Biblical Calculations 1. (70 X 7)

[Kan]

2 hours ago, Sister said:

Hi Kan

Yes, the 7 weeks are stated just before the 62 weeks, which is why we keep adding them up together.  God did not lay it out easy for us, and already knew this would be the "stumbling block" amongst us who prefer to use man's or our own wisdom instead of hearing what the spirit says.  God is very very tricky, he tricked me even.  I love how he does that... then when he finally reveals, our egos get deflated.

Here is that verse;

 Daniel 9:25   Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

Notice he said that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and build Jerusalem?  So from when the angel gave the command,... to restore (rebuild) the temple, this part would take only 7 weeks (looking back now, this happened, we know that, what year exactly we don't know, who cares, it happened, the temple was rebuilt)...now....pause.....it continues "AND 62 weeks: The street shall be built again, and the wall even in troublous times"....simple, this happened all within that 62 week period, just like the 7 weeks happened within that same period.  The wall was built, the temple built, Jerusalem inhabited again,.. all done by the time Christ got there and was crucified.

Here's the icing on the cake;

Daniel 9:26   And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

There's that 62 weeks again!  Now it's clear.  The Messiah was cut off to Israel at his death and resurrection....but God is still merciful, he still gives them time to think about what they did and repent as new witness testimonials from the apostles, disciples, and all peoples whom Jesus showed himself to gave their witness accounts that he performed all he did and was back from the dead, alive again and was indeed truly the Son of God. 

All those who believed and who confessed Christ were hunted down, persecuted, and had to flee Jerusalem, whilst the rest who refused to believe still stayed and received a terrible ending of their city Jerusalem and destruction of their temple by the Romans.  This happened 8 weeks after the Messiah was cut off. This is the "time up" phase, the end of the 70 week prophecy.  God showed them he would not fight this battle for them and that they were on their own, as he already planned and explained to Daniel.

God is simply saying, your first temple was destroyed, you had no temple for around 490 yrs, because I took it off you, then I allowed you to have your temple rebuilt, .. then I sent my Son to preach in your temple and your city so that you could hear my Word, that I desire mercy and not sacrifice to wipe your sins clean, to establish righteousness, make an end of those animal sacrifices and old laws that cannot take away sin, and because you refused my Son, you refused me, so I am going to take the temple off you again because your worship is in vain and you're not listening STILL. 

This would all happen in 70 weeks from the Command given to Daniel.  End of prophecy.  After this desolations are determined to the end, until the "consumation" (the Coming, and crowning of our Lord Jesus before the whole earth where every knee will bow)  and desolations for Israel and the rest of the unbelieving world.  This desolation, this spiritual darkness, this emptiness will end with a war again, a bigger war where Christ will fight against all the ungodly and put an end to this madness.

The whole prophecy is not about us trying to show off our own wisdom about how good we are at calculating years, and getting dates right, spending endless amounts of time researching to prove the exact number of years etc with dates , arguing back and forth, but about looking back and knowing that this prophecy happened and is fulfilled as explained to Daniel, ....and when we understand this, we won't be making any comments about Daniel's 70th week into the future, and joining in with a confusing new doctrine, but staying away from it.

That's all I have to say really.

 

Yes, that's what I think, there is no scriptural basis to separate the 70th week from the rest and project it into the future, without any dates to anchor it.

In regards to the end of the 70 weeks, and the destruction of Jerusalem, I thought according to other writings, like that of Josephus Flavius, that it happened about 38 years after Jesus died, in 31 AD. 

Remember these times are in direct relation, as an explanation to the vision of chapter 8, the 2300 years.

Four time lines tie in the beginning of the 2300 years and another three time lines tie in the other end of the 2300 years. There are at least 5 dates in history which need to be married with these charts, some tie in with the NT others with the old. And the other dates can be confirmed by history from Christ on wards. Here is a quick overview of those dates.

457 BC the work going ahead with the building according to the decree made by Cyrus and put into action by Artaxerxes. (2300 years from 457 BC to 1844 AD).

408 BC the walls are completed (62 weeks of years to the Messiah)

27 AD the Messiah begins His ministry by John the baptist's prophesying. (27 AD to 34 AD is 1 week of years)

31 AD Jesus is slain in the middle of that last 7 years or week of years.

34 AD the end of the 490 years (457 BC to 34 AD)

508 AD "the abomination that makes desolate is set up." Daniel 12:11 (1290 years from 508 AD to 1798 AD)

538 AD the beginning of the great tribulation of 1260 years. Daniel 7:25 and 12:7. (538 AD to 1798 AD is 1260 years) Revelation 12:6,14 11:3, 13:5.

1798 AD the end of Papal supremacy (the abomination) and the start of "the time of the end" of the 2300 years drawing to a close. Daniel 11:35 & 40, 12:4.

1843 AD the last year of the 2300 years. Daniel 12:12. (1335 years from the set up of the abomination to the end of the 2300 years.) The beginning of the last phase of Christ's work as High Priest. Daniel 7:10 & 13. Daniel 8:13,14. Rev 10:6,7. 11:19.

[Sister]

3 hours ago, Kan said:

Yes, that's what I think, there is no scriptural basis to separate the 70th week from the rest and project it into the future, without any dates to anchor it.

Hi Kan

Agreed!

 

Quote

 

In regards to the end of the 70 weeks, and the destruction of Jerusalem, I thought according to other writings, like that of Josephus Flavius, that it happened about 38 years after Jesus died, in 31 AD. 

 

It may of happened then, but one thing I have learnt today is that a lot of information the world keep feeding to us as "facts" or "historical accounts" have been tampered with, because the God of this world, Satan has an agenda to deceive by providing also a lot of disinformation, so who knows? 

 

Quote

 

Remember these times are in direct relation, as an explanation to the vision of chapter 8, the 2300 years.

Four time lines tie in the beginning of the 2300 years and another three time lines tie in the other end of the 2300 years. There are at least 5 dates in history which need to be married with these charts, some tie in with the NT others with the old. And the other dates can be confirmed by history from Christ on wards. Here is a quick overview of those dates.

457 BC the work going ahead with the building according to the decree made by Cyrus and put into action by Artaxerxes. (2300 years from 457 BC to 1844 AD).

408 BC the walls are completed (62 weeks of years to the Messiah)

27 AD the Messiah begins His ministry by John the baptist's prophesying. (27 AD to 34 AD is 1 week of years)

31 AD Jesus is slain in the middle of that last 7 years or week of years.

34 AD the end of the 490 years (457 BC to 34 AD)

508 AD "the abomination that makes desolate is set up." Daniel 12:11 (1290 years from 508 AD to 1798 AD)

538 AD the beginning of the great tribulation of 1260 years. Daniel 7:25 and 12:7. (538 AD to 1798 AD is 1260 years) Revelation 12:6,14 11:3, 13:5.

1798 AD the end of Papal supremacy (the abomination) and the start of "the time of the end" of the 2300 years drawing to a close. Daniel 11:35 & 40, 12:4.

1843 AD the last year of the 2300 years. Daniel 12:12. (1335 years from the set up of the abomination to the end of the 2300 years.) The beginning of the last phase of Christ's work as High Priest. Daniel 7:10 & 13. Daniel 8:13,14. Rev 10:6,7. 11:19.

 

 

 

 

They've gone way out there.  For starters in Dan 8 it mentions 2300 days, not years, and it concerns the end times.  Those dates are a blurr to me, sorry but as soon as I read this, it told me something was wrong;

Quote

508 AD "the abomination that makes desolate is set up." Daniel 12:11 (1290 years from 508 AD to 1798 AD)

Can we please go over this again Kan?

Daniel 8:8   Therefore the he goat waxed very great: and when he was strong, the great horn was broken; and for it came up four notable ones toward the four winds of heaven. (Alexander the Great's kingdom broken up)

 Daniel 8:9   And out of one of them came forth a little horn, which waxed exceeding great, toward the south, and toward the east, and toward the pleasant land. (This is jumping to the end times. Discern. There is only one little horn, and this is the false prophet)

 Daniel 8:10   And it waxed great, even to the host of heaven; and it cast down some of the host and of the stars to the ground, and stamped upon them. (This little horn comes up small, and his power grows.  He rises to power.  That's why he starts off as a "little" horn.)

 Daniel 8:11   Yea, he magnified himself even to the prince of the host, and by him the daily sacrifice was taken away, and the place of his sanctuary was cast down. (The false prophet)

 Daniel 8:12   And an host was given him against the daily sacrifice by reason of transgression, and it cast down the truth to the ground; and it practised, and prospered. (I've thought about this "daily sacrifice" for so long.  We all know the difference between right and wrong to a degree because God has given us all a conscience.  Even if one is not a christian, he still knows the basic wrongs, he might not give up a wrong for God, but he does it anyway, because of his conscience.....well this is the daily sacrifice, when we say no to stealing, no to lying, no to adultery etc, ....this will all be taken away from the hearts of men, and because evil has flourished, man will no longer have that conscience regarding the most basic laws.  More evil times ahead)

 Daniel 8:13   Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake, How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot?

 Daniel 8:14   And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.
 

I need to explain this first.  The "trangression of desolation" is the "abomination of desolation". Same thing.  This is that temple that the false prophet will have built for himself to sit in and reign from, in Jerusalem.  That temple will not be built overnight, but will take a few years to build.  When the building is finally finished near the end of the tribulation, he will sit in there and declare himself God.  God will let him get this far, and to break his bubble, the end will come quickly.  This is right before the coming, but first the final war that will be cut short.

so Daniel heard in the vision how long until the daily sacrifice is taken away until the abomination of desolation?  The answer was 2300 DAYS.  Not years.

Now keep in mind that the false prophet comes up shortly after the 10 kings.  The 10 kings are working closely with him, grooming him for his arrival.  He's here already, just not showing his face yet.  It's the 10 kings (acting as kings) who are setting the stage for his arrival and are given all power because the dragon gives them this power.  These two beasts go together, they are of the same kingdom working together to deceive.  One designs the problems, then the solution with new laws, and the other will enforce the new laws through his smooth words, miracles and fame.  At the start of the 2300 days, these 10 kings are given the "go ahead".  It's already happened.  We are already living in their corporate world where they control everything and shape our opinions through the media etc.  They have also shaped our laws and turned everything into madness, not order.  It's already started and we are so blind to it waiting for them to come, but the 10 kings are already here ruling, and their man, the false prophet is with them kept hidden for now.

The false prophet is given only 3 1/2 years to rule.  That's 1290 days.  So when the false prophet starts his 3 1/2 yr reign, only then can we tell exactly when the 2300 days started, ....count back 1010 days before that. I think we will find that's when the 10 kings were given their power from the dragon, to start the wheels in motion.

The sanctuary is cleansed at the Coming.  So basically in a nutshell, the 2,300 days is the total time this end time beast is given full power from the dragon, and the "go ahead" permission from God to the "abomination of desolation" just before the coming.

That's the way I understand it for now, my reasoning might need some fine tuning.  There are a few bits not clear to me 100%.

 

[Kan]

18 hours ago, Sister said:

Hi Kan

Agreed!

 

It may of happened then, but one thing I have learnt today is that a lot of information the world keep feeding to us as "facts" or "historical accounts" have been tampered with, because the God of this world, Satan has an agenda to deceive by providing also a lot of disinformation, so who knows? 

 

They've gone way out there.  For starters in Dan 8 it mentions 2300 days, not years, and it concerns the end times.  Those dates are a blurr to me, sorry but as soon as I read this, it told me something was wrong;

Can we please go over this again Kan?

Daniel 8:8   Therefore the he goat waxed very great: and when he was strong, the great horn was broken; and for it came up four notable ones toward the four winds of heaven. (Alexander the Great's kingdom broken up)

 Daniel 8:9   And out of one of them came forth a little horn, which waxed exceeding great, toward the south, and toward the east, and toward the pleasant land. (This is jumping to the end times. Discern. There is only one little horn, and this is the false prophet)

 Daniel 8:10   And it waxed great, even to the host of heaven; and it cast down some of the host and of the stars to the ground, and stamped upon them. (This little horn comes up small, and his power grows.  He rises to power.  That's why he starts off as a "little" horn.)

 Daniel 8:11   Yea, he magnified himself even to the prince of the host, and by him the daily sacrifice was taken away, and the place of his sanctuary was cast down. (The false prophet)

 Daniel 8:12   And an host was given him against the daily sacrifice by reason of transgression, and it cast down the truth to the ground; and it practised, and prospered. (I've thought about this "daily sacrifice" for so long.  We all know the difference between right and wrong to a degree because God has given us all a conscience.  Even if one is not a christian, he still knows the basic wrongs, he might not give up a wrong for God, but he does it anyway, because of his conscience.....well this is the daily sacrifice, when we say no to stealing, no to lying, no to adultery etc, ....this will all be taken away from the hearts of men, and because evil has flourished, man will no longer have that conscience regarding the most basic laws.  More evil times ahead)

 Daniel 8:13   Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake, How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot?

 Daniel 8:14   And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.
 

I need to explain this first.  The "trangression of desolation" is the "abomination of desolation". Same thing.  This is that temple that the false prophet will have built for himself to sit in and reign from, in Jerusalem.  That temple will not be built overnight, but will take a few years to build.  When the building is finally finished near the end of the tribulation, he will sit in there and declare himself God.  God will let him get this far, and to break his bubble, the end will come quickly.  This is right before the coming, but first the final war that will be cut short.

so Daniel heard in the vision how long until the daily sacrifice is taken away until the abomination of desolation?  The answer was 2300 DAYS.  Not years.

Now keep in mind that the false prophet comes up shortly after the 10 kings.  The 10 kings are working closely with him, grooming him for his arrival.  He's here already, just not showing his face yet.  It's the 10 kings (acting as kings) who are setting the stage for his arrival and are given all power because the dragon gives them this power.  These two beasts go together, they are of the same kingdom working together to deceive.  One designs the problems, then the solution with new laws, and the other will enforce the new laws through his smooth words, miracles and fame.  At the start of the 2300 days, these 10 kings are given the "go ahead".  It's already happened.  We are already living in their corporate world where they control everything and shape our opinions through the media etc.  They have also shaped our laws and turned everything into madness, not order.  It's already started and we are so blind to it waiting for them to come, but the 10 kings are already here ruling, and their man, the false prophet is with them kept hidden for now.

The false prophet is given only 3 1/2 years to rule.  That's 1290 days.  So when the false prophet starts his 3 1/2 yr reign, only then can we tell exactly when the 2300 days started, ....count back 1010 days before that. I think we will find that's when the 10 kings were given their power from the dragon, to start the wheels in motion.

The sanctuary is cleansed at the Coming.  So basically in a nutshell, the 2,300 days is the total time this end time beast is given full power from the dragon, and the "go ahead" permission from God to the "abomination of desolation" just before the coming.

That's the way I understand it for now, my reasoning might need some fine tuning.  There are a few bits not clear to me 100%.

 

The question of the 2300 days (which are prophetic years, just like every other dream time in Daniel), is about the vision and not specifically the desolation.

"...How long shall be the vision concerning ..." It does not say how long shall the abomination be, although that goes hand in hand with the subject. However the angels are asking about the cause of Christ, the Lamb of God symbolized in the "daily sacrifice." How long will the Son be misrepresented on earth, how long will this go on?

The abomination of desolation had a political reign over the earth - 1260 years, or 1290 years counting the set up of it.

You probably already know that the same question is repeated in Daniel 12:6,7 and the answer here is not 2300, but 1260 or 3.5 years. BTW this text related to Rev 10:6.

Then at the close of the book, the angel gives another two time lines which lock in the end of the 2300 days/years. The 1290 and 1335 years.

The vision is about the cause of the sanctuary being trodden underfoot. That had already happened prior to Daniel, that is why Israel ended up in captivity. But there was a time prophesied when this would no longer go on, and there would be a conclusion to the purposes of God with humanity.

But before that time would come, the abomination that makes desolate will have a final go at ridding the world of Christ, which it was pretty successful at, over the great tribulation of 1260 years.

It sought to wipe out true Christianity by replacing it with idol worship, a false priesthood (spies) and death, all in the name of God.

The little horn that comes out of one of Greece's provinces is Rome.