QUESTIONS concerning 1Cor.15 & 1Thes.4

[Marcus O'Reillius]

1 minute ago, OneLight said:

I am curios, when do you believe Gods wrath begins?

Not when the wicked say it is coming.

I think it comes with the first Trumpet - after the Scroll has been unsealed.
The Scroll, which can only be unsealed by Jesus, is where I also think the desolations which have been decreed (Dan 9:26) are stored until they go forth.

I do compare the fire and blood elements of this desolation - which has been decreed - to the Day of the Lord's Wrath's "fire, blood, and smoke" in the OT which befalls (natural, national) Israel.

[Marcus O'Reillius]

21 hours ago, inchrist said:

the Tares are burnt at Armageddon and the wheat are taken to jerusalem being the barn....

Said without any Scriptural support at all as is demanded by this poster towards anyone else.

[Marcus O'Reillius]

19 hours ago, Salty said:

Those statements include phrases often used by pre-trib rapture folks, like "blessed hope" from Titus 2:13, etc., but it does not signify we are going to be raptured to Heaven.

No, those statements of mine about the statements for the Great Multitude do show our blessed hope.

The evidence that they in Heaven is what you didn't read.
The statements that they will administer to the Lord also do not dictate your supposition - that we do it on the earth in Jerusalem.

What Ezekiel 44:15 says is that Levites "who kept charge of My sanctuary when the sons of Israel went astray from Me, shall come near to Me to minister to Me; and they shall stand before Me to offer Me the fat and the blood,” ~ That is a Millennium passage, and it describes two sets of Levite Priests who lived before - who will live again... which is not something that can happen during the Church Age when we have but one life to life: Heb 9:27.

[Marcus O'Reillius]

19 hours ago, Salty said:

Do you really expect me to respond to all that, because it's irrelevant to what I showed about Revelation 7 and the "great multitude". Since you failed to address the specific verses I quoted from Rev.7,

If you do not read another's explanation to put the relevant quoted material in context - then you cannot say I failed to address your specific allegation that Revelation 7:9-17 is Millennium in its timeframe.

I tried to break it down for you, but you won't respond in return.  Merely repeating the initial charge is hardly debate.

[Marcus O'Reillius]

24 minutes ago, OneLight said:

I am curios, when do you believe Gods wrath begins?

Now I am curious.  When do you believe God's Wrath begins?

[OneLight]

1 minute ago, Marcus O'Reillius said:

Said without any Scriptural support at all as is demanded by this poster towards anyone else.

Demanded?  That is a pretty heavy handed attitude of authority, wouldn't you say? 

Instead of demanding people comply to your parameters, why not consider the following scripture on how to deal with times when people get under your skin ...

You have a choice, as seen in Galatians 5:16-26

I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.

Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law. And those who are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. Let us not become conceited, provoking one another, envying one another.

One way that helped me overcome unpleasant feelings toward others was to consider the following.

2 Peter 1:5-11

But also for this very reason, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness, to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love. For if these things are yours and abound, you will be neither barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness, and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his old sins.

Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your call and election sure, for if you do these things you will never stumble; for so an entrance will be supplied to you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

[Marcus O'Reillius]

12 minutes ago, OneLight said:

Demanded?  That is a pretty heavy handed attitude of authority, wouldn't you say? 

When faced with continual attack by various other adherents of different eschatological schools for absolute proof to exact wording and then being mocked because prophecy rarely ever says how something will be accomplished and never spells out everything that will happen in one succinct summation - which would dispel 95% of the various ways people do put the end-times together as they try to sort out the complex and seemingly contradictory verses and passages - and  - while you could say it's heavy handed, it's an apt defense when I have been charged with heresy, false teaching, and advancing Satan's cause by those same people who do not agree with me.

Ultimately, I know what other people think does not change the truth. 
As I am just seeking the truth, I also know they, like me, do not necessarily possess it.

As it is, I am willing to be sharpened, but all too often, especially with this poster; I just get attacked without the love we should show one another.  So when I say he demands, that is my opinion of his attacks upon me. 

Edited December 19, 2016 by Marcus O'Reillius

[OneLight]

13 minutes ago, Marcus O'Reillius said:

Now I am curious.  When do you believe God's Wrath begins?

The first time the term wrath is mentioned in Revelation is in Revelation 6:16 when we read about the wrath of the Lamb after the 6th seal is opened.

and said to the mountains and rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of Him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb!

Then we read in Revelation 15 when the bowls are said to be completing the wrath of God.  I believe His wrath begins with the 6th seal, but grow exponentially worse from one form of deployment to the other.  If sinners understand the time of His wrath, there can be no denial if it is true or not, otherwise, we would of been told that the time of His wrath had not begun.

[OneLight]

4 minutes ago, Marcus O'Reillius said:

When faced with continual attack by various other adherents of different eschatological schools for absolute proof to exact wording and then being mocked because prophecy rarely ever says how something will be accomplished and never spells out everything that will happen in one succinct summation - which would dispel 95% of the various ways people do put the end-times together as they try to sort out the complex and seemingly contradictory verses and passages - and  - while you could say it's heavy handed, it's an apt defense when I have been charged with heresy, false teaching, and advancing Satan's cause by those same people who do not agree with me.

Ultimately, I know what other people think does not change the truth. 
As I am just seeking the truth, I also know they, like me, do not necessarily possess it.

As it is, I am willing to be sharpened, but all too often, especially with this poster; I just get attacked without the love we should show one another.  So when I say he demands, that is my opinion of his attacks upon me. 

I do understand the frustration you speak of.  I felt it many times.  Then, by grace, I realized that nobody has it right, period.  Prophecy, when discussed, would be better received when there are no absolutes involved in ones understanding of those passages because there are no proofs to back up such a claim.  All we can do is allow Him to open our eyes in accordance to how well we see Him.  Some will see more, others less, depending on where they are in Him (infancy or maturity).

Still, no matter many time we are attacked, or for what reason, if we cannot reply in love with patience, then we should back off until we can.  We are not here to prove anything, but to share Christ.

[Marcus O'Reillius]

3 minutes ago, OneLight said:

The first time the term wrath is mentioned in Revelation is in Revelation 6:16 when we read about the wrath of the Lamb after the 6th seal is opened.

True: that is the first use of the term.

And John truthfully reports what they say.
But ~ are the wicked - who don't "get" God right, ever - are they right about what God is about to do when the sun/moon/star event shakes them up?

As I read the parallel account to the Seal/Scroll chronology - the broad overview to the end-times - in its detailed, parallel account in Revelation chapters 13-16 --

In chapter 14, after the midpoint abomination of the talking image - we see:

• 1-5 Jesus with the 144,000 of the sixth Seal standing on Mount Zion.
• 7-12 Three Angels who 1.) Complete the Gospel Command of Mt 24:14 and 2.) Warn the wicked that they will perish.
• 13 An announcement.
• 14-16 The Harvest.
• 17-20 God's Wrath involving blood and fire - which also come with the first Trumpet - IAW Rev 8:7.

In this linear narrative spelling out a timeline series of events (the announcement is not an event per se) the wicked will "know" God's Wrath is coming.

My point:
At the time of the end, when Jesus is coming - He is NOT coming for them NEXT.
The wicked "know" God's Wrath is coming, and it will come.

However, and moreover! ~ God does not reveal to John ANY desolation coincident with the sixth Seal which affects the world like the Trumpet Judgments which follow the Harvest.

So the statement that the wicked make is not necessarily true.  It is only true that they say that at that particular time.
I always consider who is speaking when considering what is in the Bible.  Not all sources are the same.