Truth Seeker Posted November 21, 2016 Group: Members Followers: 1 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 34 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 41 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/17/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted November 21, 2016 That is pretty broad. So how would you answer the old atheist argument about having sex with your married neighbor? That's not being unloving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truth Seeker Posted November 21, 2016 Group: Members Followers: 1 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 34 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 41 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/17/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted November 21, 2016 And NO I am not just being argumentative or hard to get along with, I am trying to illustrate a point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remnantrob Posted November 21, 2016 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 100 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,029 Content Per Day: 0.15 Reputation: 261 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/25/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/23/1982 Author Share Posted November 21, 2016 6 hours ago, Ezra said: Going to Heaven is not determined by how a Christian lives but by believing on the Lord Jesus Christ and being saved (Acts 16:31). That includes repentance towards God -- a turning away from all sins, idols, and false gods. But we are justified by faith, not faith + works. While I agree that salvation is in Jesus Christ alone, believing on the Lord might need to be broken down a little more. I think about celebrities like Whitney Houston, Anna Nicole Smith and others who were devout Christians. The fruit of their life didn't reveal to me that they had that connection with the Lord but that is to be determined by Him of course. I heard a little something about the founder of the magazine Hustler Larry Flint. At one point in his life around 1977 he became a born again Christian and he even included Christian articles in his magazines. After he was shot the following year he declared himself an atheist. God forbid he died today in that state of mind, would believing on the Lord Jesus Christ back then mean that he will be in Heaven? He's not under the law so one should expect that he will be there. Can John 10:28 be claimed if a person says they will remove themselves(atheist claim)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ezra Posted November 21, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 16 Topic Count: 134 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 8,142 Content Per Day: 2.35 Reputation: 6,612 Days Won: 20 Joined: 11/02/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted November 21, 2016 2 hours ago, inchrist said: The rest of the Mosaic Law is still in full force until heaven and earth passes away. If this is true, then the epistle to the Hebrews is false. And if the epistle is true (which it is) then your state is false, misleading, and detrimental to Christianity. 1 hour ago, Remnantrob said: I think about celebrities like Whitney Houston, Anna Nicole Smith and others who were devout Christians. The fruit of their life didn't reveal to me that they had that connection with the Lord but that is to be determined by Him of course. We are not to be assessing the salvation of others. Rather, asking ourselves, exactly what is the Gospel as revealed in Scripture? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ezra Posted November 21, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 16 Topic Count: 134 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 8,142 Content Per Day: 2.35 Reputation: 6,612 Days Won: 20 Joined: 11/02/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted November 21, 2016 3 hours ago, inchrist said: "one jot or tittle of the Mosaic Law, shall in no wise pass away until heaven and earth passes away." There's a big difference between the immutability of Scripture (as stated above), and the replacement of the Old Covenant with the New Covenant. So, the jots and the tittles of Scripture will remain inviolate, but the application of the truth must be made in view of the New Covenant. Those who despise the New Covenant despise the finished work of Christ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truth Seeker Posted November 21, 2016 Group: Members Followers: 1 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 34 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 41 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/17/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted November 21, 2016 12 hours ago, Ezra said: Paul was referring to the Law of Moses (the Old Covenant). Going to Heaven is not determined by how a Christian lives but by believing on the Lord Jesus Christ and being saved (Acts 16:31). That includes repentance towards God -- a turning away from all sins, idols, and false gods. But we are justified by faith, not faith + works. Ezra, Was Paul referring to the written law or the oral law or was he referring to a principal such as the law of sin and death and how do you know? You mentioned turning away from all sins but you never answered my question about what specifically are sins so how is a person supposed to turn away from sin if there is no clear definition of what is sin and what is not sin? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ezra Posted November 21, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 16 Topic Count: 134 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 8,142 Content Per Day: 2.35 Reputation: 6,612 Days Won: 20 Joined: 11/02/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted November 21, 2016 1 hour ago, Truth Seeker said: Was Paul referring to the written law or the oral law or was he referring to a principal such as the law of sin and death and how do you know? When Paul discusses the Law and its application to the Christians, he is invariably referring to the written Law of Moses in the Torah, and in particular to the outward observances. The so-called oral law was simply the interpretation of the rabbis, and did not have the force or authority of Scripture (hence called "the tradition of the elders"). "The law of sin and death" is more universal and came into effect immediately after Adam sinned. It simply means that the consequences ("wages") of sin are death (physical and eternal). As to "how do you know", simply examine the context. The word "Law" has several meanings, and the context determines the meaning. There are times when the entire Old Testament is called "the Law". 1 hour ago, Truth Seeker said: ...there is no clear definition of what is sin and what is not sin... That is simply not true. "Sin is the transgression of the Law" (meaning the Ten Commandments) and "whatsoever is not of faith is sin". While the Ten Commandments give the appearance of simply the moral Law of God, Christ gave them their full force as the spiritual Law of God (in the Sermon on the Mount). In brief, anything and everything which is contrary to the character of God is sin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truth Seeker Posted November 21, 2016 Group: Members Followers: 1 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 34 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 41 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/17/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted November 21, 2016 Wait wait wait You said that when Paul discusses the Law he is invariably referring to the law of Moses (which I disagree with) then you say that sin is the transgression of the law and you change it to the ten commandments. Yes I realize that the second quote was not Paul but how do you arbitrarily interchange the meaning of the law? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truth Seeker Posted November 21, 2016 Group: Members Followers: 1 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 34 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 41 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/17/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted November 21, 2016 I.E. Romans 7:21New International Version (NIV) 21 So I find this law at work: Although I want to do good, evil is right there with me. Obviously Paul is not talking about the Torah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ezra Posted November 22, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 16 Topic Count: 134 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 8,142 Content Per Day: 2.35 Reputation: 6,612 Days Won: 20 Joined: 11/02/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted November 22, 2016 2 hours ago, Ezra said: The word "Law" has several meanings, and the context determines the meaning. Did you read this? CONTEXT determines the meaning. 1 hour ago, Truth Seeker said: but how do you arbitrarily interchange the meaning of the law? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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