High minimum wage doesnt work after all

[thereselittleflower]

 

Littleflower, if a person agrees to work for someone else, at the wages being offered, that person has no legitimate grounds to accuse the employer of being unfair.   If the employer pays what he and the employee agreed to, then the wage is fair.

 

"Fair wage"  should not be tied to a particular dollar amount.

 

All the Bible requires is that employers pay what they agreed to pay and not change the rules once the work has been done.   That is honest and fair.

 

If someone doesn't like what they're getting paid, they can get up off their butt and find another job that pays more, otherwise stop complaining and just do their job.

 

And btw, "fair wage"   cuts both ways.      It is not fair to the employer to be forced to pay wages that his profit margin cannot absorb.   Many of these fair wage people only look at this from the vantage point of the burger flippers who are whining that they aren't getting paid enough.    A fair wage has to be understood in terms of the limited pool of $$$ that an employer has for payroll.

 

Raises and higher wages should be based on two things:  Merit and affordability.    Lazy employees who do the bare minimum required should never get raises.  Good employees who go the extra mile, who have a good attitude, who make the customers happy and which in turn, makes the company profitable should be rewarded, but those rewards are limited to what a company can afford to pay.  So what's "fair"  should be governed by those two principles.

 

Make your company more money and you will likely get raises because the company wants to keep good employees and they will find a way to weed out the losers.  And that is completely fair.

 

Fair wages, as defined by liberals isn't the same concept as we see in Scripture.   "A worker is worthy of his hire,"  Jesus said.  That is the merit system.   You do less you are worth less and get paid less (or fired).  You do more, you are worth more and get paid more. 

 

That's the Bible way, not the liberal, loony leftist way.

 

 

That has nothing to do with what we are talking about, Burning Ember.   Our people are making far better wages and do not live in sweat shop conditions that they have in China.    So your example is invalid.  

Re-read the bolded parts of your post. It's very relevant. If that's your position you have to be willing to apply it everywhere. Not just America.

 

A fair wage is a living wage. My friends who apply for jobs for months on end and can barely get part time at just above minimum wage survive off bulk dried beans and don't really have money for anything else, let alone being able to save for education, or afford losing their job at all. They're one paycheck away from being homeless.

 

I understand you.

 

 

I find the lack of compassion in some of the responses rather disturbing.

[Burning_Ember]

The problem is, Burning Ember, we are not talking about the US.   You can't make the argument about the US so you have to find totally dissimilar conditions and pretend that little children in sweat shops are there because they willingly chose to work for that company.

 

In the US there are laws that guard against the things you are describing in China.

 

Let me know when you have an intelligent, thoughtful and rational argument to make. 

You stated;

1) if a person agrees to work for someone else, at the wages being offered, that person has no legitimate grounds to accuse the employer of being unfair.   If the employer pays what he and the employee agreed to, then the wage is fair.

 

2) "Fair wage"  should not be tied to a particular dollar amount.

 

3) All the Bible requires is that employers pay what they agreed to pay and not change the rules once the work has been done.   That is honest and fair.

 

4) If someone doesn't like what they're getting paid, they can get up off their butt and find another job that pays more, otherwise stop complaining and just do their job.

 

5) Many of these fair wage people only look at this from the vantage point of the burger flippers who are whining that they aren't getting paid enough.    A fair wage has to be understood in terms of the limited pool of $$$ that an employer has for payroll.

 

6) Fair wages, as defined by liberals isn't the same concept as we see in Scripture.   "A worker is worthy of his hire,"  Jesus said.  That is the merit system.   You do less you are worth less and get paid less (or fired).  You do more, you are worth more and get paid more. 

 

That's the Bible way, not the liberal, loony leftist way.

 

Do you stand by this or not?

[Guest shiloh357]

I stand by what I said, but that I said that in the context of a discussion about the US economy and working.   You are trying to take what I said and twist it to  make it appear as if I agree with sweatshops because you can't debate this in the context I was addressing.  

[Burning_Ember]

I stand by what I said, but that I said that in the context of a discussion about the US economy and working.   You are trying to take what I said and twist it to  make it appear as if I agree with sweatshops because you can't debate this in the context I was addressing.  

Well, then you aren't standing by what you said. 

 

If you say that if someone agrees to work for someone else they cannot accuse the employer of being unfair, and that you cannot set a dollar amount on what a fair wage is... But sweatshop rates and hours are too poor... Then it appears that yes, you can in fact have a legitimate complaint despite having agreed to a wage, and you can, in fact, set a dollar amount on what a fair wage would be.

[Guest shiloh357]

I can stand by what I said, because sweatshops are a different issue altogether.   In sweatshops around the world little children are forced to work in them into their teen years.  It's not the case that they had a choice to accept or reject the offer of employment.   They are required to work under those conditions.  Those not at all like what I am talking about.

 

I am talking about a free market economy, as well as a place where you go in apply for a job and agree to the wages and hours and working conditions the employer offers.

 

There may be some places in the US where there are sweatshop conditions, but they are finding a way to get around our labor laws and hide their injustices.

 

In the United States, if you apply for minimum wage job and you agree to that, the employer is not being unfair to you since you agreed that the wage offered was fair, when you applied.

[thereselittleflower]

I can stand by what I said, because sweatshops are a different issue altogether.   In sweatshops around the world little children are forced to work in them into their teen years.  It's not the case that they had a choice to accept or reject the offer of employment.   They are required to work under those conditions.  Those not at all like what I am talking about.

 

I am talking about a free market economy, as well as a place where you go in apply for a job and agree to the wages and hours and working conditions the employer offers.

 

There may be some places in the US where there are sweatshop conditions, but they are finding a way to get around our labor laws and hide their injustices.

 

In the United States, if you apply for minimum wage job and you agree to that, the employer is not being unfair to you since you agreed that the wage offered was fair, when you applied.

 

 

The mistake you are making is thinking that all that is involved in a fair wage is the wage itself.

 

For instance, an employer who does not give you breaks and meal times as mandated by law is not paying a fair wage.  The employer is actually getting away with not paying a wage for such periods.

[Burning_Ember]

I can stand by what I said, because sweatshops are a different issue altogether.   In sweatshops around the world little children are forced to work in them into their teen years.  It's not the case that they had a choice to accept or reject the offer of employment.   They are required to work under those conditions.  Those not at all like what I am talking about.

 

I am talking about a free market economy, as well as a place where you go in apply for a job and agree to the wages and hours and working conditions the employer offers.

 

There may be some places in the US where there are sweatshop conditions, but they are finding a way to get around our labor laws and hide their injustices.

 

In the United States, if you apply for minimum wage job and you agree to that, the employer is not being unfair to you since you agreed that the wage offered was fair, when you applied.

The idea that you think a wage is fair because you are getting paid that, is like saying you you think everything the government spends it's money on is fair, because you agreed to pay your taxes.

[ayin jade]

 

 

For instance, an employer who does not give you breaks and meal times as mandated by law is not paying a fair wage.  The employer is actually getting away with not paying a wage for such periods.

 

 

In that case, they are not getting the agreed upon wages. They are free to address it or seek work elsewhere. 

[Guest shiloh357]

That's not how I defined a fair wage.    A fair wage is what YOU agree to be paid by the employer.   If the employer offers you $8.00 an hour and you agree to that, then getting paid $8.00 is a fair wage.   You cannot agree to a wage and then accuse the employer of cheating you if he is paying what you agreed to.

[Guest shiloh357]

I am not saying that the wage is ONLY wrapped up in the hourly pay.  It includes the "Hidden paycheck"  i.e.  benefits, vacation, insurance, etc.  That would include breaks and meal time.  If an employee can demonstrate that he is not getting what he agreed to then the wage isn't fair, then he can claim he is not being treated fairly.