Matthew 5:25

[Pamelasv]

'Make friends quickly with your opponent at law while you are with him on the way, so that your opponent may not hand you over to the judge, and the judge to the officer, and you be thrown into prison. "Truly I say to you, you will not come out of there until you have paid up the last cent.' 

Does this apply in anyway to our modern day lives, unless of course you are guilty?  But why would Jesus be giving this advice in the first place to those who would be listening to him who want to practice righteousness? 

It sounds like in these verses that one is automatically guilty without a fair trial, back then. 

So does this apply in anyway to today? At least in a country with fair laws.  Perhaps in some other places where law enforcement take bribes left and right.  I know there are some.  I think in the African continent of (N......my mind is at a blank. It is where all those fake emails and phone calls come from where they want to scam you).  

[post]

On 12/12/2015 at 8:22 AM, Pamelasv said:

It sounds like in these verses that one is automatically guilty without a fair trial, back then. 

doesn't sound that way to me. 

let's look at the whole context -- 

²¹ “You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not murder; and whoever murders will be liable to judgment.’ 
²² But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother will be liable to judgment; whoever insults his brother will be liable to the council; and whoever says, ‘You fool!’ will be liable to the hell of fire. 
²³ So if you are offering your gift at the altar and there remember that your brother has something against you, 
²⁴ leave your gift there before the altar and go. First be reconciled to your brother, and then come and offer your gift. 
²⁵ Come to terms quickly with your accuser while you are going with him to court, lest your accuser hand you over to the judge, and the judge to the guard, and you be put in prison. 
²⁶ Truly, I say to you, you will never get out until you have paid the last penny." 

notice verse 24 starts with "So .. " ? 
this means the reason for the advice given in 24-26 is explained in 21-23. 
so what does 21-23 explain? than actions are subject to judgement - stricter judgement than what is commonly imagined. 

"so" -- to avoid placing yourself under judgement, where you may be condemned, Jesus is teaching us to settle disputes 'out of court' if possible. this goes for whether you accept your own guilt (trivially in this case you benefit by avoiding trial) or whether you think you are innocent - because you are not your own judge, but God is ultimately judge - and will hold everyone liable for every careless word, if they fall under judgement. 
Christ is telling us here to seek mercy and peace, because it is better. if you are guilty, you are guilty - with or without a trial - a trial simply finds you out, and given the extreme interpretation He is presenting in this chapter (i.e. you are guilty of adultery in your heart for so much as looking and entertaining a thought, regardless of action) -- you may very well be more guilty that you believe. 

isn't this what the gospel is? 
that Christ has come and made atonement for us, sent by God to redeem us from the law, to forswear judgement? 
so make peace with God before it "comes to trial" -- accept the absolution of His Son! and so escape judgement

[Your closest friendnt]

On 12 December, 2015 at 8:22 AM, Pamelasv said:

'Make friends quickly with your opponent at law while you are with him on the way, so that your opponent may not hand you over to the judge, and the judge to the officer, and you be thrown into prison. "Truly I say to you, you will not come out of there until you have paid up the last cent.' 

Does this apply in anyway to our modern day lives, unless of course you are guilty?  But why would Jesus be giving this advice in the first place to those who would be listening to him who want to practice righteousness? 

It sounds like in these verses that one is automatically guilty without a fair trial, back then. 

So does this apply in anyway to today? At least in a country with fair laws.  Perhaps in some other places where law enforcement take bribes left and right.  I know there are some.  I think in the African continent of (N......my mind is at a blank. It is where all those fake emails and phone calls come from where they want to scam you).  

This is how I understand it. 

Jesus is talking about someone who is offering a gift. That time to offer a gift would mean that you are asking something from the Lord.

This man was seeking divine providence, and he believed that he has it. His confidence was in the promishes of God. And perhaps he believed that with the offering of his gift he will continiun in his favour.

Jesus is trying to show that God is fair. 

This man must have know the wrong he has done to someone else, but he had an a exuse and had justified his wrong doing, and thus he had peace in his conscience, or he was a hero in his own mind and he had refuse to make things right.

Jesus is trying to say, that according to the cultural rules and regulations in his land, he own to the other person a retribution, and that his exuse is not a defence in this situation, and when he will appear in front of the Tribunal he fairly has to be fount at fault. And that is a fair judgement

But Jesus suppose found him, offering a gift and saying that the Lord is my sheild and my bucke, in him I will not fear.

But there is a claim pending in the court against him for what he has done to someone else. 

Jesus is telling him that he must pay the damage he has done to the one who has complained against him, because he is in the wrong, and he must not ignore it and say I have faith that God will protect me, 

Jesus was rebuking him to count on his faith, as to avoid making things right, when there is a claim against him in the court.

And when they execute the warrant and bring him before the Judge, his exuse will not be counted as a defence, and the Justice will find him guilty.

Sometimes the exuse can go some way to reduce the sentence, but some times may have the opposite effect. 

If there were, no claim against him, what would Jesus say? 

Perhaps teach him how to think and act deferent in the future, spare him the road.  

Maybe the complainant had been enrich by cheating other people.

Never the less he had file a complain against the gift giver.

It is better to be fair to one another, that pleases God more,

Than to give gifts to him, and be unfair to one another.  

 

[Pamelasv]

7 hours ago, Your closest friendnt said:

This is how I understand it. 

Jesus is talking about someone who is offering a gift. That time to offer a gift would mean that you are asking something from the Lord.

This man was seeking divine providence, and he believed that he has it. His confidence was in the promishes of God. And perhaps he believed that with the offering of his gift he will continiun in his favour.

Jesus is trying to show that God is fair. 

This man must have know the wrong he has done to someone else, but he had an a exuse and had justified his wrong doing, and thus he had peace in his conscience, or he was a hero in his own mind and he had refuse to make things right.

Jesus is trying to say, that according to the cultural rules and regulations in his land, he own to the other person a retribution, and that his exuse is not a defence in this situation, and when he will appear in front of the Tribunal he fairly has to be fount at fault. And that is a fair judgement

But Jesus suppose found him, offering a gift and saying that the Lord is my sheild and my bucke, in him I will not fear.

But there is a claim pending in the court against him for what he has done to someone else. 

Jesus is telling him that he must pay the damage he has done to the one who has complained against him, because he is in the wrong, and he must not ignore it and say I have faith that God will protect me, 

Jesus was rebuking him to count on his faith, as to avoid making things right, when there is a claim against him in the court.

And when they execute the warrant and bring him before the Judge, his exuse will not be counted as a defence, and the Justice will find him guilty.

Sometimes the exuse can go some way to reduce the sentence, but some times may have the opposite effect. 

If there were, no claim against him, what would Jesus say? 

Perhaps teach him how to think and act deferent in the future, spare him the road.  

Maybe the complainant had been enrich by cheating other people.

Never the less he had file a complain against the gift giver.

It is better to be fair to one another, that pleases God more,

Than to give gifts to him, and be unfair to one another.  

 

That is really food for thought now to go all the way back to Mathew 5:21, because after that, 5:23 says, ''Therefore' if you are presenting your offering at the alter...', as if those two are tied in together.   

[Your closest friendnt]

1 hour ago, Pamelasv said:

That is really food for thought now to go all the way back to Mathew 5:21, because after that, 5:23 says, ''Therefore' if you are presenting your offering at the alter...', as if those two are tied in together.   

Mathew 21: talks about commiting murder, and been liable to judgment.

Then in 22: he mentions three diferent situations;

a) anyone who is angry at his brother will be liable to judgement,

b) who ever insults his brother will be liable to council, and

c) and who ever says "you fool" will be liable to the hell of fire. 

The culture of that time and our culture today in democratic countries is deferent. 

Jesus did not give specific examples about a), b, and c, so we must be on a journey to find out what scenarios could be applicable that time, and to what scenarios could be applicable today. "good luck", but we can always tried.  This is an open field and everyone applies ones own according to his needs who are subject to change all the time. 

Note that when Jesus said, to the hell of fire, or to the fire of hell, I don't think he had the actual hell in his mind, this words " fire of hell" or similar are use to show a state of remorse, realizing that one is not in the right as previously thought and has pass judgement, and later come to realize that  he was not in the right and has done injustice to someone else. 

It is that state of been when some  one realizes too late or after the fact that he was not right as previously thought but he is in the wrong and he was wrong to do what he did when he wrongly believe he was in the right. 

An example would be, when Peter explain to the crowd that they were wrong to perceived that Jesus was not from God and shouted crussifie him. 

Then when they realize that they had crussified the elect of God they were cut to their harts. 

This also apllies that many times people think that they are in the right and later realize that they were not. Or sometimes they think that they are in the wrong, when actually are in the right, 

(then the feeling of joy or happiness take them over, "like they are in paradise" ) 

and they can not see it, that's why we have  Lawyers who are able to see for them, or are able to manipulate for them. Take some, leave some, but at least I try to respond.  

Is it because many were angry at him, and saying many things that were not true about him, wrongly accusing him of many things, that's why Jesus was telling them these stories?

[Leonardo Von]

On 12/12/2015 at 11:22 AM, Pamelasv said:

'Make friends quickly with your opponent at law while you are with him on the way, so that your opponent may not hand you over to the judge, and the judge to the officer, and you be thrown into prison. "Truly I say to you, you will not come out of there until you have paid up the last cent.' 

Does this apply in anyway to our modern day lives, unless of course you are guilty?  But why would Jesus be giving this advice in the first place to those who would be listening to him who want to practice righteousness? 

It sounds like in these verses that one is automatically guilty without a fair trial, back then. 

So does this apply in anyway to today? At least in a country with fair laws.  Perhaps in some other places where law enforcement take bribes left and right.  I know there are some.  I think in the African continent of (N......my mind is at a blank. It is where all those fake emails and phone calls come from where they want to scam you).  

Dear sister Pamelasv,

 

Grace and mercy and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

 

·        “Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven. Ye have heard that it was said of them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment: but I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire. Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath ought against thee; leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift. Agree with thine adversary quickly, whiles thou art in the way with him; lest at any time the adversary deliver thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and thou be cast into prison. Verily I say unto thee, Thou shalt by no means come out thence, till thou hast paid the uttermost farthing.” (Matthew 5.17-26).

 

With regard to your question, Pamelasv, we must analyze the whole context in order to understand what is being said. Then I paste the whole excerpt. Notice that Jesus is talking about obedience to the law.

What this passage is saying is that the legal justice of the Kingdom of the Eternal is much stricter of what individuals thought (and to this day still think).

Notice how the Eternal is tremendously rigorous in our dealing with those He has made in His image and likeness. Just as no father is content to see his son being affronted, threatened, or abused, much less the Eternal, who has a deep zeal for his (Deuteronomy 32:9,10; Malachi 3.17), will be passive in the face of such injustice.

Note that the five types of basic attitudes toward others, which our society often considers to be normal (enmity, prostitution, adultery, swearing, revenge), are treated with extreme force against those who practice such things.

That is, what the Eternal is trying to say is that we should never try to relate to people in a merely professional (formal) way, because considering the value that any human being has in His eyes, the slightest error of ours in dealing with someone may cost very expensive.

Think: if you had talked to the son of the supreme ruler of a nation (be that as president of the republic, king, etc.), you would have the courage to utter a "simple" insult to him (e.g. call him useless, idiot or rebellious)? Do you agree that a single word would be sufficient reason for you to be thrown into prison?

Well, considering that this is a small cause (an offense is not as serious a crime as killing before the law), it is not necessary a whole court to try this case. It is enough the adversary to be someone of character and integrity so that the judge considers his testimony as truth and ends it in prison.

As the name of such a person is very valuable in the eyes of the Eternal (Proverbs 22: 1, Ecclesiastes 7: 1) and the offended brother resists more than a fortress (Proverbs 18:19), such an individual will delay paying the debt (if he can afford to pay, since repentance and conversion are not so easy to be assimilated by the transgressor - 2 Timothy 2: 25-26).

In short: there is no formal judgment because, in the face of human justice, this is considered a small cause. However, as to the Eternal a life is invaluable (Luke 15: 7), an insult can mean the going of the individual to hell, or at least, the loss of the blessing as it did with Moses:

 

·        “Because they provoked his spirit, so that he spake unadvisedly with his lips.” (Psalms 106.33).

 

May Jesus help us to solve each quarrel with our neighbor the faster the possible.