IOWA CAUCUS - very divided

[MorningGlory]

1 hour ago, Vendtre said:

Dirty tricks are built into the rules of politics, it is part of the "fair play"'of politics.  It is like calling someone a liar for making up a story when playing Balderdash. 

The Cruz camp did nothing illegal, immoral or even all that dirty.

A BELIEVER doesn't condone dishonesty.  Makes me wonder about the real man behind the Cruz mask too. 

[Vendtre]

23 minutes ago, MorningGlory said:

A BELIEVER doesn't condone dishonesty.  Makes me wonder about the real man behind the Cruz mask too. 

They did nothing dishonest.  If Carson either had the prior planning to bring enough clothing or to hire someone that can make a proper press release this would not have happened. 

A BELIEVER does not condone stealing yet the stolen base in baseball is still an art form I love to watch in action. 

[Guest Butero]

7 hours ago, ricky said:

I can't vote because I am a legal permanent resident, and not yet a citizen, but Rubio would be my candidate of choice, a sensible fiscal conservative, but with strong social conservative credentials. His immigration stance might be difficult for some (though I immigrated legally I can see a lot of problems with the system and I agree that some reform of the system is needed) , and his work rate in the senate is worrisome, but I think he is the most well rounded choice. 

If it was not for his immigration position, he would likely have been my choice for President.  What he did in trying to pass that horrible reform bill turned me against him, and I am 100 percent behind Ted Cruz.  That doesn't mean I wouldn't vote for Rubio if he was the GOP nominee, but we have a serious problem with illegal immigration, and I don't trust him to handle things correctly.  I am opposed to rewarding criminals with a pathway to citizenship ever.  I could compromise over giving them some kind of legal guest workers status, but I will never support them gaining U.S. citizenship.  Rubio lost a lot of support over that one issue. 

I am extremely happy over Ted Cruz coming out on top in Iowa, and I hope this will lead to him pulling more upsets as the primaries get into full swing.  I still have reservations about Donald Trump.  I do not trust him.  Of course I would support him over Clinton or Sanders, but I have no idea what he would do if elected.  I do trust that Ted Cruz is the true conservative in the race.  After Cruz, I would vote for Rand Paul, though I doubt he has much of a chance of winning at this point. 

[thereselittleflower]

3 minutes ago, Butero said:

If it was not for his immigration position, he would likely have been my choice for President.  What he did in trying to pass that horrible reform bill turned me against him, and I am 100 percent behind Ted Cruz.  That doesn't mean I wouldn't vote for Rubio if he was the GOP nominee, but we have a serious problem with illegal immigration, and I don't trust him to handle things correctly.  I am opposed to rewarding criminals with a pathway to citizenship ever.  I could compromise over giving them some kind of legal guest workers status, but I will never support them gaining U.S. citizenship.  Rubio lost a lot of support over that one issue. 

I am extremely happy over Ted Cruz coming out on top in Iowa, and I hope this will lead to him pulling more upsets as the primaries get into full swing.  I still have reservations about Donald Trump.  I do not trust him.  Of course I would support him over Clinton or Sanders, but I have no idea what he would do if elected.  I do trust that Ted Cruz is the true conservative in the race.  After Cruz, I would vote for Rand Paul, though I doubt he has much of a chance of winning at this point. 

Haven't we not even passed GO with Cruz yet?

His place of birth disqualifies him for sitting as president.

If he is elected president, it means our constitution is worthless.

This whole thing with Trump's behavior and untrustworthiness, and Cruz's lack of constitutional right to sit as president is a disaster in the making.

 

 

 

[Guest Butero]

1 hour ago, MorningGlory said:

A BELIEVER doesn't condone dishonesty.  Makes me wonder about the real man behind the Cruz mask too. 

That is the problem I have with Trump.  I don't know who the real Donald Trump is.  He is all over the place with his opinions.  He comes across to me as the guy people are supporting out of fear.  They look at the state of the nation, and they see Trump as the man who will bring about radical changes.  That can be good or bad. 

[Guest Butero]

2 minutes ago, thereselittleflower said:

Haven't we not even passed GO with Cruz yet?

Is place of birth disqualifies him for sitting as president.

This whole thing with Trump's behavior and untrustworthiness, and Cruz's lack of constitutional right to sit as president is a disaster in the making.

 

 

 

The notion that Cruz is not qualified to be President is nonsense.  He is fully qualified, as his Mother was a U.S. citizen.  That makes him a natural born citizen.  To this day, I don't believe Obama is qualified.  That birth certificate he presented was clearly phony, yet he is finishing out his second term.  That whole unqualified thing is just a scare tactic. 

By the way, Hillary, the likely Democratic nominee, has broken the law by having top secret e-mails on her personal server.  Talk about a disaster in the making.  She could be facing a criminal indictment, so I am not that scared of any Republican facing her. 

[thereselittleflower]

3 minutes ago, Butero said:

The notion that Cruz is not qualified to be President is nonsense.  He is fully qualified, as his Mother was a U.S. citizen.  That makes him a natural born citizen.  To this day, I don't believe Obama is qualified.  That birth certificate he presented was clearly phony, yet he is finishing out his second term.  That whole unqualified thing is just a scare tactic. 

By the way, Hillary, the likely Democratic nominee, has broken the law by having top secret e-mails on her personal server.  Talk about a disaster in the making.  She could be facing a criminal indictment, so I am not that scared of any Republican facing her. 

Whether he is considered a natural born citizen has to do with the particular laws establishing this at the time of his birth.  They are not the same now as  they were then.   I agree with you about Obama -  I am convinced he has no constitutional right to sit as president.  He was born in Kenya and his mother did not meet the criteria at the time for his birth to be that of a natural born citizen.

The difference between Obama and Cruz is that Obama can produce a certificate of birth from Hawaii (which does not mean he was born there, but simply that his birth was registered there.  People could register their birth in Hawaii no matter where they were born).  So there were always questions.

Cruz, however, has produced his birth certificate from outside the US.

Did Cruz's parents meet the then current law for establishing a natural born citizen birth?

 

[Guest Butero]

3 minutes ago, thereselittleflower said:

Whether he is considered a natural born citizen has to do with the particular laws establishing this at the time of his birth.  They are not the same now as  they were then.   I agree with you about Obama -  I am convinced he has no constitutional right to sit as president.  He was born in Kenya and his mother did not meet the criteria at the time for his birth to be that of a natural born citizen.

The difference between Obama and Cruz is that Obama can produce a certificate of birth from Hawaii (which does not mean he was born there, but simply that his birth was registered there.  People could register their birth in Hawaii no matter where they were born).  So there were always questions.

Cruz, however, has produced his birth certificate from outside the US.

Did Cruz's parents meet the then current law for establishing a natural born citizen birth?

 

I don't believe anyone will be able to realistically disqualify Cruz from serving as President should he win.  There may be people that try, as they did with Obama, but they will fail.  Obama's birth certificate didn't even have the correct name of the hospital he was supposedly born at.  It has the correct name of the hospital as it exists today, but the name had been changed, and apparently, they didn't do the proper research before presenting the phony birth certificate.  I am convinced Obama was born in Kenya, and if he got away with what he did, I don't see Cruz being disqualified. 

I do think Cruz is a long shot to win.  The odds on favorite is still Trump, and Rubio is the dark horse.  I would say Rubio is the most electable, but Cruz is the most solid.  Trump has the money, and he is someone who will fight dirty.  He will get down in the mud with Clinton, as opposed to people like McCain and Romney.  If he wins, it will be because of the Clinton scandal and because he is able to do more to discredit Clinton than she is able to do to hurt him.  It will be the dirtiest campaign in American history. 

[thereselittleflower]

6 minutes ago, Butero said:

I don't believe anyone will be able to realistically disqualify Cruz from serving as President should he win.  There may be people that try, as they did with Obama, but they will fail.  Obama's birth certificate didn't even have the correct name of the hospital he was supposedly born at.  It has the correct name of the hospital as it exists today, but the name had been changed, and apparently, they didn't do the proper research before presenting the phony birth certificate.  I am convinced Obama was born in Kenya, and if he got away with what he did, I don't see Cruz being disqualified. 

I do think Cruz is a long shot to win.  The odds on favorite is still Trump, and Rubio is the dark horse.  I would say Rubio is the most electable, but Cruz is the most solid.  Trump has the money, and he is someone who will fight dirty.  He will get down in the mud with Clinton, as opposed to people like McCain and Romney.  If he wins, it will be because of the Clinton scandal and because he is able to do more to discredit Clinton than she is able to do to hurt him.  It will be the dirtiest campaign in American history. 

This is interesting

• “[The Cruz family] were living in Canada, working as Canadians, wanting to become Canadian citizens, registering with the Canadian government to be voters,” Wagner said.

  Wagner’s lawsuit, filed in federal court, has been assigned to 10th Circuit Justice Jill Parrish.

  The suit says in part:

  “Defendant is seeking a U.S. government employment position (President) that constitutionally requires a status of being “natural born” which requires either birth in the U.S.A. with intentions to reside in the U.S.A. by the parents if they are non-citizens, or birth outside the U.S.A. or its territory with both parents as U.S.A. citizens; or birth outside the U.S.A. or its territory with one parent a U.S.A. citizen and intentions to soon after birth reside in the U.S.A. and not having intentions to have residency or citizenship in a foreign (non-U.S.A.) country,” Wagner’s lawsuit states.

http://fox13now.com/2016/01/26/a-utah-man-is-suing-ted-cruz-claiming-hes-not-a-natural-born-citizen/

 

[Guest Butero]

1 minute ago, thereselittleflower said:

This is interesting

• “[The Cruz family] were living in Canada, working as Canadians, wanting to become Canadian citizens, registering with the Canadian government to be voters,” Wagner said.

  Wagner’s lawsuit, filed in federal court, has been assigned to 10th Circuit Justice Jill Parrish.

  The suit says in part:

  “Defendant is seeking a U.S. government employment position (President) that constitutionally requires a status of being “natural born” which requires either birth in the U.S.A. with intentions to reside in the U.S.A. by the parents if they are non-citizens, or birth outside the U.S.A. or its territory with both parents as U.S.A. citizens; or birth outside the U.S.A. or its territory with one parent a U.S.A. citizen and intentions to soon after birth reside in the U.S.A. and not having intentions to have residency or citizenship in a foreign (non-U.S.A.) country,” Wagner’s lawsuit states.

http://fox13now.com/2016/01/26/a-utah-man-is-suing-ted-cruz-claiming-hes-not-a-natural-born-citizen/

That definition is not found in the Constitution.  The Constitution doesn't define a natural born citizen in that manner.  It has been assumed that all it means is that one parent is a citizen or the child was born in the United States.  One of Ted Cruz's parents was an American citizen.  The Wagner lawsuit is bogus.