If you don't work you shouldn't eat? 2 Thess. 3:10

[Ezra]

1 hour ago, GoldenEagle said:

I think most people would rather depend on themselves. It is sad when those who are in need are turned away or cannot find help.

Definitely.  And anyone in their right mind would not apply the exhortation to work to those who are in extreme need and need a hand up -- not a hand out.  The truth of the matter -- which has been ignored by most churches -- is that the needy in the local assembly were the top priority. See Acts 6:1-7. And Paul's requests to other churches was to help the needy in Judea.

[woundeddog]

man. I'm really hungry----- any one need their lawn cut?

[Guest Thallasa]

On ‎25‎/‎06‎/‎2016 at 7:11 PM, firestormx said:

Matthew 25:41-46

41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:

43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.

44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?

45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.

46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

 

Show me the exception in the words of the King and Lord Jesus Christ, where we get to decide if someone exceeds our standard of laziness before we show love and compassion and mercy. To often people are just looking for an excuse not to have to lift a finger to help anyone.

Not where we live . There is nothing more destructive to the hamony of a community of any kind than someone who wants to  boast of his comforts , gained on the backs of hard working people who are generous  . I think there is much more of this nowadays, where welfare is normal . In Jesus time, there would not have been what there is today :  and I do not recall Him saying 'allow lazy people to take advantage of others '.  Instead He said to look after widows and orphans _ and those in NEED,  which would mean temporary need .  

 

[firestormx]

12 minutes ago, Thallasa said:

Not where we live . There is nothing more destructive to the hamony of a community of any kind than someone who wants to  boast of his comforts , gained on the backs of hard working people who are generous  . I think there is much more of this nowadays, where welfare is normal . In Jesus time, there would not have been what there is today :  and I do not recall Him saying 'allow lazy people to take advantage of others '.  Instead He said to look after widows and orphans _ and those in NEED,  which would mean temporary need .  

 

With wisdom, when the default reaction is not to follow the law of Love but to say let them starve, then how are we following the doctrine of Christ?

[Guest Thallasa]

20 hours ago, GoldenEagle said:

How do we balance between making sure people are not taking advantage and the commands in scripture to give and not hold back? This is what I'm wrestling through and trying to come to terms with. 

Here are some of the passages I'm talking about and wrestling through. Feel free to look them up in context.   

The the Old Testament for example: 

Deuteronomy 15:10
Give generously to him and do so without a grudging heart; then because of this the Lord your God will bless you in all your work and in everything you put your hand to.

Deuteronomy 16:17
Every man shall give as he is able, according to the blessing of the LORD your God which He has given you.

Proverbs 3:27 
Do not withhold good from those to whom it is due, when it is in your power to do it. 

Proverbs 11:24-25
There is one who scatters, and yet increases all the more, and there is one who withholds what is justly due, and yet it results only in want. The generous man will be prosperous, and he who waters will himself be watered. 

Proverbs 21:26
…the righteous gives and does not hold back.

Proverbs 22:9
He who is generous will be blessed, for he gives some of his food to the poor.

Proverbs 28:27 
He who gives to the poor will never want, but he who shuts his eyes will have many curses.

 

Or how about the New Testament? 

Luke 6:30
Give to everyone who asks of you, and whoever takes away what is yours, do not demand it back. 

Luke 6:38
Give, and it will be given to you. They will pour into your lap a good measure, pressed down, shaken together, and running over. For by your standard of measure it will be measured to you in return.

Matthew 6:3-4
But when you give to the poor, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, so that your giving will be in secret; and your Father who sees what is done in secret will reward you.

2 Corinthians 9:6-8
Now this I say, he who sows sparingly will also reap sparingly, and he who sows bountifully will also reap bountifully. Each one must do just as he has purposed in his heart, not grudgingly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver. And God is able to make all grace abound to you, so that always having all sufficiency in everything, you may have an abundance for every good deed.

James 2:15-16
If a brother or sister is without clothing and in need of daily food, and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and be filled,” and yet you do not give them what is necessary for their body, what use is that?

God bless,

GE

 I do not any longer belong to a Church .

 Society today is many layered,*****and humanity has grown about 175000 times the population since Jesus was here . I see myself in some way as a Citizen more than the member of a Church and consider it my responsiblity to help those in need , so most of my spare money goes to Africa and some to Middle East christians ,while I give away a lot to people I meet here and there .

BUT this thread is distasteful to me, because where people wish to contribute their hard earned money ,is not for those who are judgemental to decide ,and I see that from some here who are very judgemental as they like to make themselves look good .in comparison.

[Guest Thallasa]

12 minutes ago, firestormx said:

With wisdom, when the default reaction is not to follow the law of Love but to say let them starve, then how are we following the doctrine of Christ?

 I have no idea what you are talking about ; Love to me is generosity often, and strict discipline at othertimes . We grow when challenged, as I grew up in a slum , still have no car nor ,dishwasher and much else ,but consider myself rich ,yes rich . 

Encouraging idleness ,self pity , lusting after others goods which they have gained from hard work, is a sin in my book . I can see when people are truly needy and give often, or I might be able to afford the things I do not have, but find intolerable the selfishness of those with a Me first mind set , whether they are Rich or Poor . 

[woundeddog]

at the mission here we do require that the guests do "volunteer work" to help with the operation-- nothing back breaking or time consuming but on a rotational basis we ask the guests to put in an hour or two every couple of weeks------ I figured it out last year and on a frugal economy basis the service we offer the guests would cost them 63.00 a day if thy could purchase comparable housing and food on the open market--- even handicap guys help by folding laundry and other similar chores

[Guest Thallasa]

14 hours ago, RobertS said:

Exactly. And this is why I don't ask for help when I'm in need. I want to be able to do for myself, not to mention someone else could use that help a lot more.

I think that it is good to ask when in need ,as it might prevent further problems developing .Of course we should be on the look out to help anyone who is struggling .

There seems to be misunderstandings here ; we should ideally help people out before they become too lost to help themselves ; no one in a community who has temporary problems should be left in a situation where they are not given a hand up . It is our duty to Watch out for people 'falling' and help them but not a a way of life .

[firestormx]

1 hour ago, Thallasa said:

 I have no idea what you are talking about ; Love to me is generosity often, and strict discipline at othertimes . We grow when challenged, as I grew up in a slum , still have no car nor ,dishwasher and much else ,but consider myself rich ,yes rich . 

Encouraging idleness ,self pity , lusting after others goods which they have gained from hard work, is a sin in my book . I can see when people are truly needy and give often, or I might be able to afford the things I do not have, but find intolerable the selfishness of those with a Me first mind set , whether they are Rich or Poor . 

What I am talking about is this. How many times in our own lives have we been disobedient to God, not doing what he said, not doing what he told us to do? But , yet God still had mercy on us. God showed us love and compassion by still allowing us to have a place to sleep, something to eat and something to wear. How many times have we done nothing all the way to doing the opposite of what God has said , yet he still shows us love, mercy and compassion by giving us our daily bread, clothes and place to sleep? So then, who are we not show that same love , mercy and compassion to others, whether it's through feeding the hungry, comforting the broken heart or whatever. Who are we not show the same love to others God shows to us every single day. God has never told me or anyone I know that only if I meet such and such standard will he give me my daily bread. Therefore, I will not do it to someone else.

[GoldenEagle]

8 hours ago, kwikphilly said:

Blessings Brother(Hiya-lol)

We don't ,the Holy Spirit does & we need only to be obedient,not get in the way,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,I'll explain,it is not for us to determine on our own who is pulling the wool over our eyes & who is deserving of what we will give,,,,,it is not "ours" in the first place,we are merely stewards of what God & God Alone Provides,,,

Shiloh mentioned that we must use our common sense & that is helpful but we have much more than just "common sense" we have the Heart & Mind of Christ,,,,,,,,,,,,We must first understand that everything we have been Provided with is from God,we may have earned it but it is He Who has given us the Power by which to attain wealth,,,,,,in fact,even 'we" ourselves are His,we have been purchased,bought by His Blood

If you sat down with pen & paper & added up what I have & what I should give,according to facts,,,,you would say"she cannot give,it is impossible',,,,,,,But with Gods Truth & by His Provision I am Blessed Abundantly & always have something to give,,,,,,,and I simply "give" to who I am lead to give to,,,,,,,does it matter "why" they have their hand out? No,not really,,,,,,,what that recipient sees is an act of kindness,love,charity,,what they hear is that they must thank the Lord because it is from Him & their hearts are convicted no matter what their motive is,,,,,      Does it matter that the homeless alcoholic(with his car parked behind the bushes) intends to do with the 2 dollars in the Bible I just gave him? No,it was an opportunity to show him,I love you,Jesus loves you just the way you are

  I think too many people let their pride ,knowledge or their thought process get in the way,just give,it is easy,,,,,,God is looking at your heart & Blesses you a hundred fold,,,,,,He is Provider        I've been duped & I knew very well that it was not what the person said it was but the Holy Spirit prompted me to give anyway & so I did,I just Trust God,,,,,& there were other times I was prompted not to,again,,,,trusting God,,,,,,,,

   THe "takers" will always get something from me,perhaps it won't be money but they will get something because they asked,,,,the one's that don't work & want to eat,,,,,well,I do not believe they should get public(gov't assistance)hand outs but I will feed them if they are hungry,,,,,,,I don't ask why,the gov't should do that but not me,I do what I am lead to do,,,,,it is not my decision ,,,,,it is not "mine" to decide      To God be the Glory

                                                                                     With love-in Christ,Kwik

Hiya again Kwik  

I agree with you we need to be sensitive to the Holy Spirit. All we have belongs to God. 

God does provide above and beyond for our needs. I like your example of the homeless person. I know too many who simply don't give to anyone at any time. I'm a lot more inclined to give food or water rather than money. But $1 or $2 may go a long way for a homeless person. Sometimes we give and others we do not. 

It's almost like I'd rather err on the side of giving than being stingy though with those who ask for help. 

Thank you for your heart and your encouraging words sister!  

God bless,
GE