Guest shiloh357 Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 I live in an area where most of the work is retail industry and requires no special skills. The average wage around here is $8.00 an hour. Yet we have plenty of people who manage to pay bills and earn a living wage doing a lot of jobs that require little to no education. There lots of people in companies around here who take advantage of in house training programs and advance in their company. I know people who are not college grads who are managing Pizza Huts, retail stores and stuff. They put in the hours, showed up to work, didn't complain, they did their job and did so with a good attitude and showed they cared about the company. They came in when other workers called in sick. They went the extra mile and they have better positions and more pay as a result. Rarely does an unskilled person come on to a job making a huge amount of money. But some are a cut above and are willing to do more to make themselves useful to the company. Many CEOs started in the mailroom. But they a vision for themselves advancing in the company and they made it happen. Stories abound. If people put as much energy into their job as they with their pathetic whining and expecting something for nothing, they would make more money and have a better life. Some people prefer to be lazy, good for nothing whiners, I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thereselittleflower Posted August 4, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 58 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 5,457 Content Per Day: 1.68 Reputation: 4,220 Days Won: 37 Joined: 07/01/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted August 4, 2015 Judging everything by one's own personal experience easily leads to wrong conclusions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
udx Posted August 4, 2015 Group: Senior Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 18 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 684 Content Per Day: 0.12 Reputation: 230 Days Won: 2 Joined: 04/15/2009 Status: Offline Share Posted August 4, 2015 I guess it helps to go where the jobs are. There are cities where there are no high paying jobs available. But for the sake of this thread, Seattle WA isn't one of them. If you're not willing to commute and do what you have to do get to where the jobs are that pay better, then I guess all you have to choose from are the min wage jobs. Jacking up the pay for min wage jobs won't fix the problem. It only leads to more people working less hours getting paid more per hour, but bringing home the same low pay they made before because their hours went from 30-35 per week, down to 18-20 per week Many people can't get up and leave because of responsibilities. A friend of my daughter's, the one I have mentioned in another thread, is the oldest of 3 or 4 kids, and there are many issues going on among his siblings. His mother is very ill. His dad is making things hard on them, and even though the dad is no longer even with them, he arranges things to keep them destitute. My daughter's friend works 3 jobs to take care of his family, all low paying jobs because he has no other choice at the moment. He can't pick up and leave and go where the jobs might be for him. I think more sensitivity needs to be shown to people. Rather than think the worst of people, we are to think the best of others. Love Assumes the Best https://www.uu.edu/centers/rglee/fellows/fall01/hester.htm I am just as guilty as anyone else for not doing so. Forgive me. People do not get paid by their need in a job. They get paid according to what their skill is worth in the market. Arguing for higher wage/rises because of 'need' is the worst argument you could have with your employer. You tried that line with an employer and I can guarantee the employer would not be impressed. All these extraneous stories of employees should have no bearing on pay. I am sorry that this sounds cold, but a business isn't a charity, if individuals are really hurting they could plea their case at a charitable organization where circumstances matter. The articles you posted "Love Assumes the Best" have no bearing on this topic at all. The argument should always be about how much value (contribution) one brings to the table for the employer that justify higher pay, and how much value the employer would lose if they lose you as an employee if you go to a employer that pays you what you are worth. If no other employer would pay you higher, than you are already being paid market rate if not higher then be content with where you are at or try to increase your value to the companies or others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thereselittleflower Posted August 4, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 58 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 5,457 Content Per Day: 1.68 Reputation: 4,220 Days Won: 37 Joined: 07/01/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted August 4, 2015 I guess it helps to go where the jobs are. There are cities where there are no high paying jobs available. But for the sake of this thread, Seattle WA isn't one of them. If you're not willing to commute and do what you have to do get to where the jobs are that pay better, then I guess all you have to choose from are the min wage jobs. Jacking up the pay for min wage jobs won't fix the problem. It only leads to more people working less hours getting paid more per hour, but bringing home the same low pay they made before because their hours went from 30-35 per week, down to 18-20 per week Many people can't get up and leave because of responsibilities. A friend of my daughter's, the one I have mentioned in another thread, is the oldest of 3 or 4 kids, and there are many issues going on among his siblings. His mother is very ill. His dad is making things hard on them, and even though the dad is no longer even with them, he arranges things to keep them destitute. My daughter's friend works 3 jobs to take care of his family, all low paying jobs because he has no other choice at the moment. He can't pick up and leave and go where the jobs might be for him. I think more sensitivity needs to be shown to people. Rather than think the worst of people, we are to think the best of others. Love Assumes the Best https://www.uu.edu/centers/rglee/fellows/fall01/hester.htm I am just as guilty as anyone else for not doing so. Forgive me. People do not get paid by their need in a job. They get paid according to what their skill is worth in the market. Arguing for higher wage/rises because of 'need' is the worst argument you could have with your employer. You tried that line with an employer and I can guarantee the employer would not be impressed. All these extraneous stories of employees should have no bearing on pay. I am sorry that this sounds cold, but a business isn't a charity, if individuals are really hurting they could plea their case at a charitable organization where circumstances matter. The argument should always be about how much value (contribution) one brings to the table for the employer that justify higher pay, and how much value the employer would lose if they lose you as an employee if you go to a employer that pays you what you are worth. If no other employer would pay you higher, than you are already being paid market rate if not higher then be content with where you are at or try to increase your value to the companies or others. And then we see such a huge disparity in wage for the exact same job across the country. Tipped servers are paid $9/hour in some parts of the country, and just over $2/hr in others. The job is exactly the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
udx Posted August 4, 2015 Group: Senior Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 18 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 684 Content Per Day: 0.12 Reputation: 230 Days Won: 2 Joined: 04/15/2009 Status: Offline Share Posted August 4, 2015 I guess it helps to go where the jobs are. There are cities where there are no high paying jobs available. But for the sake of this thread, Seattle WA isn't one of them. If you're not willing to commute and do what you have to do get to where the jobs are that pay better, then I guess all you have to choose from are the min wage jobs. Jacking up the pay for min wage jobs won't fix the problem. It only leads to more people working less hours getting paid more per hour, but bringing home the same low pay they made before because their hours went from 30-35 per week, down to 18-20 per week Many people can't get up and leave because of responsibilities. A friend of my daughter's, the one I have mentioned in another thread, is the oldest of 3 or 4 kids, and there are many issues going on among his siblings. His mother is very ill. His dad is making things hard on them, and even though the dad is no longer even with them, he arranges things to keep them destitute. My daughter's friend works 3 jobs to take care of his family, all low paying jobs because he has no other choice at the moment. He can't pick up and leave and go where the jobs might be for him. I think more sensitivity needs to be shown to people. Rather than think the worst of people, we are to think the best of others. Love Assumes the Best https://www.uu.edu/centers/rglee/fellows/fall01/hester.htm I am just as guilty as anyone else for not doing so. Forgive me. People do not get paid by their need in a job. They get paid according to what their skill is worth in the market. Arguing for higher wage/rises because of 'need' is the worst argument you could have with your employer. You tried that line with an employer and I can guarantee the employer would not be impressed. All these extraneous stories of employees should have no bearing on pay. I am sorry that this sounds cold, but a business isn't a charity, if individuals are really hurting they could plea their case at a charitable organization where circumstances matter. The argument should always be about how much value (contribution) one brings to the table for the employer that justify higher pay, and how much value the employer would lose if they lose you as an employee if you go to a employer that pays you what you are worth. If no other employer would pay you higher, than you are already being paid market rate if not higher then be content with where you are at or try to increase your value to the companies or others. And then we see such a huge disparity in wage for the exact same job across the country. Tipped servers are paid $9/hour in some parts of the country, and just over $2/hr in others. The job is exactly the same. That is not true, you should know this! If you did not, then you do not understand how the wage system works or you are intentionally spreading false information. By law employers are require to pay employees so that they average out to local minimum wage after tip is added to their base wage. Like we mention before, it is hard to find two jobs that are exactly the same in all aspects and nature, even if they are same pay differ due to local cost of living etc. I can guarantee you, nobody would really work at $2/hr on average. If I can legally pay people at $2/hr, I would start my own business right now. I can see a lot of business opportunities that would be profitable with labor at $2/hr rather than $8/hr. You see, lower minimum wage reduces barrier in starting a business, and higher minimum wage increases barrier of business. Increase the minimum wage too much, then only large corporations would remain competitive because of economy of scale. A lot of business you would never see in an area is because local minimum wage is too high. High minimum wages kill business in the concept stage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thereselittleflower Posted August 4, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 58 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 5,457 Content Per Day: 1.68 Reputation: 4,220 Days Won: 37 Joined: 07/01/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted August 4, 2015 I guess it helps to go where the jobs are. There are cities where there are no high paying jobs available. But for the sake of this thread, Seattle WA isn't one of them. If you're not willing to commute and do what you have to do get to where the jobs are that pay better, then I guess all you have to choose from are the min wage jobs. Jacking up the pay for min wage jobs won't fix the problem. It only leads to more people working less hours getting paid more per hour, but bringing home the same low pay they made before because their hours went from 30-35 per week, down to 18-20 per week Many people can't get up and leave because of responsibilities. A friend of my daughter's, the one I have mentioned in another thread, is the oldest of 3 or 4 kids, and there are many issues going on among his siblings. His mother is very ill. His dad is making things hard on them, and even though the dad is no longer even with them, he arranges things to keep them destitute. My daughter's friend works 3 jobs to take care of his family, all low paying jobs because he has no other choice at the moment. He can't pick up and leave and go where the jobs might be for him. I think more sensitivity needs to be shown to people. Rather than think the worst of people, we are to think the best of others. Love Assumes the Best https://www.uu.edu/centers/rglee/fellows/fall01/hester.htm I am just as guilty as anyone else for not doing so. Forgive me. People do not get paid by their need in a job. They get paid according to what their skill is worth in the market. Arguing for higher wage/rises because of 'need' is the worst argument you could have with your employer. You tried that line with an employer and I can guarantee the employer would not be impressed. All these extraneous stories of employees should have no bearing on pay. I am sorry that this sounds cold, but a business isn't a charity, if individuals are really hurting they could plea their case at a charitable organization where circumstances matter. The argument should always be about how much value (contribution) one brings to the table for the employer that justify higher pay, and how much value the employer would lose if they lose you as an employee if you go to a employer that pays you what you are worth. If no other employer would pay you higher, than you are already being paid market rate if not higher then be content with where you are at or try to increase your value to the companies or others. And then we see such a huge disparity in wage for the exact same job across the country. Tipped servers are paid $9/hour in some parts of the country, and just over $2/hr in others. The job is exactly the same. That is not true, you should know this! If you did not, then you do not understand how the wage system works or you are intentionally spreading false information. By law employers are require to pay employees so that they average out to local minimum wage after tip is added to their base wage. It is absolutely true. Tipped employees make more than the minimum wage in those places where it is low. The fall back is for when they don't. In contrast, in other parts of the country, they get $9/hour PLUS tips, so they never have to worry about tips making up the balance of their wages. I know this for a fact as my daughter is one who earns a minimum wage at the top of this scale and receives tips on top of that. Never are her tips counted as part of her wage. It would be best for you to do some research on the matter before calling someone else a liar. The only reason my daughter gets paid so much more than those in the states where they get just over $2/hour is the law. There is no value difference in the job done contributing to her pay being higher than others on the other side of the country. The employers are required by law to pay her full minimum wage BEFORE tips. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
udx Posted August 4, 2015 Group: Senior Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 18 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 684 Content Per Day: 0.12 Reputation: 230 Days Won: 2 Joined: 04/15/2009 Status: Offline Share Posted August 4, 2015 The employers are required by law to pay her full minimum wage BEFORE tips. You are wrong. Read the US department of labor law. I did do my research, you are ignorant of labor wage laws. I stand by what I said, you are either deliberately lying or are ignorant, your choice. http://www.dol.gov/whd/minwage/q-a.htm An employer may pay a tipped employee not less than $2.13 an hour in direct wages if that amount plus the tips received equal at least the federal minimum wage, the employee retains all tips and the employee customarily and regularly receives more than $30 a month in tips. If an employee's tips combined with the employer's direct wages of at least $2.13 an hour do not equal the federal minimum hourly wage, the employer must make up the difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thereselittleflower Posted August 4, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 58 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 5,457 Content Per Day: 1.68 Reputation: 4,220 Days Won: 37 Joined: 07/01/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted August 4, 2015 The employers are required by law to pay her full minimum wage BEFORE tips. You are wrong. Read the US department of labor law. I did do my research, you are ignorant of labor wage laws. I stand by what I said, you are either deliberately lying or are ignorant, your choice. http://www.dol.gov/whd/minwage/q-a.htm An employer may pay a tipped employee not less than $2.13 an hour in direct wages if that amount plus the tips received equal at least the federal minimum wage, the employee retains all tips and the employee customarily and regularly receives more than $30 a month in tips. If an employee's tips combined with the employer's direct wages of at least $2.13 an hour do not equal the federal minimum hourly wage, the employer must make up the difference. You are ignoring state laws. There are several states that mandate that tipped servers be paid full minimum wage before tips, and others that require much more than just over $2/hour. Are you suggesting that my daughter who lives in a state that requires employers to pay full minimum wage before tips and so does not rely on tips for her wages is somehow relying on tips for her wages? The end result is they are paid full minimum wage before tips while other states have not protected the wages of workers doing the exact same job. The inequity is astounding. And it is all a matter of laws. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thereselittleflower Posted August 4, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 58 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 5,457 Content Per Day: 1.68 Reputation: 4,220 Days Won: 37 Joined: 07/01/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted August 4, 2015 Besides providing a chart that shows the disparity in wages across the country for tipped workers, this article has this to say: tipped workers are hit especially hard by "wage theft," whereby restaurants don't make up the difference when the tips aren't rolling in. Between 2010 and 2012, the Wage and Hour Division of the Department of Labor conducted nearly 9,000 investigations in the restaurant industry, and discovered that 83.8 percent had some kind of wage and hour violation. Hovland tells Mother Jones that before she got in touch with the Restaurant Opportunities Center last fall—to find out why she was getting zero-dollar paychecks—she had no idea that her employer was supposed to make up the difference in tips. "We never logged our tips or reported them to our employers," she says, unless they were on credit cards. She adds, "Even after I shared information about the minimum wage difference with coworkers, nobody felt comfortable asking employers about it." http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2014/05/minimum-wage-tip-map-waiters-waitresses-servers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayin jade Posted August 4, 2015 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 44 Topic Count: 6,178 Topics Per Day: 0.87 Content Count: 43,799 Content Per Day: 6.19 Reputation: 11,244 Days Won: 58 Joined: 01/03/2005 Status: Offline Author Share Posted August 4, 2015 The employers are required by law to pay her full minimum wage BEFORE tips. You are wrong. Read the US department of labor law. I did do my research, you are ignorant of labor wage laws. I stand by what I said, you are either deliberately lying or are ignorant, your choice. http://www.dol.gov/whd/minwage/q-a.htm An employer may pay a tipped employee not less than $2.13 an hour in direct wages if that amount plus the tips received equal at least the federal minimum wage, the employee retains all tips and the employee customarily and regularly receives more than $30 a month in tips. If an employee's tips combined with the employer's direct wages of at least $2.13 an hour do not equal the federal minimum hourly wage, the employer must make up the difference. You are ignoring state laws. There are several states that mandate that tipped servers be paid full minimum wage before tips, and others that require much more than just over $2/hour. Are you suggesting that my daughter who lives in a state that requires employers to pay full minimum wage before tips and so does not rely on tips for her wages is somehow relying on tips for her wages? The end result is they are paid full minimum wage before tips while other states have not protected the wages of workers doing the exact same job. The inequity is astounding. And it is all a matter of laws. Then the price of gas, food, utilities, rent/mortgage should be identical in new york city, california and oklahoma. They are not. Wages reflect the cost of living in each area. It would be inequitable to expect the wages in california to equal that of oklahoma or new york city. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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