Can anyone tell me how to cleanse the inside of the cup and the plate?

[thereselittleflower]

Chaste and virtual hugs for the responses in this thread.  I try atonement, repentance, confession, attempting to avoid things that are harmful for me morally, remorse, prayer; try to take every thought captive, but still I struggle with various moral and spiritual issues.  I feel so discouraged and hopeless when I am not seeing progress.  It’s the best when I feel cleansed by Christ (there is so much more spiritual growth than with anything that I try to do), but I feel that I need to be doing some things as well on my part to try to help.

 

You may benefit from a book used by christians from all walks -  The Imitation of Christ

[Guest shiloh357]

The Imitation of Christ is rife with false teachings, such as the belief that we can attain perfection in this life, something the Bible never says.   Secondly, this book promotes a works-based system of salvation wherein salvation depends on the person removing all "obstacles to grace"  and that grace is infused through participation in the Eucharist. 

The problem is that one can never know in this life, if one has removed all of the obstacles, and so there is no assurance of eternal life for anyone if they follow Kempis'  instructions unless one attains perfection and even then it is subject to loss.    In Kempis' view, the grace of God can be lost.  One might attain perfection but lose it all through one sin. 

In this book salvation is based on you attaining perfection and staying perfect in order to keep the grace of God.   It completely defies the very definition of grace.  Grace that is earned is not grace and can never be.

Any teaching that puts human effort over the grace of God is of no value to the Christian community.

Edited October 1, 2015 by shiloh357

[Guest]

Thanks, Ethrayn. How's everything going right now?

 

God Bless you.

 

Your brother in Christ,

KPaulG.

I’ve been having some severe private struggles involving me and my God (that also affect my husband, unfortunately).  It’s difficult to get through my days, and I don’t really know what to do anymore (in this current downer of a mood).  It helps to read the posts in this thread a lot—-kind and bright hopeful things.

[Guest]

I love to be able to help, but find my virtues are tested and

almost taken away when I engage in full-fledged spiritual battles.

It would help you to talk to some Christians you know personally and trust to (a) stand with you in prayer, (b) join with you in outreach and, (c) disciple you if they have the spiritual maturity and concern for your growth and strengthening.  In the early Church, Christians were freely sharing their resources.

That’s kind of what has happened here.

[Guest]

Matthew 23:26

'Blind Pharisee! cleanse first the inside of the cup and the plate, that the outside of them also may become clean.

Say the following scripture with me, Ethrayn.

Psalm 139:23-24New Living Translation (NLT)

23 Search me, O God, and know my heart;
    test me and know my anxious thoughts.
24 Point out anything in me that offends you,
    and lead me along the path of everlasting life.

I did so.  A few years ago, I was afraid of doing this (praying to have my sins pointed out in me), because I felt like I would only see all sorts of morally bad actions that I wasn’t willing (at the time) or able to address.  Since then, I have become used to constantly seeing things I am doing wrong on a daily basis.  It’s humbling, but I’d rather be in that place.

 

[Guest]

Hello Ethryan, I really think Shiloh gave some great advice, and believe me I really understand how you feel.  We all fail God so badly, it is hard to understand how God can even care about us, even Paul the great Apostle speaks of this in Romans 7:14-23 over and over again saying the good that he would do, he does not; and the evil that he would not do, he ends up doing.  So Paul cries out at the end of this chapter these words:  24)  O wretched man that i am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?    25)  I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord.  So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.   Romans 7:24-25

I have definitely had problems with this as of late.

My only advice for any believer is never hold a grudge, we may think we have a right too, but Jesus tells us to be forgiven we must forgive other also, Matthew 6:14-15   The Christian is not known by his / her sinlessness; but Jesus says we are know by our love one for another--John 13:34-35; love that only the Holy Spirit can produce see Romans 5:5 and I Peter 1:22

I have struggled with holding grudges, especially in the past, so at those times, I don’t think I am worthy of being forgiven (if I don’t do the same).  At times like those, I hope for God’s grace and mercy to pardon my sins.

[Guest]

Our body is a vessel.  A cup if you will.  It is our dwelling place.  Scripture teaches us to meditate on things that are pure and wholesome. 

I find this difficult to do.  I don’t know what to focus on a lot during my idle times, because everything has changed.  By the end of the day, I am exhausted from exerting my will to control my thoughts, until I can become unable to do so (working on developing more endurance at the same time makes this even harder to do).  I often become caught up in negative ruminations to the point where I just need to sleep so that they will end.  I go from elation to the depths of despair, wishing for God to take me Home.

We are taught to resist evil desires through the spirit.  Exercising ourselves unto godliness is a progressive matter and one can become very strong in the spirit just as one can become lax and lazy and end up overcome by sin and wickedness all over again.  We are admonished to be strong in the Lord.

Exercise yourself to be as God is and evil will depart from you in short order.  Pride is that which all evil suffers from so when one resists evil the pride in that which is evil drives the evil away.  It is a controversial discussion but I am of the mind that devils (evil spirits) attack from within.  I respect those who believe otherwise but agree to disagree with them.  There are times when I realize that there is something very wicked in me that needs to leave.  There came a day when I finally understood what people were really saying when they said things like "I wonder what has gotten into him?".  Yet I believe they say it without knowing what they are really saying in truth.

Good points.  I feel that fasting (even in concept--not just from food, etc) from certain things for awhile can help break up negative thought patterns that have a hold on me. 

I was once given over to a reprobate mind and even after coming to believe was reprobate concerning faith but through continued striving to grow by subjecting myself to that which is of God I have found relief from much of that which drove me to be so sinful before.  

My best weapon against evil is Gods Holy Spirit.  I stir up the Spirit in me through prayer, singing and speaking the word of God allowed especially proclaiming the truth about Jesus.  Declaring that Jesus is the Son of God who came in the flesh who is Lord of Lord and King of Kings and blessed above all.  I desire to be as he is, a savior, and exercise myself to refrain from that which destroys and give myself to the salvation of others through truth.

My biggest hurts are things that are selfish and self-centered in nature.  I have to be careful not to get lost in selfish pursuits of happiness through my flesh.  God made food to be consumed but I can forget that I need to eat to live and begin to live to eat.  Same with any of our God given instincts.  They can all be taken to excess.  I had to give up alcohol completely except for medicinal purposes because I found that I lost control over myself if I drank.  I also found that I needed a complete overhaul in the area of sexual matters.  When bothered by such things I give myself to ministering to the needs of others and the intimate connection of being deeply involved with them satisfies the longing for physical intimacy with another human being.  Especially if the work is intense and extensive like coming along side someone who is lost to the point of homelessness or shattered family life.  

I pray this gives you something that helps.

 

It’s refreshing to read your perspective.  It’s a bit different than my own experience, but neat to read how you have escaped entrapment of sin (and it is helpful, too :)).

[Guest]

Usually when I was discouraged over my failures, God was working to change bad attudes of another nature.  But as said before, love is the key.  And if you read 1 Cor. 13 you know that we need God's love and not our own to love the unlovable and forgive the unforgivable.  So I asked God to fill me with His love and love them through me.  But it took time for me to realize that Christ really does live in me.  It took time for me to realize that others are either lost and in need of His love,, or else they are redeemed and in need of His love. We all need God's unconditional love that sees the needs and not the faults.  It is a growing process.  

We are indeed saved by grace through faith.  It is indeed a gift from God and no one is worthy.  Only Christ is worthy.  It is humbling when we let this fact sink into our hearts.  But it causes our hearts to break forth in to praise and worship, and thanksgiving.  No one can be good enough to go to heaven!  I am heir to God's blessings only because Christ lives in me and I am found to be in Christ.  Read Ephesians 1.

A chapter in the devotional Let Go by Fenelon states that dispair over our imperfections is a greater obsticle than the imperfection itself!.  How true.  Any time we are looking at ourselves with our imperfections we have taken our eyes off Christ and His beauty.  We can only walk on water when our eyes are firmly fixed on our Savior.  As soon as we look at the wind and the waves, we sink.   

Bless you my sister.  We all go through this and our continual struggle is to allow our old man to die and to keep our eyes on God.   

Thank you for your kind words, Willa.  Yes, God’s love is necessary for compassion, selflessness, avoiding bitterness and pride, etc.

[Guest]

We all go through this and our continual struggle is to allow our old man to die and to keep our eyes on God.   

So Ethrayn, you are not the only one.

 

I struggle too.

 

God Bless you.

 

Your brother in Christ,

KPaulG.

I appreciate your encouragement, KPaulG, and find it very helpful.  Thank you.

[thereselittleflower]

The Imitation of Christ is rife with false teachings, such as the belief that we can attain perfection in this life, something the Bible never says.   

 

So Jesus gave us a false command?

Matthew 5:48

Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect

 

 

Matthew 5:48 

You therefore must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

 

So scripture tells us to be perfect and how to be perfect, but that's a lie?

James 1:4 

And let steadfastness have its full effect, that you may be perfect and complete, lacking in nothing.

 

1 John 2:5

But whoever keeps his word, in him truly the love of God is perfected. By this we may know that we are in him:

 

1 John 4:12 

No one has ever seen God; if we love one another, God abides in us and his love is perfected in us.

 

Philippians 2:14-15 

14 Do all things without grumbling or disputing, 15 That you may be blameless and innocent, children of God without blemish in the midst of a crooked and twisted generation, among whom you shine as lights in the world,

 

2 Corinthians 7:1 

Since we have these promises, beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from every defilement of body and spirit, bringing holiness to completion in the fear of God.

 

 

Matthew 19:21 

Jesus said to him, “If you would be perfect, go, sell what you possess and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow me.”

 

 

Luke 6:40 

A disciple is not above his teacher, but everyone when he is fully trained will be like his teacher

 

 

 

Edited October 2, 2015 by thereselittleflower