The beast that goes into Perdition

[thereselittleflower]

5 hours ago, Sister said:

therese

This reply function is doing funny things, I can't get your quote, but instead get 5 of them, anyway;
 

Do I believe the physical world is evil?

In what sense?  Are you asking if day to day living, like eating, sleeping, wearing clothes, talking, working is evil then I say No.

but if you are implying about the system on which the world operates where the rich oppress the poor, the innocent are jailed, politicians, judges, police, preachers are bribed, Christ is mocked, nations sold to corporations, laws made to protect the wicked, and the truth stamped on, then I say YES. 

The system of this world we live in today is run by the god of this world Satan.  It is not a reflection of God's character the way men behave, but in total opposition.  The physical world has been corrupted.  Even the stars are corrupted, men have worshiped them, the moon, the sun also, our waters and food are polluted, the air is not clean and heaven is blasphemed, then yes, everything God has given us in our world for our survival and to enjoy has been contaminated by men. 

The human body is "flesh".  Flesh gets sick, it experiences pain, it enjoys all lusts, and it eventually dies.  Even after death it rots.  You cannot call "flesh" evil, because God made us this way, and he called everything he made "good".  What is evil is what is inside man's heart.  This is what God wants to change.  If we can stop the heart from sinning, we can control the flesh to not carry out it's desires.  Unfortunately, this cannot be done 100% therefore we need a mediator to atone for our sins.  But this is not a licence to sin, for God cannot be fooled.  Sins that remain un-repented bear no fruits.  There are sins that do not lead to death and sins that do.  He who does not love his brother is an example of a sin that leads to a spiritual death.

And saying all that, the flesh is designed to corrupt, meaning it ages, it gets old and weak, it dies and it rots.  A spiritual body resurrected cannot do this, it is far superior.

 Quote is doing weird things for me too.

 

I meant the physical, material world.  The physical substance of the world.

I meant the physical body.

If the body is not evil, then why do you have a problem with Christ's body now being the SAME body he had on earth, but now glorified, and that he has it permanently - ie it's not something that comes and goes, or appears and disappears?

God the Son became fully human.   To be human means to have a human body and soul.   

Christ is our High Priest because he became one of us and being one of us, he overcame sin and death.  To be our High Priest he must be one of us, human, body and soul right now.   Christ cannot be our High Priest, ever living to make intercession for us, unless he is fully human now, and he cannot be fully human now unless he is one permanently, which means having a human body and soul permanently without interruption.   A human body and soul is not something that he puts on and off.  It is who he is.   Divinity joined with humanity body and and soul, in one Person, humanity joined to the Godhead for all eternity future in the Person of Jesus, God the Son made flesh, the God-man.

 

 

[thereselittleflower]

2 hours ago, n2thelight said:

Theresa

What kind of body did Christ have before He was born of woman?

That question is called a false dilemma.   It offers a false choice of answers and leaves out other possible answers.

It is a circular argument phrased as a question - it implicitly requires some assumptions are true, the very assumptions that are in dispute.   One does not use the claim one is trying to prove as the proof for itself.

The assumptions are these:

• 1) it is an assumption Christ existed before the Incarnation.  That is a false assumption.   God the Son existed before the incarnation.  Christ is the result of the incarnation.

  2) it is an assumption that God the Son had a body before the Incarnation.   There is no proof God the Son had a body before the Incarnation.

 

 

[n2thelight]

15 minutes ago, thereselittleflower said:

That question is called a false dilemma.   It offers a false choice of answers and leaves out other possible answers.

It is a circular argument phrased as a question - it implicitly requires some assumptions are true, the very assumptions that are in dispute.   One does not use the claim one is trying to prove as the proof for itself.

The assumptions are these:

• 1) it is an assumption Christ existed before the Incarnation.  That is a false assumption.   God the Son existed before the incarnation.  Christ is the result of the incarnation.

  2) it is an assumption that God the Son had a body before the Incarnation.   There is no proof God the Son had a body before the Incarnation.

 

 

Genesis 1:26 "And God said, "Let Us make man in Our image, after Our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth."

[thereselittleflower]

17 minutes ago, n2thelight said:

Genesis 1:26 "And God said, "Let Us make man in Our image, after Our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth."

 

And HOW was man made in God's image?

 

 

 

[n2thelight]

4 minutes ago, thereselittleflower said:

 

And HOW was man made in God's image?

 

 

 

Look in the mirror

[thereselittleflower]

18 minutes ago, n2thelight said:

Look in the mirror

No n2thelight.

That is your claim.

The mirror is not your proof.

 

You must prove that what I see in the mirror is what "in our image" means.

 

To the contrary, christianity has always taught this image was not the outward appearance, but the inner.

Pulpit Commentary

• As to what in man constituted the imago Dei, the reformed theologians commonly held it to have consisted 
  
  (1) in the spirituality of his being, as an intelligent and free agent; 
  
  (2) in the moral integrity and holiness of his nature; and 
  
  (3) in his dominion over the creatures (cf. West. Conf., Genesis 4:2). 
  
  In this connection the profound thought of Maimonides, elaborated by Tayler Lewis(vial. Lunge, in loco), should not be overlooked, that tselem is the specific, as opposed to the architectural, form of a thing; that which inwardly makes a thing what it is, as opposed to that external configuration which it actually possesses.

 

Benson Commentary

• In our image, after our likeness — Two words signifying the same thing. Here again we see the excellence of man above all other creatures of this world, none of which are said to be made after the image or likeness of God. Indeed, his pre-eminence above the brute creatures, and his high destination, are apparent in the very form of his body, the erect figure of which, set toward the heavens, points him to his origin and end. It is, however, in the soul of man, that we must look for the divine image. And here we easily discern it. Like God, man’s soul is a spirit,immaterial, invisible, active, intelligent, free, immortal, and, when first created, endowed with a high degree of divine knowledge, and with holiness and righteousness; in which particulars, according to St. Paul, Ephesians 4:24, Colossians 3:10, the image of God in man chiefly consists. 

 

Jamieson-Fausset-Brown Bible Commentary

• In our image, after our likeness—This was a peculiar distinction, the value attached to which appears in the words being twice mentioned. And in what did this image of God consist? Not in the erect form or features of man, not in his intellect, for the devil and his angels are, in this respect, far superior; not in his immortality, for he has not, like God, a past as well as a future eternity of being; but in the moral dispositions of his soul, commonly called original righteousness (Ec 7:29).

 

Geneva Study Bible

• This image and likeness of God in man is expounded in Eph 4:24 where it is written that man was created after God in righteousness and true holiness meaning by these two words, all perfection, as wisdom, truth, innocency, power, etc.

 

Keil and Delitzsch Biblical Commentary on the Old Testament

• The image of God consists, therefore, in the spiritual personality of man, though not merely in unity of self-consciousness and self-determination, or in the fact that man was created a consciously free Ego; for personality is merely the basis and form of the divine likeness, not its real essence. This consists rather in the fact, that the man endowed with free self-conscious personality possesses, in his spiritual as well as corporeal nature, a creaturely copy of the holiness and blessedness of the divine life. This concrete essence of the divine likeness was shattered by sin; and it is only through Christ, the brightness of the glory of God and the expression of His essence (Hebrews 1:3), that our nature is transformed into the image of God again (Colossians 3:10; Ephesians 4:24).

 

 

 

 

 

 

[n2thelight]

You forgot likeness

[thereselittleflower]

Just now, n2thelight said:

You forgot likeness

lol  No I didn't.

 

Read the quotes I provided. They deal with it.     

 

 

[n2thelight]

Lexicon :: Strong's H6754 - tselem

צֶלֶם

Transliteration tselem	Pronunciation tseh'·lem (Key)
Part of Speech masculine noun	Root Word (Etymology) From an unused root meaning to shade
Dictionary Aids TWOT Reference: 1923a
KJV Translation Count — Total: 17x The KJV translates Strongs H6754 in the following manner: image (16x), vain shew (1x).
Outline of Biblical Usage [?] image images (of tumours, mice, heathen gods) image, likeness (of resemblance) mere, empty, image, semblance (fig.)
Strong’s Definitions [?](Strong’s Definitions Legend) צֶלֶם tselem, tseh'-lem; from an unused root meaning to shade; a phantom, i.e. (figuratively) illusion, resemblance; hence, a representative figure, especially an idol:—image, vain shew.
Gesenius' Hebrew-Chaldee Lexicon     Lexicon :: Strong's H1823 - dĕmuwth דְּמוּת Transliteration dĕmuwth Pronunciation dem·üth' (Key) Part of Speech adverb, feminine noun Root Word (Etymology) From דָּמָה (H1819) Dictionary Aids TWOT Reference: 437a KJV Translation Count — Total: 25x The KJV translates Strongs H1823 in the following manner: likeness (19x), similitude (2x), like (2x), manner (1x), fashion (1x). Outline of Biblical Usage [?] n f likeness, similitude adv in the likeness of, like as Strong’s Definitions [?](Strong’s Definitions Legend) דְּמוּת dᵉmûwth, dem-ooth'; from H1819; resemblance; concretely, model, shape; adverbially, like:—fashion, like (-ness, as), manner, similitude. Gesenius' Hebrew-Chaldee Lexicon

 

[Sister]

Quote

20 hours ago, other one said:

18 hours ago, Sister said:

2 hours ago, thereselittleflower said:

 Quote is doing weird things for me too.

 

I meant the physical, material world.  The physical substance of the world.

I meant the physical body.

If the body is not evil, then why do you have a problem with Christ's body now being the SAME body he had on earth, but now glorified, and that he has it permanently - ie it's not something that comes and goes, or appears and disappears?

God the Son became fully human.   To be human means to have a human body and soul.   

Christ is our High Priest because he became one of us and being one of us, he overcame sin and death.  To be our High Priest he must be one of us, human, body and soul right now.   Christ cannot be our High Priest, ever living to make intercession for us, unless he is fully human now, and he cannot be fully human now unless he is one permanently, which means having a human body and soul permanently without interruption.   A human body and soul is not something that he puts on and off.  It is who he is.   Divinity joined with humanity body and and soul, in one Person, humanity joined to the Godhead for all eternity future in the Person of Jesus, God the Son made flesh, the God-man.

 

 

therese

Hang on a second, didn't you say this earlier;

 

So Jesus cannot do the same?  He cannot change himself into flesh so that they can recognise that it is him?  I believe he really did change into flesh so that they could see him, but that wasn't his true form, just like the angels did.

 

 

 

 

2 hours ago, thereselittleflower said:

 Quote is doing weird things for me too.

 

I meant the physical, material world.  The physical substance of the world.

I meant the physical body.

If the body is not evil, then why do you have a problem with Christ's body now being the SAME body he had on earth, but now glorified, and that he has it permanently - ie it's not something that comes and goes, or appears and disappears?G

 

Hi therese

I already explained why the physical body is not evil just by itself, because it's the heart that controls it.  The desires of the heart tell the body what to do whether they be good or evil.

Christ did no evil in his flesh.   He showed us that he could keep all of Gods commandments in the flesh.  He is our example on how to have self control.

The only thing I have a problem is providing scripture, and it is discounted.

Now does it say that we will be raised in a "flesh body" or a "spirit body"?

We can argue till the cows come home, but what does scripture say?

 

 

Quote

 

God the Son became fully human.   To be human means to have a human body and soul.   

Christ is our High Priest because he became one of us and being one of us, he overcame sin and death.  To be our High Priest he must be one of us, human, body and soul right now

 

How does that work out when even the angels are spirit?  Christ is Lord over them.  He made them.

 Hebrews 1:7   And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire

 Hebrews 1:13   But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?

Hebrews 1:14   Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?

 

We don't worship a Lord that is human still, but one far above that.  Christ is different from Mohamad, Bhoda, Krishna etc.

 

John 4:24   God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

If Jesus is the express image of God then he is . . . . . .?

(a) Flesh

(b) Spirit

10 points for the right answer!

 

 

Quote

.   Christ cannot be our High Priest, ever living to make intercession for us, unless he is fully human now, and he cannot be fully human now unless he is one permanently, which means having a human body and soul permanently without interruption.   A human body and soul is not something that he puts on and off.  It is who he is.

Didn't you say the angels could do it?  But you say Christ cannot?