they are] completely accurate," [Rabbi] Lapin said. "Prior to history having been revised by contemporary liberalism, back at the time of Pope Pius XII ['s funeral], world Jewry was united in acknowledging him as a hero, and a worthy recipient of international Jewish gratitude."

 

http://cnsnews.com/news/article/rabbi-says-pope-saved-more-jews-holocaust-schindler

[thereselittleflower]

 

 

WND posted a news article stating that the Sanhedron wrote pope Francis to inform him that they were putting him on trial for this act.

 

As if they have any authority over the Pontif.   

 

Like the Sanhedron put Jesus on trial . . . . . . <facepalm>

 

Two different contexts though because one teaches a gospel that liberates and the other teaches one of 7 sacraments.

 

 

 

Regardless of how one feels about the Catholic Church, I am sure the irony is not lost on the Holy Father and he feels he is in very good company.  

[Guest shiloh357]

Yeah, the word of ONE Rabbi is supposed to negate decades of established history???   Seriously???   This one Rabbi is supposed to overrule decades of Jewish historians as well as secular historians who are not religious and have no axe to grind against the RCC, but are honest about history???

 

You really put  a lot  of stock in history revisionism.  The RCC did not even excommunicate Hitler until it was clear that the allies were winning the war.    Pius XII was outspoken critic of creating a homeland for the Jewish people, anywhere on earth.   Pope Pius XII was anything but a friend to the Jewish people.   He really didn't care and didn't take reports of the suffering of Jews during the Holocausts seriously until the end of the war.

 

It is the new generation of journalists that are trying revise history.

 

There are far  more  historians who know the truth about  the  Holocaust and about Pope Pius the XII.  You may find some who try to perpetuate a new story, but the history has already been written about him and his hatred of Jews.   And to be honest, you can drudge up all kinds of history revisionists, but it doesn't matter because all you can appeal to are second rate historians and junk history.

 

Pius XII  was, at best, inconsistent and could have done more to help the Jews.  He was hardly a saint where the Holocaust was concerned and refused to help the Jews on many occasions when he received pleas for help.  He considered much of the claims about atrocities to be not much anything except rumors.   How wrong he was.   Pius XII had the power to do way more than he did. 

 

Truth will always triumph over anti-Zionism and the lies and murderous heart of the Roman Catholic Cult and its leaders.  Roman Catholic history is littered with its persecution and sanctioned murders of the Jewish people.  

[thereselittleflower]

History has a very interesting way of speaking out through voices one may not expect:

 

From the Jewish Virtual Library:

 

What is the case against Pius XII? In brief, that as head of one of the most powerful moral forces on earth he committed an unspeakable sin of omission by not issuing a formal statement condemning the Nazis' genocidal slaughter of the Jews, and that his silence was motivated by reasons considered in modern times as base: political exigency, economic interests, and personal ambition.

What is the case for him? That in relation to the insane behavior of the Nazis, from overlords to self-styled cogs like Eichmann, he did everything humanly possible to save lives and alleviate suffering among the Jews; that a formal statement would have provoked the Nazis to brutal retaliation, and would substantially have thwarted further Catholic action on behalf of Jews. To the Sacred College of Cardinals Pius XII wrote on June 2, 1943: "Every word that We addressed to the responsible authorities and every one of Our public declarations had to be seriously weighed and considered in the interest of the persecuted themselves in order not to make their situation unwittingly even more difficult and unbearable."1

The defense and the prosecution, to extend the metaphor, have both stated their positions strongly and publicly, taking the material for their arguments from as much of the record of Pius XII's activities as is now known, from knowledge of the Pope's character, and from personal recollections.

There is considerable documentation in support of Pope Pius' fear that a formal statement would worsen, not improve, conditions for the persecuted. Ernst von Weizsacker, the German ambassador to the Vatican during World War II, wrote in his memoirs:

 

 

Pius XII's silence, let us remember, extended to persecutions of Catholics as well. Despite his intervention, 3000 Catholic priests were murdered by the Nazis in Germany, Austria, Poland, France, and other countries; Catholic schools were shut down, Catholic publications were forced out of print or strictly censored, and Catholic churches closed. The possibility of a public statement from the Vatican moved German Foreign Secretary Joachim von Ribbentrop to wire von Weizsacker on January 24, 1943:

 

Not even institutions of worldwide importance, such as the International Red Cross or the Roman Catholic Church saw fit to appeal to Hitler in a general way on behalf of the Jews or to call openly on the sympathies of the world. It was precisely because they wanted to help the Jews that these organizations refrained from making any general and public appeals; for they were afraid that they would injure rather than help the Jews thereby.2

 

Pius learned precisely how firm this German threat was from the protest of the Dutch bishops against seizures of the Jews, for immediately following that protest and, as later confirmed by an SS officer, in direct answer to it, the Nazis stepped up their anti-Jewish activities in the Netherlands; a week after the pastoral letter was read at all the masses in Holland, the SS rounded up every priest and monk and nun who had any Jewish blood whatever, and deported them to concentration camps.4 Pius and his bishops and nuncios in Nazi-occupied or -dominated countries knew that, like a sane man faced with a gun-carrier threatening to shoot, Hitler and his cohorts could not be considered civilized human beings. As Archbishop Andrea Cassulo, papal nuncio inRomania, said in June, 1942, I must proceed cautiously because [my actions] could ruin, instead of being useful to, so many wretched persons whom I must often listen to and help.5

 

Should the Vatican either politically or propagandistically oppose Germany, it should be made unmistakably clear that worsening of relations between Germany and the Vatican would not at all have an adverse effect on Germany alone. On the contrary, the German government would have sufficient effective propaganda material as well as retaliatory measures at its disposal to counteract each attempted move by the Vatican.3

 

The Pope's decision to refrain from a formal condemnation of the Nazi's treatment of Jews was approved by many Jews. One Berlin couple, Mr. and Mrs. Wolfsson, came to Rome after having been in prison and concentration camps. They took shelter in a convent of German nuns while Pius himself, whom they had seen during an audience, arranged for them to escape to Spain. Recalling those terrible days, the Wolfssons recently declared:

In a letter in the London Times of May 15, 1963, Sir Alec Randall, a former British representative at the Vatican, comments:

 

None of us wanted the Pope to take an open stand. We were all fugitives, and fugitives do not wish to be pointed at. The Gestapo would have become more excited and would have intensified its inquisitions. If the Pope had protested, Rome would have become the center of attention. It was better that the Pope said nothing. We all shared this opinion at the time, and this is still our conviction today.6

 

Others besides Pius XII had to face a similar agonizing dilemma. The Polish cardinal, Prince Sapieha, begged Pius XII not to make public protests, as they only increased the persecution of his people. The International Red Cross refrained from protest because they feared that their work in German-controlled countries would be stopped. The British and American Governments were accused of callous indifference to the fate of the Jews because they failed to take them out of Nazi clutches before it was too late. To have done what was asked of them would have prolonged the war.

 

 

 

MUCH more at this link:

 

https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/anti-semitism/piusdef2.html

Edited July 8, 2015 by thereselittleflower

[Qnts2]

 

History has a very interesting way of speaking out through voices one may not expect:

 

From the Jewish Virtual Library:

 

What is the case against Pius XII? In brief, that as head of one of the most powerful moral forces on earth he committed an unspeakable sin of omission by not issuing a formal statement condemning the Nazis' genocidal slaughter of the Jews, and that his silence was motivated by reasons considered in modern times as base: political exigency, economic interests, and personal ambition.

What is the case for him? That in relation to the insane behavior of the Nazis, from overlords to self-styled cogs like Eichmann, he did everything humanly possible to save lives and alleviate suffering among the Jews; that a formal statement would have provoked the Nazis to brutal retaliation, and would substantially have thwarted further Catholic action on behalf of Jews. To the Sacred College of Cardinals Pius XII wrote on June 2, 1943: "Every word that We addressed to the responsible authorities and every one of Our public declarations had to be seriously weighed and considered in the interest of the persecuted themselves in order not to make their situation unwittingly even more difficult and unbearable."1

The defense and the prosecution, to extend the metaphor, have both stated their positions strongly and publicly, taking the material for their arguments from as much of the record of Pius XII's activities as is now known, from knowledge of the Pope's character, and from personal recollections.

There is considerable documentation in support of Pope Pius' fear that a formal statement would worsen, not improve, conditions for the persecuted. Ernst von Weizsacker, the German ambassador to the Vatican during World War II, wrote in his memoirs:

 

 

Pius XII's silence, let us remember, extended to persecutions of Catholics as well. Despite his intervention, 3000 Catholic priests were murdered by the Nazis in Germany, Austria, Poland, France, and other countries; Catholic schools were shut down, Catholic publications were forced out of print or strictly censored, and Catholic churches closed. The possibility of a public statement from the Vatican moved German Foreign Secretary Joachim von Ribbentrop to wire von Weizsacker on January 24, 1943:

 

Not even institutions of worldwide importance, such as the International Red Cross or the Roman Catholic Church saw fit to appeal to Hitler in a general way on behalf of the Jews or to call openly on the sympathies of the world. It was precisely because they wanted to help the Jews that these organizations refrained from making any general and public appeals; for they were afraid that they would injure rather than help the Jews thereby.2

 

Pius learned precisely how firm this German threat was from the protest of the Dutch bishops against seizures of the Jews, for immediately following that protest and, as later confirmed by an SS officer, in direct answer to it, the Nazis stepped up their anti-Jewish activities in the Netherlands; a week after the pastoral letter was read at all the masses in Holland, the SS rounded up every priest and monk and nun who had any Jewish blood whatever, and deported them to concentration camps.4 Pius and his bishops and nuncios in Nazi-occupied or -dominated countries knew that, like a sane man faced with a gun-carrier threatening to shoot, Hitler and his cohorts could not be considered civilized human beings. As Archbishop Andrea Cassulo, papal nuncio inRomania, said in June, 1942, I must proceed cautiously because [my actions] could ruin, instead of being useful to, so many wretched persons whom I must often listen to and help.5

 

Should the Vatican either politically or propagandistically oppose Germany, it should be made unmistakably clear that worsening of relations between Germany and the Vatican would not at all have an adverse effect on Germany alone. On the contrary, the German government would have sufficient effective propaganda material as well as retaliatory measures at its disposal to counteract each attempted move by the Vatican.3

 

The Pope's decision to refrain from a formal condemnation of the Nazi's treatment of Jews was approved by many Jews. One Berlin couple, Mr. and Mrs. Wolfsson, came to Rome after having been in prison and concentration camps. They took shelter in a convent of German nuns while Pius himself, whom they had seen during an audience, arranged for them to escape to Spain. Recalling those terrible days, the Wolfssons recently declared:

In a letter in the London Times of May 15, 1963, Sir Alec Randall, a former British representative at the Vatican, comments:

 

None of us wanted the Pope to take an open stand. We were all fugitives, and fugitives do not wish to be pointed at. The Gestapo would have become more excited and would have intensified its inquisitions. If the Pope had protested, Rome would have become the center of attention. It was better that the Pope said nothing. We all shared this opinion at the time, and this is still our conviction today.6

 

Others besides Pius XII had to face a similar agonizing dilemma. The Polish cardinal, Prince Sapieha, begged Pius XII not to make public protests, as they only increased the persecution of his people. The International Red Cross refrained from protest because they feared that their work in German-controlled countries would be stopped. The British and American Governments were accused of callous indifference to the fate of the Jews because they failed to take them out of Nazi clutches before it was too late. To have done what was asked of them would have prolonged the war.

 

 

 

MUCH more at this link:

 

https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/anti-semitism/piusdef2.html

 

 

There are many many articles written by Jews and others who say the Popes silence caused the death of many many Jews. Silence was considered ascent to the Jewish persecution. Local Priests who saw the killings had written the Pope, pleading with him to take a stand against the persecution of the Jewish people.

 

But, this is also from the Jewish virtual library:

 

Throughout the Holocaust, Pius XII was consistently besieged with pleas for help on behalf of the Jews.

In the spring of 1940, the Chief Rabbi of Palestine, Isaac Herzog, asked the papal Secretary of State, Cardinal Luigi Maglione to intercede to keep Jews in Spain from being deported to Germany. He later made a similar request for Jews in Lithuania. The papacy did nothing.⁽⁵⁾

Within the Pope's own church, Cardinal Theodor Innitzer of Vienna told Pius XII about Jewish deportations in 1941. In 1942, the Slovakian charge d'affaires, a position under the supervision of the Pope, reported to Rome that Slovakian Jews were being systematically deported and sent to death camps.⁽⁶⁾

In October 1941, the Assistant Chief of the U.S. delegation to the Vatican, Harold Tittman, asked the Pope to condemn the atrocities. The response came that the Holy See wanted to remain "neutral," and that condemning the atrocities would have a negative influence on Catholics in German-held lands.⁽⁷⁾

In late August 1942, after more than 200,000 Ukrainian Jews had been killed, Ukrainian Metropolitan Andrej Septyckyj wrote a long letter to the Pope, referring to the German government as a regime of terror and corruption, more diabolical than that of the Bolsheviks. The Pope replied by quoting verses from Psalms and advising Septyckyj to "bear adversity with serene patience."⁽⁸⁾

On September 18, 1942, Monsignor Giovanni Battista Montini, the future Pope Paul VI, wrote, "The massacres of the Jews reach frightening proportions and forms."⁽⁹⁾ Yet, that same month when Myron Taylor, U.S. representative to the Vatican, warned the Pope that his silence was endangering his moral prestige, the Secretary of State responded on the Pope's behalf that it was impossible to verify rumors about crimes committed against the Jews.⁽¹⁰⁾

Wladislaw Raczkiewicz, president of the Polish government-in-exile, appealed to the Pope in January 1943 to publicly denounce Nazi violence. Bishop Preysing of Berlin did the same, at least twice. Pius XII refused.⁽¹¹⁾

 

The truth is, the Pope did help a very small number of Jews, who had converted to Catholicism. The Pope did not help Jews, he helped Catholics. And to the Jews who were perishing, he told them to simply bear it.

[thereselittleflower]

Qnts, I don't find history supporting your conclusions.   

 

Just because some didn't understand why the Pope did not publically denounce Hitler, that doesn't make them right and the Pope and the Jews who begged him to say nothing wrong.  It also does not make your estimations of numbers or who was helped correct either. Did you read the full article I linked to above?

 

 

Regarding the claim the Jews saved were converts - from the Jewish Post:

 

As Pope Pius XII, his directives instructed Catholics worldwide to do everything possible to save the Jews from the onslaught of Nazism. Upon Pacelli's death in 1958, his successor was the Vatican's Ambassador to Bulgaria, Archbishop Angelo Roncalli (Pope John XXIII). Carrying his predecessor's policies forward, Pope John XXIII is today widely regarded as a hero to the Jewish people. Most notably he is praised for his issuance of false baptismal papers and other actions to save Jews during the Shoah.

 

 

 

Pope Paul VI also ordered a team of Jesuit historians to comb through the official diplomatic documents of the WWII wartime Secret Archives, currently closed under canonical seal, to publish the Acts and Documents of the Holy See during the Second World War. These 11 volumes in 12 books identify over 9000 diplomatic documents which, he hoped, would prove that the allegations of his predecessor Pope Pius XII were wrong. The intent was to end the new false allegations, which endangered Jewish - Catholic relations. Pave the Way Foundation asked for and was given permission to digitize this collection along with the Acts of the Holy See 1909-1965. The contents are available to historians on our website www.ptwf.org and on the Vatican website: http://www.vatican.va/archive/atti-ufficiali-santa-sede/index_en.htmworldwide to study this important resource.

 

http://www.jewishpost.com/news/a-recent-history-of-papal-acts.html

Edited July 8, 2015 by thereselittleflower

[Qnts2]

Qnts, I don't find history supporting your conclusions.   

 

Just because some didn't understand why the Pope did not publically denounce Hitler, that doesn't make them right and the Pope and the Jews who begged him to say nothing wrong.  I also does not make your estimations of numbers or who was helped correct either. Did you read the full article I linked to above?

 

I quoted the same site that you claimed supported the Pope.

 

The point is, the Pope remained silent and many thought his silence resulted in many many more deaths of Jewish people. What the Pope either ignored or agreed to which resulted in the persecution of Jewish people is too numerous to list. The Pope agreed with laws passed in France against the Jewish people.