What do you think about Boundaries?

[GoldenEagle]

15 hours ago, Ezra said:

If you gave up on them because of this, they can't be all that good.  One of the fundamental principles of life is KEEP IT SIMPLE.  

All this talk about boundaries has no relation to Bible truth. Here's the *boundary* Christ set before us (Matthew 5:39-42):

39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.

40 And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloke also.

41 And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain.

42 Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away.

Ezra you made the same claim at the beginning of this thread on post 54.

 

Re: Smite Thee

For example, smite the was used of blows with the hand or with a stick. For such blows fines from a shekel upwards were imposed by Jewish courts. Jesus was saying not to take people to court over this. When we are hurt or wronged our natural instinct is to retaliate or to accuse. This would likely surprise the attacking party. Jesus was saying don't do those things and stay out of petty legal proceedings. But also an opportunity to witness and show love to others who didn't deserve it. See John 13:34-35

Re: Coat and Cloak

The Jews wore two principal garments, an interior and an exterior. The interior, here called the "coat," or the tunic, was made commonly of linen, and encircled the whole body, extending down to the knees. The coat, or tunic, was extended to the neck and had long or short sleeves. Over this was commonly worn an upper garment, here called "cloke," or mantle in the KJV. It was made commonly nearly square, of different sizes, 5 or 6 cubits long and as many broad, and was wrapped around the body, and was thrown off when labor was performed. If, said Christ, an adversary wished to obtain, at law, one of these garments, rather than contend with him let him have the other also. This would likely surprise the accusing party. Again, Jesus is saying don't participate in petty legal proceedings. But also an opportunity to witness and show love to others who didn't deserve it. See John 13:34-35

Re: Whosoever compel thee to go a mile

As I understand it the word translated "shall compel" is of Persian origin. Post-offices are modern invention and system of communication. In order that the royal commands might be delivered with safety and dispatch in different parts of the empire, King Cyrus stationed horsemen at proper intervals on all the great public highways. One of those delivered the message to another. So intelligence was rapidly and safely communicated. These royal messengers were permitted to compel any person, boat, ship, owner of a horse, or other vehicle that they might need for the quick transmission of the king's commandments. Pretty good system right? The Romans thought so too and adopted it into their customs with the mile passuum.

Rather than resist a public authority requiring your attendance and aid for a certain distance go willingly twice the distance. A Roman mile was 1,000 paces. Jesus was saying to go 2,000 paces if a public authority required you assistance. This would surprise the public authority and might even provide opportunity for discussion as to why you were doing this. Again, this was legal advice.  But also an opportunity to witness and show love to others who didn't deserve it. See John 13:34-35

Re: Give and Borrow

God is generous and giving. He gave His Son's life for ours. He blesses people with mercy and stays his hand of wrath against them despite their sin. Jews were not allowed to charge interest to other Jews. See Exodus 22:25; Leviticus 25:37; Deuteronomy 23:19-20.  The higher law of Christ treats all men as brothers. As such we should give and lend freely expecting nothing in return. I don't believe Jesus would encourage laziness but to help our family's and those truly in need. (1 Timothy 5:8; 2 Thessalonians 3:10) If a widow, an orphan, a man of misfortune, or an infirmed man, lame, or sick, is at your door don't send any of them away empty handed. (See Matthew 25:35-45; Hebrews 13:2) This was social advice. This would show others that the followers of Jesus truly loved one another fulfilling the new command by Jesus. See John 13:34-35

The sermon on the mount was not an assertion of laws but of principles of life, witnessing, and loving others. It was to a specific people at a specific time for specific circumstances. It is not saying you should have no boundaries at all. Sorry brother I think your interpretation of this passage is incorrect.

God bless,
GE

[Ezra]

1 hour ago, GoldenEagle said:

The sermon on the mount was not an assertion of laws but of principles of life, witnessing, and loving others. It was to a specific people at a specific time for specific circumstances.

GE,

Yes, I repeated the Scriptures because that is what one must go by. To say that the Sermon on the Mount had limited application is to fail to understand or apply Scripture properly.  Those are Christian principles, which apply to boundaries or anything else.  

The modern (or should w say post-modern?), secular, humanistic idea of boundaries is not for Christians.

[GoldenEagle]

Fences with a Gate: Protection — Good in, Bad out

Boundaries do not only help us avoid pain or irresponsibility. They are also important for guarding and nurturing the soul that God entrusted us. They are like fences with a gate. You can control what comes in and what goes out. This is very important, because within us are many things that are very damaging to us.

For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness: All these evil things come from within, and defile the man. (Mark 7:21–23)

These are the things that must leave our property and we need the ability to let them go so that they cannot poison us anymore. If we find pain or sin within us we need to open up and communicate our innermost to God, so that he can heal and forgive us.

But we must keep the gate shut closely when evil is present or if sin wants to enter our life in order to protect the good that is inside. Genesis 4:7 says

If you do not what is right, sin is crouching at your door. It desires to have you, but you must master it.

On the other hand, we need to be able to let our guards down when the danger is gone and open up for the good things outside. In Revelation 3:20 Jesus says

Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

Other people may have good things to give to us as well and we need to open up to them.

So boundaries are not walls but they are no open range either. If we want to grow, we need to control what goes in and what goes out. But if we lack boundaries, we allow many bad things to enter our life and good things to be destroyed by them. We will be tossed around by the waves created by the world around us and experience a lot of problems, fears, and helplessness in our struggle against sin.

He that hath no rule over his own spirit is like a city that is broken down, and without walls. (Proverbs 25:28)

If we don’t learn to take control of our life by protecting our boundaries, we are a fair game for the devil. We can’t lose our salvation – but we won’t grow either.

On the other hand, if our boundaries become walls, if we close ourselves off, then we hold the bad and painful inside and keep the good out. People who have suffered from abuse have a tendency to do that and they need to learn to open up in the right way.

- Page 11, Boundaries in Marriage

[GoldenEagle]

Re: If I set boundaries, I am being selfish.

This objection against setting boundaries is raised by Christians who fear being considered as self-centered, interested only in their own concerns and not those of others. They rightly point out that we are to be loving people, concerned for the welfare of others. In fact, the love for one another is the number one hallmark of Christians, as pointed out in the Bible over and over again (Matthew 19:19 & 22:19, Luke 10:27, John 13:35, Romans 13:10, Galatians 5:14, James 2:8).

Don’t boundaries turn us away from that ideal toward self-centeredness?

Quite the opposite is true. Appropriate boundaries actually make us able to care about others. In fact, people with highly developed limits are the most caring people in the world. How can this be?

Basically it is because they experience that their own needs are taken care of, so they have plenty of energy to care about others.

We all have needs, desires, and wishes. Selfishness only looks at our own wishes and desires, but not at what we really need. As a consequence, we lose balance and our focus on healthy goals and our responsibility to love others. For instance, some may desperately need help with the fact that they are terrible listeners or that they cannot share their possessions. But they may not desire this. God is much more interested in meeting our needs than granting all our wishes.

But my God shall supply all your need according to his riches in glory by Christ Jesus. (Philippians 4:19)

That doesn’t mean our wishes are “all bad”. God will meet many of them but they are certainly less important.

Nevertheless, although God takes care of our need, he expects our participation. It is our responsibility to ask, seek, and knock (Matthew 7:7), before we can receive, find, and get doors opened. There will be little spiritual and emotional growth if we do not bring our needs before God and do everything we can to get these needs fulfilled. Taking care of our own life is stewardship, not selfishness, because we properly manage this precious gift from God instead of neglecting it due to a lack of boundaries.

- Page 27, Boundaries in Marriage

[GoldenEagle]

On ‎10‎/‎14‎/‎2016 at 11:45 AM, Ezra said:

GE,

Yes, I repeated the Scriptures because that is what one must go by. To say that the Sermon on the Mount had limited application is to fail to understand or apply Scripture properly.  Those are Christian principles, which apply to boundaries or anything else.  

The modern (or should w say post-modern?), secular, humanistic idea of boundaries is not for Christians.

Ezra,

Yes, you've stated this more than once. You keep saying to the effect that Sermon on the Mount demolishes the idea of boundaries. Yet you are failing to look at context and failing to look at Scripture as a whole in the spirit of 1 Peter 1:20.

From this thread I gather you believe that pastors (with no formal training) are the best counselors. I also gather that you believe everything we experience or every problem we have is the result of a sin issue. This kind of sums up your perspective.

I think Out of the Shadows said it best:

On ‎9‎/‎2‎/‎2016 at 0:09 PM, Out of the Shadows said:

The skills to be a pastor are very different than the skills to be a counselor, so the chances of them having both gifts are very small.  And based upon personal experience and that of many people I know, the number of pastors that are good at both are very tiny indeed.

@Ezra From my perspective, Christian Counselors who have studied both the Bible and human behavior (psychology) are best equipped to help others sort through issues. Sometimes some of the worst advice given is by pastors who mean well but who have no formal training.

If we have no boundaries...

1. How can we minimize our hearts against our sinful nature if we have no boundaries as seen in Mark 7:21-23?

2. How can we avoid sin if we have no boundaries as seen in Genesis 4:7?

3. Why did Jesus say He knocks in Revelation 3:20 if our lives have no boundaries?

4. How can we have rule over our own lives if we have no boundaries as seen in Proverbs 25:28?

God bless,

GE

[GoldenEagle]

Law #9 The Law of Activity

Human beings are responders and initiators. We respond to invitations and push ourselves into life. But many times we have boundary problems because we lack initiative, we are passive. Being proactive is the God-given ability to propel ourselves into life.

 

Talk about how easy or how difficult it is for you to respond to invitations?

 

Comment on how easy or difficult it is for you to take initiative in life?

 

Review the story of the talents in Luke 19: 12-27. What kind of people succeed in the story and what kind of person lost out?

 

What does Hebrews 10: 38-39 say to you personally?

 

Where is God calling you, through this discussion, to be more active? Where will you begin to knock, seek, and ask? Be specific.

[GoldenEagle]

On ‎9‎/‎22‎/‎2016 at 4:53 PM, GoldenEagle said:

Law #5 The Law of Motivation

The Law of Motivation says this: Freedom first, service second.

 

Besides the fear that we will lose love and the fear that people will be angry with us, other false motives keep us from setting boundaries.

 

Which of the following false motives have been behind some of your actions?

A) Fear of loneliness.

B) Thinking that to love means always to say yes.

C) Thinking that good people will always say yes.

D) Trying to overcome the guilt inside and feel good about yourself.

E) Paying back all that you have received.

F) Trying to gain people’s approval, people who may represent your parents, whose approval was withheld.

G) Over identifying with the other person’s loss, and feeling the sadness you think your ‘no’ word would cause them.

 

What life experiences and early relationships helped cause these false motives? We can let God work on the fears, resolve them, and create some healthy boundaries to guard the freedom we were called to. Freedom is one of our treasures.

 

What does 2 Corinthians 9:7 tell us about giving? (KJV version here)

 

What does Romans 12:19 instruct us about revenge? (KJV version here)

 

What does Isaiah 29:13 teach us about fear? (KJV version here)

 

What does Galatians 5:1 teach us about freedom? (KJV version here)

 

What does 1 Corinthians 13 teach us about loving others? (KJV version here)

 

What are your primary motivators? What do you want your motivators to be? What do you need to do in order to change?

 

God bless,
GE

For me personally I have believed B) that to love means always to say yes. And also C) thinking that good people always say yes. Particularly in my marriage and friendships. Sometimes it is important to say no. Understanding my limitations has been key for me. Saying no to the good helps me say yes to the best. Also, this gives other the opportunity to grow as they have to think and do things for themselves.

From 2 Cor. 9:7 tells me that God loves a cheerful giving. That giving is meant to be done out of a grateful heart and not a mandatory thing.

Romans 12:19 tells me that I shouldn't seek revenge and that God is all-powerful as the ultimate judge.

Isaiah 29;13 says that fear of God is taught by men. We should love God with all our hearts and minds. Not simply fear Him because he is God.

Galatians 5:1 tells me God set us free from sin to follow Jesus. We should not seek to submit to our old lives or to slavery to the law.

1 Corinthians 13 tells me that loving God and others is what I should be about. That love should be my primary motivator. All the faith, generosity, sacrifice, and knowledge in the world doesn't mean anything if I can't love others.

I need to work on loving others and understanding others better. With grace and truth as has been the theme of another thread.

God bless,
GE

[GoldenEagle]

Law #10 The Law of Exposure

A boundary is a property line that defines where you begin and end. The most important reason why you need such a line is that you do not exist in a vacuum. You exist in relation to God and others. Your boundaries define you in relation to others. Boundaries are really about relationships and love. The Law of Exposure says that your boundaries need to be made visible to others and communicated to them in relationship. We have boundary problems because of our fears about our relationships.

 

What do these two passages say about the importance of communicating boundaries?

Ephesians 4: 25-26

Ephesians 5: 13-14

 

With whom do you struggle to communicate your boundaries? Why?

 

According to David’s words in Psalm 51:6, what does God want for us?

[Ezra]

2 hours ago, Mary98 said:

I own the Boundaries book and I think it's excellent for secular people.

Very well said, Mary98. 

[GoldenEagle]

3 hours ago, Mary98 said:

 

I think Ezra is correct . We don't really have to create "boundaries " with other Born Again believers because the spirit of God within them is going to guide them into truth . We may have to help with appropriate correction from time to time but that falls into the category of dealing with our imperfect condition.  But we we not supposed to be yoked with unbelievers  so we should not be encountering too many people where boundaries would become necessary. But that's the ideal situation which is light years away from modern Christianity because some of the most prominent preachers, both historical and contemporary, have told us that  many , many folks in the congregations are not genuinely Born Again. And we all know that the churches attract many wolves in sheep's clothing so scripture does tell us that there are wolves out there. But it basically instructs us to have discernment and not to have fellowship with people who don't display the fruits of the spirit. So "boundaries" sort of implies that we still have to deal with those people. I'm not sure that we do. I think we are instructed not to deal with them as Christians.

 

I own the Boundaries book and I think it's excellent for secular people. But I think as Christians we have to learn to stop dealing with and yoking ourselves to people who have frequently demonstrated their lost condition with severe personality disorders and the like.  Because soul ties and messy involvements with unsaved people have a profoundly negative and compromising effect on our walk with God.  

 

1 hour ago, Ezra said:

Very well said, Mary98. 

Hi Mary  

So that I understand what you're saying... You believe: 

1. We don't need boundaries with other Born Again Believers?

2. We should avoid those who are not Born again?

3. We should avoid those with mental disorders?

4. Boundaries are for secular people?

God bless,

GE