God still loves the Jewish people

[JohnD]

And about getting slammed around here (and elsewhere) it sucks but comes with the territory. 

[OakWood]

On 15/09/2015 at 2:29 AM, Esther4:14 said:

"So Pilate asked Him, saying, "Are You the King of the Jews?" And He answered him and said, "It is as you say." (Luke 23:3).  

Jesus death on the cross set Israel free from the leaders who were destroying and scattering the sheep (Jeremiah 23:1), and it was the descendants of Israel who built the church apart form the ones who had led them into captivity not too long before.  The King of the Jews set blameless Jews like Peter, and Andrew, and Thomas free from the ones who "shut the door of the Kingdom of Heaven in peoples faces" (Matthew 23:13); and didn't realize they were victims of this spiritual offence.  It is these same people who want the world to believe that the church is not the descendants of Israel already.  Who has wanted to reject that Jesus was the true messiah more than a Jew with authority like the Pharisees or the descendants of Herod.  

It is these people who have taken the identity of Israel away from the church today.  I mean really, the 12 disciples were Jewish.   There were millions of Jewish converts after Pentecost.  But, somehow or another, the church today is made up of gentiles and the ones that represent Israel are the ones who have still not accepted Jesus as the Messiah.  This is a teaching of Pharisees.  Sure there are still descendants  of Israel who could accept Christ as the disciples did.  I would hope that they would.  But, the church descends from Israel already.  The church represents Israel.  The Jews today represent another part of the world that remains to preach the gospel too, because there have been many already who do not even know that they descend from Israel, because they took their identity away throughout the last 2000 years of persecution.  Because Israel remains divided over Christ.  

It is like we talk about Israel today as though Jesus did not preach in Jerusalem and went to South Africa or something.  It is like those who are descendants of Israel within the church today don't deserve to inherit Israel the same way the one who remain a Jew because they never accepted Christ do.  

So, yes God still loves the Jewish people (in other words, the church) today.   

The Church is NOT Israel....... The Church does NOT represent Israel.

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, JohnD said:

An interesting interpretation. Along the lines of underlying prophecy / mysticism (which when biblically sound is a-okay with God... for example the sign of Jonah [1 Corinthians 15:4 / Matthew 12:39-40] otherwise we would be hard pressed to find the exact phrased scripture in the OT).

The underlying interpretation being the intention of God from the beginning was the spiritual rather than the physical. I agree with this. In fact, I believe the scriptures teach that the physical realm was created for the purpose of riding the spirit realm (and the physical realm) of evil.

Isaiah 14:26 (AV)

26 This is the purpose that is purposed upon the whole earth: and this is the hand that is stretched out upon all the nations.

Colossians 1:20 (AV)

20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.

Matthew 16:19 (AV)

19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

The physical heirs of Abraham Isaac and Jacob were tools of God to usher Truth into this fallen world (written and Truth personified) and to mark time prophetically. For this they ate as loved by God today as ever.

I am not sure what you mean about mysticism, but it is because of what is said in the new covenant teachings, I look t these things.

first look at acts

7:2  And he said, Men, brethren, and fathers, hearken; The God of glory appeared unto our father Abraham, when he was in Mesopotamia, before he dwelt in Charran,
3  And said unto him, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and come into the land which I shall shew thee.
4  Then came he out of the land of the Chaldaeans, and dwelt in Charran: and from thence, when his father was dead, he removed him into this land, wherein ye now dwell.
5  And he gave him none inheritance in it, no, not so much as to set his foot on: yet he promised that he would give it to him for a possession, and to his seed after him, when as yet he had no child.
6  And God spake on this wise, That his seed should sojourn in a strange land; and that they should bring them into bondage, and entreat them evil four hundred years.
7  And the nation to whom they shall be in bondage will I judge, said God: and after that shall they come forth, and serve me in this place.
 

So Acts is speaking in the above of the covenant made in Genesis 15.  God had prior to the covenants, mentioned giving his seed the land. As

Ge 12:6  And Abram passed through the land unto the place of Sichem, unto the plain of Moreh. And the Canaanite was then in the land. {plain: Heb. plains }
Ge 12:7  And the LORD appeared unto Abram, and said, Unto thy seed will I give this land: and there builded he an altar unto the LORD, who appeared unto him.

When he enters the land and sees it.......

Ge 13:15  For all the land which thou seest, to thee will I give it, and to thy seed for ever.
Ge 13:17 

Ge 15:7  And he said unto him, I am the LORD that brought thee out of Ur of the Chaldees, to give thee this land to inherit it.
Ge 15:13  And he said unto Abram, Know of a surety that thy seed shall be a stranger in a land that is not theirs, and shall serve them; and they shall afflict them four hundred years;
Ge 15:18  In the same day the LORD made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates:

Note what this covenant says to Abraham...............

He will die............

15  And thou shalt go to thy fathers in peace; thou shalt be buried in a good old age.

This covenant concerns heirs of the 4th Generation of his seed.......................
16  But in the fourth generation they shall come hither again: for the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet full.
 

Then acts  it goes on to mention the covenant of Genesis 17. Which is established in Isaac, and his faith is tested by the offering up of Isaac.

Which much in the book of Hebrews speaks. It speaks of them having died in faith not having received the promise.

 

[Guest]

16 minutes ago, Joline said:

I am not sure what you mean about mysticism, but it is because of what is said in the new covenant teachings, I look t these things.

first look at acts

7:2  And he said, Men, brethren, and fathers, hearken; The God of glory appeared unto our father Abraham, when he was in Mesopotamia, before he dwelt in Charran,
3  And said unto him, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and come into the land which I shall shew thee.
4  Then came he out of the land of the Chaldaeans, and dwelt in Charran: and from thence, when his father was dead, he removed him into this land, wherein ye now dwell.
5  And he gave him none inheritance in it, no, not so much as to set his foot on: yet he promised that he would give it to him for a possession, and to his seed after him, when as yet he had no child.
6  And God spake on this wise, That his seed should sojourn in a strange land; and that they should bring them into bondage, and entreat them evil four hundred years.
7  And the nation to whom they shall be in bondage will I judge, said God: and after that shall they come forth, and serve me in this place.
 

So Acts is speaking in the above of the covenant made in Genesis 15.  God had prior to the covenants, mentioned giving his seed the land. As

Ge 12:6  And Abram passed through the land unto the place of Sichem, unto the plain of Moreh. And the Canaanite was then in the land. {plain: Heb. plains }
Ge 12:7  And the LORD appeared unto Abram, and said, Unto thy seed will I give this land: and there builded he an altar unto the LORD, who appeared unto him.

When he enters the land and sees it.......

Ge 13:15  For all the land which thou seest, to thee will I give it, and to thy seed for ever.
Ge 13:17 

Ge 15:7  And he said unto him, I am the LORD that brought thee out of Ur of the Chaldees, to give thee this land to inherit it.
Ge 15:13  And he said unto Abram, Know of a surety that thy seed shall be a stranger in a land that is not theirs, and shall serve them; and they shall afflict them four hundred years;
Ge 15:18  In the same day the LORD made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates:

Note what this covenant says to Abraham...............

He will die............

15  And thou shalt go to thy fathers in peace; thou shalt be buried in a good old age.

This covenant concerns heirs of the 4th Generation of his seed.......................
16  But in the fourth generation they shall come hither again: for the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet full.
 

Then acts  it goes on to mention the covenant of Genesis 17. Which is established in Isaac, and his faith is tested by the offering up of Isaac.

Which much in the book of Hebrews speaks. It speaks of them having died in faith not having received the promise.

 

Continued

Heb 11:9  By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise:
10  For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.
11  Through faith also Sara herself received strength to conceive seed, and was delivered of a child when she was past age, because she judged him faithful who had promised.
12  Therefore sprang there even of one, and him as good as dead, so many as the stars of the sky in multitude, and as the sand which is by the sea shore innumerable.
13  These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth. {in faith: Gr. according to faith }
14  For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country.
15  And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned.
16  But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.

17  By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son, (note: only begotten = as a sole heir)
18  Of whom it was said, That in Isaac shall thy seed be called: {Of: or, To }
19  Accounting that God was able to raise him up, even from the dead; from whence also he received him in a figure.

Gal 3:14  That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
15  Brethren, I speak after the manner of men; Though it be but a man’s covenant, yet if it be confirmed, no man disannulleth, or addeth thereto. {covenant: or, testament }
16  Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
(again note only born son is a sole heir.......A firstborn receives a double portion)

17  And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.
18  For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.
 

We see only born as an only heir here in these scriptures

5  And Abraham gave all that he had unto Isaac.
6  But unto the sons of the concubines, which Abraham had, Abraham gave gifts, and sent them away from Isaac his son, while he yet lived, eastward, unto the east country.
 

Note what Hebrews tells us

Heb 9:16  For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. {be: or, be brought in }
Heb 9:17  For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.

 

[Qnts2]

3 hours ago, JohnD said:

Salvation has never been a birthright.

It is a matter of spirituality not physicality.

The spiritually saved cannot replace the physically unsaved as you claim.

Spirit Israel is not the replacement of Physical Israel in any way.

I never said salvation was a birthright so that is a straw man argument. Same with your statement about spirituality vs physicality.

There is no such thing as spirit Israel in scripture. There is physical Israel in scripture.

 

 

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, Qnts2 said:

I never said salvation was a birthright so that is a straw man argument. Same with your statement about spirituality vs physicality.

There is no such thing as spirit Israel in scripture. There is physical Israel in scripture.

 

 

I don't know about that Qnts.

Joh 3:3  Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. {again: or, from above }
Joh 3:7  Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. {again: or, from above }
1Pe 1:23  Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

Jew as well as Gentile are the seed of Abraham. Gentiles are not physical seed. Nor are non levites priests.

Heb 7:16  Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life.
17  For he testifieth, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.
18  For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.
 

[Qnts2]

1 minute ago, Joline said:

I don't know about that Qnts.

Joh 3:3  Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. {again: or, from above }
Joh 3:7  Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. {again: or, from above }
1Pe 1:23  Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

Jew as well as Gentile are the seed of Abraham. Gentiles are not physical seed. Nor are non levites priests.

Heb 7:16  Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life.
17  For he testifieth, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.
18  For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.
 

Your argument makes no sense to me.

Gentiles are not physical seed of Israel. They are physical seed of whatever ethnic group they belong to. While Jews are physical seed of Abraham, so are the descendents of Ishmael. Some Arabs of the Arabian peninsula are descendents of Ishmael, but Ishmael was not the child of promise, Isaac was the child of promise. The Jewish people are descendents of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. No where in scripture are Christians referred to as children of Jacob. There are spiritual children or children by faith of Abraham. There is no such thing as a spiritual child or child by faith of Jacob/renamed Israel. 

[Guest]

19 minutes ago, Qnts2 said:

Your argument makes no sense to me.

Gentiles are not physical seed of Israel. They are physical seed of whatever ethnic group they belong to. While Jews are physical seed of Abraham, so are the descendents of Ishmael. Some Arabs of the Arabian peninsula are descendents of Ishmael, but Ishmael was not the child of promise, Isaac was the child of promise. The Jewish people are descendents of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. No where in scripture are Christians referred to as children of Jacob. There are spiritual children or children by faith of Abraham. There is no such thing as a spiritual child or child by faith of Jacob/renamed Israel. 

I was pointing out your contradiction concerning no Spirit Isreal.

We who are in Christ are the seed of Abraham...................Gentiles are not physical seed obviously. Therefore all are born again in Christ for spiritual seed.

[Qnts2]

27 minutes ago, Joline said:

I was pointing out your contradiction concerning no Spirit Isreal.

We who are in Christ are the seed of Abraham...................Gentiles are not physical seed obviously. Therefore all are born again in Christ for spiritual seed.

The seed of Abraham does not make a person Spirit Israel. Abraham was not Israel. Jacob was Israel.

Spirtiual seed can be interpreted as spiritual seed of Abraham or Spiritual seed of Jesus, but not Jacob/Israel. There is no spirit Israel in scripture.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Qnts2 said:

The seed of Abraham does not make a person Spirit Israel. Abraham was not Israel. Jacob was Israel.

Spirtiual seed can be interpreted as spiritual seed of Abraham or Spiritual seed of Jesus, but not Jacob/Israel. There is no spirit Israel in scripture.

 

1 minute ago, Qnts2 said:

The seed of Abraham does not make a person Spirit Israel. Abraham was not Israel. Jacob was Israel.

Spirtiual seed can be interpreted as spiritual seed of Abraham or Spiritual seed of Jesus, but not Jacob/Israel. There is no spirit Israel in scripture.

Ah, I see now where you are coming from. I am still not understanding on what principal or idea that Jacob, Israel is distinct from the promises made as a seed of Abraham though.