fulfilled feasts

[Reinitin]

wow, heavy topics. I think ya'll are bringing out some really good stuff. I thought the blood was to sanctify the temple because God dwells there, the sins of the people defile the temple.. 

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, Reinitin said:

wow, heavy topics. I think ya'll are bringing out some really good stuff. I thought the blood was to sanctify the temple because God dwells there, the sins of the people defile the temple.. 

Yep, that too. The temple and its ministry was central to Moses law. Yes, a heavy topic for sure. One that when I became aware of it became somewhat concerned.

[Qnts2]

8 hours ago, Joline said:

 

This what I meant when I said you had a rabbinic view. The feasts are all about the priesthood. they cannot be kept without it. As well as the fact they make atonement for sin. Rabbinic Judaism always diminishes the priesthood.

Another repeat from the other forum.

Not all feasts directly required the priesthood. In the Mosaic law, for some of feasts the people stayed at home. In the Mosaic law, there is no mention of synagogues. Synagogues did not come into existence until the Babylonian exhile. Since Jerusalem was too far to travel to weekly, most of Judaism is practiced in the homes. Jewish people who did not live near Jerusalem, only went to Jerusalem 3 times a year when the law commands going to Jerusalem.   

During the Babylonian exhile, we have the biblical example of Daniel, who we know kept the dietary law because he refused to eat much of the Kings food except for vegetables which means Daniel kept the food laws. We know that Daniel refused to bow to idols, which is again, part of the Mosaic law. So, Daniel was likely keeping the Mosaic law which was able to be kept without the Priesthood and the Temple.

Again, since the Romans destroyed the Temple, without the Temple, the Priesthood can not be active. Judaism is living in exhile and practicing an exhile form of the Mosaic law, minus the Priesthood. By tradition, on Passover, there are intentional symbols representing the destruction of the Temple, so the Jewish people would not forget we are without the Temple. The Rabbi's added the symbolism for the loss of the Temple.

In the Mosaic law, when the first born child is a boy, the parents were to pay the Priests a redemption price. That is still practiced today. A person of the Priests linage (Cohen) is paid an amount. The practice is called Pidyon Haben 

So much for Rabbinic Judaism minimizing the Temple and the Priesthood. 

[Reinitin]

28 minutes ago, Qnts2 said:

Another repeat from the other forum.

Not all feasts directly required the priesthood. In the Mosaic law, for some of feasts the people stayed at home. In the Mosaic law, there is no mention of synagogues. Synagogues did not come into existence until the Babylonian exhile. Since Jerusalem was too far to travel to weekly, most of Judaism is practiced in the homes. Jewish people who did not live near Jerusalem, only went to Jerusalem 3 times a year when the law commands going to Jerusalem.   

During the Babylonian exhile, we have the biblical example of Daniel, who we know kept the dietary law because he refused to eat much of the Kings food except for vegetables which means Daniel kept the food laws. We know that Daniel refused to bow to idols, which is again, part of the Mosaic law. So, Daniel was likely keeping the Mosaic law which was able to be kept without the Priesthood and the Temple.

Again, since the Romans destroyed the Temple, without the Temple, the Priesthood can not be active. Judaism is living in exhile and practicing an exhile form of the Mosaic law, minus the Priesthood. By tradition, on Passover, there are intentional symbols representing the destruction of the Temple, so the Jewish people would not forget we are without the Temple. The Rabbi's added the symbolism for the loss of the Temple.

In the Mosaic law, when the first born child is a boy, the parents were to pay the Priests a redemption price. That is still practiced today. A person of the Priests linage (Cohen) is paid an amount. The practice is called Pidyon Haben 

So much for Rabbinic Judaism minimizing the Temple and the Priesthood. 

The had lost the possibility for a king to sit on the throne of David too, no?

[Qnts2]

19 minutes ago, Reinitin said:

The had lost the possibility for a king to sit on the throne of David too, no?

Good point. Honestly, I never think about the lack of a King.

Some Jewish people know they are of the linage of Judah but very few know that they are of the linage of David. I don't believe any would know if they are of the linage of Jeconiah, who was told none of his linage would sit on the throne. While some in Israel are looking for a rebuilt Temple and Priesthood, I haven't heard of any discussion about re-instating a King.

[Reinitin]

9 hours ago, Joline said:

Yep, that too. The temple and its ministry was central to Moses law. Yes, a heavy topic for sure. One that when I became aware of it became somewhat concerned.

I would think that the Lord had to enter into the heavenly sanctuary first. Cleanse the heavenly temple first (mans sins had reached the heavens) As our High Priest the Lord can make intercession before God for our sins with His flesh and blood that was offered (once for all) and distributed outside the camp for the people.  We find the leaven (sin) in  our homes (our hearts) remove it.  Share the lamb with all those in our household, place the blood on the door posts (our heart) when the death angle passes over and the wrath and judgment of God is distributed to the rebellious generation and all mankind is judged. God will pass over the houses where the blood is applied over the door and Christ will lead us to the promised land. I guess you would need a book to explain each day of the feast  cause it goes all the way through and is being acted out before man as a witness before man what The Lord has done for us, what he is doing for us and what he will do for us when he returns and makes all things new and we receive our incorruptible flesh that is free from death.

[Guest]

4 hours ago, Qnts2 said:

Another repeat from the other forum.

Not all feasts directly required the priesthood. In the Mosaic law, for some of feasts the people stayed at home. In the Mosaic law, there is no mention of synagogues. Synagogues did not come into existence until the Babylonian exhile. Since Jerusalem was too far to travel to weekly, most of Judaism is practiced in the homes. Jewish people who did not live near Jerusalem, only went to Jerusalem 3 times a year when the law commands going to Jerusalem.   

During the Babylonian exhile, we have the biblical example of Daniel, who we know kept the dietary law because he refused to eat much of the Kings food except for vegetables which means Daniel kept the food laws. We know that Daniel refused to bow to idols, which is again, part of the Mosaic law. So, Daniel was likely keeping the Mosaic law which was able to be kept without the Priesthood and the Temple.

Again, since the Romans destroyed the Temple, without the Temple, the Priesthood can not be active. Judaism is living in exhile and practicing an exhile form of the Mosaic law, minus the Priesthood. By tradition, on Passover, there are intentional symbols representing the destruction of the Temple, so the Jewish people would not forget we are without the Temple. The Rabbi's added the symbolism for the loss of the Temple.

In the Mosaic law, when the first born child is a boy, the parents were to pay the Priests a redemption price. That is still practiced today. A person of the Priests linage (Cohen) is paid an amount. The practice is called Pidyon Haben 

So much for Rabbinic Judaism minimizing the Temple and the Priesthood. 

What do you mean in the Mosaic law, for some of the feasts people stayed at home? Where are you getting that people which stayed home were still keeping a feast?

20  When the LORD thy God shall enlarge thy border, as he hath promised thee, and thou shalt say, I will eat flesh, because thy soul longeth to eat flesh; thou mayest eat flesh, whatsoever thy soul lusteth after.
21  If the place which the LORD thy God hath chosen to put his name there be too far from thee, then thou shalt kill of thy herd and of thy flock, which the LORD hath given thee, as I have commanded thee, and thou shalt eat in thy gates whatsoever thy soul lusteth after.
22  Even as the roebuck and the hart is eaten, so thou shalt eat them: the unclean and the clean shall eat of them alike.
23  Only be sure that thou eat not the blood: for the blood is the life; and thou mayest not eat the life with the flesh.
24  Thou shalt not eat it; thou shalt pour it upon the earth as water.

25  Thou shalt not eat it; that it may go well with thee, and with thy children after thee, when thou shalt do that which is right in the sight of the LORD.
26  Only thy holy things which thou hast, and thy vows, thou shalt take, and go unto the place which the LORD shall choose:
27  And thou shalt offer thy burnt offerings, the flesh and the blood, upon the altar of the LORD thy God: and the blood of thy sacrifices shall be poured out upon the altar of the LORD thy God, and thou shalt eat the flesh.

As for Daniel and the exiles, they refrained from partaking in eating and drinking things offered in idolatry. Which things the above verse speaks of as well.

When I speak of minimizing the priesthood, I am speaking of their authority of government given by the law. 

 

 

[Qnts2]

14 hours ago, Joline said:

I understand you disagree with my understanding. The feasts being all about Messiah, includes Messiahs priesthood. That is what I see missing from your point of view. But I cannot say I am surprised at that. Rabbinic Judaism also diminishes the role and importance of the priesthood as well.

One more comment.

The Messiahs priesthood does not directly fit in the Mosaic law since the Messiahs linage is not the priestly linage. The Messiahs linage, thru David, is the line of the King, not the priests

What makes Jesus priesthood is that it is a New Covenant, not the Mosaic covenant, with a new priesthood. In the pointers from the High Holidays, nothing points to the Priesthood in the OT.

There is one set of Mosaic laws which point to the Priesthood of Jesus as a shadow. When a person accidently murders another person, the family of the deceased chooses an avenger, to avenge their lost relatives death. The person who accidently committed the murder had to run to a city of refuge where the avenger was not allowed to kill the murderer, as long as the murderer remained in the city of refuge. If the murderer stepped outside of the city of refuge, the avenger was free to avenge the murder. So, the murderer was essentially trapped within the city of refuge, unable to return home, or go to Jerusalem for any of the Holy Days. There is one very strange statement connected with this law. When the High Priest died, the murderer was then free to leave the city of refuge, and the avenger could no longer seek them to avenge the death of the person who was murdered. When the High Priest died, the person inprisoned in the city of refuge was then made free. I believe that set of laws clearly points to Jesus as the High Priest who dies to set the captives free. 

Numbers 35:

¹¹ Then ye shall appoint you cities to be cities of refuge for you; that the slayer may flee thither, which killeth any person at unawares.

¹² And they shall be unto you cities for refuge from the avenger; that the manslayer die not, until he stand before the congregation in judgment.

¹³ And of these cities which ye shall give six cities shall ye have for refuge.

¹⁴ Ye shall give three cities on this side Jordan, and three cities shall ye give in the land of Canaan, which shall be cities of refuge.

¹⁵ These six cities shall be a refuge, both for the children of Israel, and for the stranger, and for the sojourner among them: that every one that killeth any person unawares may flee thither.

¹⁶ And if he smite him with an instrument of iron, so that he die, he is a murderer: the murderer shall surely be put to death.

¹⁷ And if he smite him with throwing a stone, wherewith he may die, and he die, he is a murderer: the murderer shall surely be put to death.

¹⁸ Or if he smite him with an hand weapon of wood, wherewith he may die, and he die, he is a murderer: the murderer shall surely be put to death.

¹⁹ The revenger of blood himself shall slay the murderer: when he meeteth him, he shall slay him.

²⁰ But if he thrust him of hatred, or hurl at him by laying of wait, that he die;

²¹ Or in enmity smite him with his hand, that he die: he that smote him shall surely be put to death; for he is a murderer: the revenger of blood shall slay the murderer, when he meeteth him.

²² But if he thrust him suddenly without enmity, or have cast upon him any thing without laying of wait,

²³ Or with any stone, wherewith a man may die, seeing him not, and cast it upon him, that he die, and was not his enemy, neither sought his harm:

²⁴ Then the congregation shall judge between the slayer and the revenger of blood according to these judgments:

²⁵ And the congregation shall deliver the slayer out of the hand of the revenger of blood, and the congregation shall restore him to the city of his refuge, whither he was fled: and he shall abide in it unto the death of the high priest, which was anointed with the holy oil.

²⁶ But if the slayer shall at any time come without the border of the city of his refuge, whither he was fled;

²⁷ And the revenger of blood find him without the borders of the city of his refuge, and the revenger of blood kill the slayer; he shall not be guilty of blood:

²⁸ Because he should have remained in the city of his refuge until the death of the high priest: but after the death of the high priest the slayer shall return into the land of his possession.

[Qnts2]

4 hours ago, Reinitin said:

I would think that the Lord had to enter into the heavenly sanctuary first. Cleanse the heavenly temple first (mans sins had reached the heavens) As our High Priest the Lord can make intercession before God for our sins with His flesh and blood that was offered (once for all) and distributed outside the camp for the people.  We find the leaven (sin) in  our homes (our hearts) remove it.  Share the lamb with all those in our household, place the blood on the door posts (our heart) when the death angle passes over and the wrath and judgment of God is distributed to the rebellious generation and all mankind is judged. God will pass over the houses where the blood is applied over the door and Christ will lead us to the promised land. I guess you would need a book to explain each day of the feast  cause it goes all the way through and is being acted out before man as a witness before man what The Lord has done for us, what he is doing for us and what he will do for us when he returns and makes all things new and we receive our incorruptible flesh that is free from death.

There have been several books written about the meaning of the feasts coming from the Mosaic covenant into the New Covenant. For the fall feast day, being in the future, you will find variation in interpretation. The spring feast days, already fulfilled, are consistent since Jesus work to fulfill occurred on the exact days of the feasts.

[Guest]

4 hours ago, Reinitin said:

I would think that the Lord had to enter into the heavenly sanctuary first. Cleanse the heavenly temple first (mans sins had reached the heavens) As our High Priest the Lord can make intercession before God for our sins with His flesh and blood that was offered (once for all) and distributed outside the camp for the people.  We find the leaven (sin) in  our homes (our hearts) remove it.  Share the lamb with all those in our household, place the blood on the door posts (our heart) when the death angle passes over and the wrath and judgment of God is distributed to the rebellious generation and all mankind is judged. God will pass over the houses where the blood is applied over the door and Christ will lead us to the promised land. I guess you would need a book to explain each day of the feast  cause it goes all the way through and is being acted out before man as a witness before man what The Lord has done for us, what he is doing for us and what he will do for us when he returns and makes all things new and we receive our incorruptible flesh that is free from death.

Yes, this is what Hebrews teaches. Hebrews here is speaking of the day of atonement specifically. 

9:23  It was therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.
24  For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:
25  Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others;
26  For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.
27  And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
28  So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.
1  For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.
2  For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.
3  But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.