Difference between Messianic Jews and Christians

[George]

Out of curiosity, when Jesus returns -- is He coming back as a Jew?

[LeavesSeeds]

As KING of the Jews.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, George said:

Out of curiosity, when Jesus returns -- is He coming back as a Jew?

1Jo 3:2  Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
 

 

[Ogner]

5 minutes ago, George said:

Out of curiosity, when Jesus returns -- is He coming back as a Jew?

2 Corinthians 5:16 "Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more."

[SIC]

1 hour ago, Joline said:

Hello SIC,

You may wish to look up some Messianic scholars on the subject. I do not think you will find much insight here.

Mark Kinzer and his paper concerning Messianic sacraments and the Priesthood of Jew's, as they understand it as their unique inheritance in the Abrahamic promises. This can useful to understand the mission found within the Messianic movement, not just to Jew's, but also Gentiles. As well as first fruits of Zion's doctrine of divine invitation concerning Gentiles in the movement. This doctrine was a change from the "one law" movement, concerning Gentiles keeping law just like Jew's. However first fruits of Zion admits their approach has changed not their purpose.

The Hebrew Christian association of America changed it's name years ago to mjaa. The name change reflected a theological shift which had come out of the Jesus movement of the 60's.

 

Thank you Joline

[George]

So if He's coming back as King of the Jews, then this passage makes sense --

Act 1:6  Then, indeed, these coming together, they asked Him, saying, Lord, do You at this time restore the kingdom to Israel? 
Act 1:7  And He said to them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father has put in His own authority. 

So the future Kingdom is that of ISRAEL.

Thus it;s not Jews GRAFTED into "Christianity", but rather "Gentiles" GRAFTED into ISRAEL.

Eph 2:12  and that at that time you were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world. 
Eph 2:13  But now in Christ Jesus you who were once afar off are made near by the blood of Christ. 
Eph 2:14  For He is our peace, He making us both one, and He has broken down the middle wall of partition between us, 
Eph 2:15  having abolished in His flesh the enmity (the Law of commandments contained in ordinances) so that in Himself He might make the two into one new man, making peace between them; 
Eph 2:16  and so that He might reconcile both to God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity in Himself. 

The LORD's heart was to reconcile both Jew and Gentile into His vision of ISRAEL!  Perhaps this thread should work toward that END!

[LeavesSeeds]

It can't - too many rules would be broken that are in the terms of service.

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, George said:

So if He's coming back as King of the Jews, then this passage makes sense --

Act 1:6  Then, indeed, these coming together, they asked Him, saying, Lord, do You at this time restore the kingdom to Israel? 
Act 1:7  And He said to them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father has put in His own authority. 

So the future Kingdom is that of ISRAEL.

Thus it;s not Jews GRAFTED into "Christianity", but rather "Gentiles" GRAFTED into ISRAEL.

Eph 2:12  and that at that time you were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world. 
Eph 2:13  But now in Christ Jesus you who were once afar off are made near by the blood of Christ. 
Eph 2:14  For He is our peace, He making us both one, and He has broken down the middle wall of partition between us, 
Eph 2:15  having abolished in His flesh the enmity (the Law of commandments contained in ordinances) so that in Himself He might make the two into one new man, making peace between them; 
Eph 2:16  and so that He might reconcile both to God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity in Himself. 

The LORD's heart was to reconcile both Jew and Gentile into His vision of ISRAEL!  Perhaps this thread should work toward that END!

 

Joh 18:36  Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

Heb 11:15  And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned.
Heb 11:16  But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.

Re 19:16  And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.

Joh 17:5  And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

1Heb 7:16  Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life.

[Ogner]

31 minutes ago, George said:

So if He's coming back as King of the Jews, then this passage makes sense --

 

Matthew 8:10-12, ^" When Jesus heard him, he marveled, and said to those who followed him, “Truly, I say to you, not even in Israel have I found such faith. I tell you, many will come from east and west and sit at table with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven, while the sons of the kingdom will be thrown into the outer darkness; there men will weep and gnash their teeth.”

Luke 13: 25-30, "When once the householder has risen up and shut the door, you will begin to stand outside and to knock at the door, saying, ‘Lord, open to us.’ He will answer you, ‘I do not know where you come from.’ Then you will begin to say, ‘We ate and drank in your presence, and you taught in our streets.’ But he will say, ‘I tell you, I do not know where you come from; depart from me, all you workers of iniquity!’ There you will weep and gnash your teeth, when you see Abraham and Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God and you yourselves thrust out.  And men will come from east and west, and from north and south, and sit at table in the kingdom of God. And behold, some are last who will be first, and some are first who will be last."

 

Edited May 31, 2016 by Ogner

[Guest]

04899 משׁיח mashiyach maw-shee’ akh

from 04886, Greek 3323 Μεσσιας; n m; {See TWOT on 1255 @@ "1255c"}

AV-anointed 37, Messiah 2; 39

 

1) anointed, anointed one
1a) of the Messiah, Messianic prince
1b) of the king of Israel
1c) of the high priest of Israel
1d) of Cyrus
1e) of the patriarchs as anointed kings

Le 4:3  If the priest that is anointed <04899> do sin according to the sin of the people; then let him bring for his sin, which he hath sinned, a young bullock without blemish unto the LORD for a sin offering.
Le 4:5  And the priest that is anointed <04899> shall take of the bullock’s blood, and bring it to the tabernacle of the congregation:
Le 4:16  And the priest that is anointed <04899> shall bring of the bullock’s blood to the tabernacle of the congregation:
Le 6:22  And the priest of his sons that is anointed <04899> in his stead shall offer it: it is a statute for ever unto the LORD; it shall be wholly burnt.

Ephesians here speaks of the Levitical service, which Gentiles had no representative agency without citizenship...............

In times past Gentiles had no anointed priest (Mashiyach) to bear our names to appear before God.............................Uncircumcised we had no tribal affiliation and no name as a signet on the holy vestments worn by the Levitical CHRISTOS. Neither in the breastplate of judgement, nor his two shoulders in the ephod.

Eph 2:12  That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

Ex 28:9  And thou shalt take two onyx stones, and grave on them the names of the children of Israel:
Ex 28:11  With the work of an engraver in stone, like the engravings of a signet, shalt thou engrave the two stones with the names of the children of Israel: thou shalt make them to be set in ouches of gold.
Ex 28:12  And thou shalt put the two stones upon the shoulders of the ephod for stones of memorial unto the children of Israel: and Aaron shall bear their names before the LORD upon his two shoulders for a memorial.
Ex 28:17  And thou shalt set in it settings of stones, even four rows of stones: the first row shall be a sardius, a topaz, and a carbuncle: this shall be the first row.

Ex 28:21  And the stones shall be with the names of the children of Israel, twelve, according to their names, like the engravings of a signet; every one with his name shall they be according to the twelve tribes.

 

Common Israeliters did not enter Gods house either, only the priests and high priest, on their behalf..................

But now in CHRISTOS JESUS................

 

We BOTH Jew and Gentile can enter into the very house of God itself. As Israelites themselves were strangers there.

Nu 16:40  To be a memorial unto the children of Israel, that no stranger, which is not of the seed of Aaron, come near to offer incense before the LORD; that he be not as Korah, and as his company: as the LORD said to him by the hand of Moses.

Eph 2:13  But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

Eph 2:18  For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.

Eph 2:19  Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
 

Heb 7:16  Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life.