The problem with sacraments

[Guest shiloh357]

Not even Jesus kept all of the sacraments,  so how could He institute them?

[Guest]

18 minutes ago, kwikphilly said:

Very good Joline,,,,,,,insightful,I like Old Schools post too,,,,,,,

I don't believe all "sacraments" are instituted by Jesus though,,,,,,for example as stated in the Douay-Challoner Text & the Confraternity for NT & Pslams(Catholic Press,,,,,,,edited by rvd Connell      

I am going to stop right there,I cannot go any further with this false teaching & that is what it is,,,,,,,,,,there is no "special grace"that is above Gods Grace given FREELY through Jesus to every believer who confesses Jesus is Lord & Savior,,,,,,,,,,,,increasing Gods Grace? As if His Grace as it is ,is NOT SUFFICIENT?!!!! This is not sound doctrine,Scripture does not support this

The Seven Sacraments of the RCC,,,,,Holy Orders,Confirmation,Baptism,Holy Eucharist,Penance,Extreme Unction,Matrimony,,,,,,,,,where has Christ Jesus instituted 7 sacraments,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,it is not supported by Gods Word,not even out of context,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

The best way in my opinion to look at this ( I am in the process of that now) is to look at The Jewish siddur, compared to the Catholic Missal. Both concern orders of liturgical order of service. I thought to do this because I specifically remember the recitation of being "sanctified" by the commandments when I was involved in the movement.

Blessed are You, Lord our God, King of the universe,
Who has sanctified us with His commandments,
and commanded us to kindle the light of the holy Shabbat.

Anyone thinking Judaism does not specifically address Sanctification, blessing and mercy to practicing ritualistic rites, needs to read of these things in the siddur. There is much parallel to the two.

And of course these functions of blessing etc, are the function of the Levitical priesthood, according to Moses torah.

Catholicism very closely follows Judaism, or rather, Rabbinic Judaism follows Christian practice in establishing the transfer of Temple ritual (A Levitical prerogative) to the synagogue.

Personally I do believe out of Jealousy which Paul spoke of.

 

[Guest shiloh357]

6 minutes ago, Joline said:

The best way in my opinion to look at this ( I am in the process of that now) is to look at The Jewish siddur, compared to the Catholic Missal. Both concern orders of liturgical order of service. I thought to do this because I specifically remember the recitation of being "sanctified" by the commandments when I was involved in the movement.

Blessed are You, Lord our God, King of the universe,
Who has sanctified us with His commandments,
and commanded us to kindle the light of the holy Shabbat.

Anyone thinking Judaism does not specifically address Sanctification, blessing and mercy to practicing ritualistic rites, needs to read of these things in the siddur. There is much parallel to the two.

And of course these functions of blessing etc, are the function of the Levitical priesthood, according to Moses torah.

Catholicism very closely follows Judaism, or rather, Rabbinic Judaism follows Christian practice in establishing the transfer of Temple ritual to the synagogue.

Personally I do believe out of Jealousy which Paul spoke of.

 

Rabbinic Judaism isn't following any Christian practice at all.   Most of the prayers in the siddur and the order those prayer exist in predate Christianity and go back to the men of the "Great Assembly" centuries before Jesus.

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, shiloh357 said:

Rabbinic Judaism isn't following any Christian practice at all.   Most of the prayers in the siddur and the order those prayer exist in predate Christianity and go back to the men of the "Great Assembly" centuries before Jesus.

Getting into the micro, blurs the parallel Shiloh.

It is the proclamations concerning the benefit conferred on the participants. Blessing, Grace, Sanctification.

Which many were in practice since Moses, not just the great assembly. They transferred many of the liturgical functions of the priesthood, performed upon those convocating to the temple minsters. And Ezra, was a priest and scribe of the law. 

[kwikphilly]

Blessings Joline,,,,

    I see what you are saying & comparing "catholicism",,,,,,,,not Christianity,,,,,,,,,,,,,,lol,Shiloh,,,,,"you're both right!"               Love,Kwik

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, kwikphilly said:

Blessings Joline,,,,

    I see what you are saying & comparing "catholicism",,,,,,,,not Christianity,,,,,,,,,,,,,,lol,Shiloh,,,,,"you're both right!"               Love,Kwik

Comparing priesthood, to priesthood.

If you would like to say Catholicism is a pseudo priesthood, well so too is the rabbinic replacement of Temple ritual and transfer of the same to synagogues.

[kwikphilly]

Oh I believe I understand exactly what you are saying,,,,,,,,,they both leave out the beauty of GODS GRACE to the BELIEVER,,,,,,through & by JESUS & HIS being our Personal Savior,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,the catholics influence their listeners(congregants) that the "priests" have some special ordination much like the "High priests" of the Levitical priesthood(only they can enter the Holy of Holies,etc,,,,,etc,,,,    Only a rcc priest can give the "sacraments",,,,,,,,the "sacraments" are not even in the Bible,they are in the RCC missile,,,,,,,,,,,,,,EXACTLY,Shiloh is right on & so are you

[Guest]

1 hour ago, kwikphilly said:

35 minutes ago, kwikphilly said:

Oh I believe I understand exactly what you are saying,,,,,,,,,they both leave out the beauty of GODS GRACE to the BELIEVER,,,,,,through & by JESUS & HIS being our Personal Savior,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,the catholics influence their listeners(congregants) that the "priests" have some special ordination much like the "High priests" of the Levitical priesthood(only they can enter the Holy of Holies,etc,,,,,etc,,,,    Only a rcc priest can give the "sacraments",,,,,,,,the "sacraments" are not even in the Bible,they are in the RCC missile,,,,,,,,,,,,,,EXACTLY,Shiloh is right on & so are you

Very good Joline,,,,,,,insightful,I like Old Schools post too,,,,,,,

   

I am going to stop right there,I cannot go any further with this false teaching & that is what it is,,,,,,,,,,there is no "special grace"that is above Gods Grace given FREELY through Jesus to every believer who confesses Jesus is Lord & Savior,,,,,,,,,,,,increasing Gods Grace? As if His Grace as it is ,is NOT SUFFICIENT?!!!! This is not sound doctrine,Scripture does not support this

 

So, you are able to stomach similar ideas presented in Messianic Judaism? That maintains their halacic distinction in Christ?

I find that.......should I say puzzling?

Blessings

[Guest shiloh357]

14 minutes ago, Joline said:

Getting into the micro, blurs the parallel Shiloh.

It is the proclamations concerning the benefit conferred on the participants. Blessing, Grace, Sanctification.

Which many were in practice since Moses, not just the great assembly. They transferred many of the liturgical functions of the priesthood, performed upon those convocating to the temple minsters. And Ezra, was a priest and scribe of the law. 

I am fairly familiar with the siddur and I am not aware of any prayers that confer blessing, grace or sanctification on the participants.  There are requests for God to grant blessing and mercy and prosperity upon all of Israel and peace for the world.   There are a lot of prayers that praise and bless the Lord.  Which prayers from the siddur do you have in mind?

[kwikphilly]

Yeah,me too Joline,,,,,,,,,,,,,WOW,the more I get to know you the more I get you,,,,,you're A-OK   girl,,,,,,,,my Sister