BobRyan Posted September 4, 2017 Group: Senior Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 711 Content Per Day: 0.28 Reputation: 266 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/12/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted September 4, 2017 his is what the Lord says: “Maintain justice and do what is right,for my salvation is close at hand and my righteousness will soon be revealed.2 Blessed is the one who does this— the person who holds it fast,who keeps the Sabbath without desecrating it, and keeps their hands from doing any evil.” 3 Let no foreigner who is bound to the Lord say, “The Lord will surely exclude me from his people.”And let no eunuch complain, “I am only a dry tree.” 4 For this is what the Lord says: “To the eunuchs who keep my Sabbaths, who choose what pleases me and hold fast to my covenant—5 to them I will give within my temple and its walls a memorial and a name better than sons and daughters;I will give them an everlasting name that will endure forever.6 And foreigners who bind themselves to the Lord to minister to him,to love the name of the Lord, and to be his servants,all who keep the Sabbath without desecrating it and who hold fast to my covenant—7 these I will bring to my holy mountain and give them joy in my house of prayer.Their burnt offerings and sacrifices will be accepted on my altar;for my house will be called a house of prayer for all nations.”8 The Sovereign Lord declares— he who gathers the exiles of Israel:“I will gather still others to them besides those already gathered.” 7 hours ago, shiloh357 said: That is talking about those who converted to the Jewish religion. It is not a commandment to all Gentiles for all time to observe the Sabbath day. Nonsense. The one true religion of the OT - worshiping the One True God - creator of heaven and Earth .. is the one given to Adam, Noah, Abraham, Moses.. That religion was for "all nations" -- God's house a house of prayer for "all nations" ... But circumcision was only for Jews who as Priests and Evangelists of God were called to evangelize the world "all the ends of the Earth". Thus gentiles were supposed to keep the Bible Sabbath ... the TEN Commandments.. and also were not to take God's name in vain etc. The fact that they did not become circumcised Jews did not change that obligation -- as even the majority of pro-Sunday scholars today will admit. 7 hours ago, shiloh357 said: I am not refuting that. I am refuting your sloppy handling of Scripture. The Sabbath is for man. Wrong - it is for 'mankind' -- there is no such thing as "women were told not to keep Sabbath in the OT" -- and we all know it. Bible details matter. 7 hours ago, shiloh357 said: But the Sabbath day was commanded solely to Israel. No more than the NEW Covenant was commanded solely for Israel. Read Jeremiah 31:31-33 7 hours ago, shiloh357 said: You can trust in your sin-stained observance of the Sabbath day. I will trust in the work of Jesus on the cross and I will rest in Him. Sabbath was given to mankind BEFORE Sin entered the World - Genesis 2:1-3 Exodus 20:11 Your attack on the Ten Commandments does not stand up to a close review of scripture. Even Christ condemns it in Mathew 5 and in Mark 7:6-13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobRyan Posted September 4, 2017 Group: Senior Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 711 Content Per Day: 0.28 Reputation: 266 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/12/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted September 4, 2017 On 11/22/2016 at 4:49 PM, Walter and Deborah said: Is there anyone that keeps The Sabbath Day Holy, from Sunset on the 6th.Day/Friday until The ending of The 7th. Day at Sunset, on Saturday by The Gregorian Calendar. If so being on one accord for that event to happen, We want to thank God for your Faith in doing just that as a start to perfection. Every Sabbath Count me in! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobRyan Posted September 4, 2017 Group: Senior Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 711 Content Per Day: 0.28 Reputation: 266 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/12/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted September 4, 2017 16 minutes ago, Abdicate said: I don't hold one day greater than any other. I grew up going to church on Sundays (twice) and Wednesdays too. This is born out of tradition. It's only be recently I've been trying to sort out when Jesus died and rose again. I made a startling discovery - Jesus didn't rise on the "first [day] of the week" but on the Sabbath. I found this out when I went to the original Greek and the word is Sabbaton - Sabbath. There's a whole thread dedicated to this I'm sure, but here's just one verse: Matthew 28:1 (KJV) In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre. Matthew 28:1 (YLT) And on the eve of the sabbaths, at the dawn, toward the first of the sabbaths, came Mary the Magdalene, and the other Mary, to see the sepulchre, Throughout the New Testament, sabbaton is translated Sabbath except and only when it talks about Jesus' resurrection. I find that very odd. Young's Literal Translation shows what's going on. Passover is a Sabbath (Lev 23:6-7) and according to the word of God, after this Sabbath, you have to start counting seven Sabbaths. YLT version shows a time reference, the first of the sabbaths, which is word for word accurate from the Greek. Leviticus 23:15 (KJV) And ye shall count unto you from the morrow after the sabbath, from the day that ye brought the sheaf of the wave offering; seven sabbaths shall be complete: So one of the greatest deception is that Jesus rose on the Sabbath, not Sunday. To perpetuate the lie, even the dictionaries state sabbaton can mean "week"... how so I ask because Greek has a word for week, which never appears in the word of God. Finally, no Greek outside of the word of God translated ever makes sabbaton Sunday. It's against all understanding because sabbaton comes from Hebrew and means Sabbath. This issue never appears in Greek until after 100 AD. If anyone has made it this far in my comment, I urge you to do your own homework. It settles a lot of discussions about Jesus and elevates the Sabbath to how God intended it from before the Law was written down when He ceased servile work on the seventh day. It's amazing to me how many of man's traditions have affected the translations. The engineer - Harold Camping tried out that misread of Mathew 28 only to be reminded that the reason actual Bible scholars don't fall for that is that statements like "I fast twice a week" would get munged into "I fast twice a Sabbath" using Camping's misread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobRyan Posted September 4, 2017 Group: Senior Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 711 Content Per Day: 0.28 Reputation: 266 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/12/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted September 4, 2017 Until then.. the objective unbiased Bible student - will notice this -- Paul never claims the church met every week-day-1 for worship. Not ever. But the NT scripture DOES claim they met EVERY Sabbath in the synagogues to hear Gospel preaching... BOTH Jews AND Gentiles -- Acts 18:4. 7 hours ago, shiloh357 said: Yes, they did. But that is not a doctrine. They also met in homes, by that time, as well. When you look at the greetings Paul gives in end of His epistles, they are to households. The Church at Rome actually met in five different homes. And they probably met more often than we do. [/quote] No text says they met every week-day-1. The only "every worship day" statement we have in the NT is "every Sabbath" in Acts 18:4 and in Acts 15 this is used as the "solution" for the gentile Christian vs Jewish Christian controversy. The point remains. 7 hours ago, shiloh357 said: Sabbath isn't a day of worship, it is a day of rest. So, it is possible to meet for worship on a day that isn't the Sabbath because every day is a day of worship, but only day of the week was the Sabbath. Until you read the actual Bible. In Lev 23 we are minded that it is a "day of Holy Convocation" And in Isaiah 66:23 "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND Come before Me to worship" Bible details matter. 7 hours ago, shiloh357 said: Again, in none of that is there a commandment to the Church to keep the Sabbath. Simply citing historical occurrences of Sabbath keeping, doesn't constitute a doctrine of Sabbath observance. The "Command" to keep Sabbath for all eternity after the cross was already shown in Isaiah 66:23 The "Command" that the saints "KEEP the Commandments" is in 1 Cor 7:19 The "Command" to retain the UNIT of LAW - the TEN commandments is seen in Eph 6:2 where the 5th Commandment is the "FIRST Commandment" in that still valid unit of TEN - "with a promise" The "command" to KEEP the Commandments of God - as including the TEN Commandments -- is confessed even by the majority of pro-Sunday Scholars who agree that the TEN are included in the New Covenant LAW of God written on the heart and mind.. Jeremiah 31:31-33 and it "unchanged" in the NT -- Hebrew 8:6-10 7 hours ago, shiloh357 said: Within 25-30 years after the death of John, Christians were meeting on the first day of the week, like it or not. Some did -- some did not. They had no pope in the 2nd and 3rd centuries. Savage wolves had already come in - just as Paul predicted Acts 20:28-33New American Standard Bible (NASB) 29 I know that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock; 30 and from among your own selves men will arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away the disciples after them. 31 Therefore be on the alert, remembering that night and day for a period of three years I did not cease to admonish each one with tears. 32 And now I commend you to God and to the word of His grace, which is able to build you up and to give you the inheritance among all those who are sanctified. 33 I have coveted no one’s silver or gold or clothes. New American Standard Bible (NASB) Copyright © 1960, 1962, 1963, 1968, 1971, 1972, 1973, 1975, 1977, 1995 by The Lockman Foundation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobRyan Posted September 4, 2017 Group: Senior Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 711 Content Per Day: 0.28 Reputation: 266 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/12/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted September 4, 2017 In the NT -- not one "do not take God's name in vain" quote -- yet it still applies to all the saints because ALL TEN of the TEN Commandments apply under the NEW Covenant - as even the pro-Sunday scholars admit. In the NT - we have the EXAMPLE in Acts 17:11 of "Sola Scriptura" but not the outright "commandment" -- we are to follow that example. (Though many in the RCC and EOC would object to such a doctrine) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobRyan Posted September 5, 2017 Group: Senior Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 711 Content Per Day: 0.28 Reputation: 266 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/12/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted September 5, 2017 (edited) 21 hours ago, Abdicate said: Another mistranslation... Luke 18:12 (KJV) I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess. I fast twice the Sabbath - are there not 3 meals a day... There is not a single example in all of scripture where "eating every day" is called "fasting". And we both know it. And there is no "are there not three meals in the day" text -- nor is eating two meals or one meal every day - called fasting in the Bible. As I said before 22 hours ago, BobRyan said: The engineer - Harold Camping tried out that misread of Mathew 28 only to be reminded that the reason actual Bible scholars don't fall for that is that statements like "I fast twice a week" would get munged into "I fast twice a Sabbath" using Camping's misread. Edited September 5, 2017 by BobRyan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobRyan Posted September 5, 2017 Group: Senior Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 711 Content Per Day: 0.28 Reputation: 266 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/12/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted September 5, 2017 (edited) On 9/4/2017 at 10:42 AM, BobRyan said: The engineer - Harold Camping tried out that misread of Mathew 28 only to be reminded that the reason actual Bible scholars don't fall for that is that statements like "I fast twice a week" would get munged into "I fast twice a Sabbath" using Camping's misread. 12 hours ago, Abdicate said: LOL I just quoted you one about fasting, not eating, twice a day... wow... I did not see you "quote" me. Unless you are quoting my statment that it is nonsense to say "fast twice a day" since in the Bible "eating every day" is not called "fasting". The point remains. Edited September 5, 2017 by BobRyan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobRyan Posted September 5, 2017 Group: Senior Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 711 Content Per Day: 0.28 Reputation: 266 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/12/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted September 5, 2017 21 hours ago, Abdicate said: P.S. I don't know who you're talking about, and it doesn't matter to be, because I have multiple dictionaries and friends that are Greeks and yet not Christians influenced by the traditions of men. nonChristian Greeks that do not understand KOINE Greek (the language of the NT) is not the same as Bible scholar that does. Imagine reading an ancient 1500 year old English text for example. Well I speak modern English and read it - but I cannot make heads or tails out of the very ancient English. Sticking with Christian Bible scholars on this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobRyan Posted September 5, 2017 Group: Senior Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 711 Content Per Day: 0.28 Reputation: 266 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/12/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted September 5, 2017 On 9/4/2017 at 10:42 AM, BobRyan said: The engineer - Harold Camping tried out that misread of Mathew 28 only to be reminded that the reason actual Bible scholars don't fall for that is that statements like "I fast twice a week" would get munged into "I fast twice a Sabbath" using Camping's misread. 12 hours ago, Abdicate said: LOL I just quoted you one about fasting, not eating, twice a day... wow... I did not see you "quote" me. Unless you are quoting my statment that it is nonsense to say "fast twice a day" since in the Bible "eating every day" is not called "fasting". 1 hour ago, Abdicate said: Not surprising... It is "a little surprising" given your own claim to have been quoting me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobRyan Posted September 5, 2017 Group: Senior Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 711 Content Per Day: 0.28 Reputation: 266 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/12/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted September 5, 2017 1 hour ago, Abdicate said: As I said... traditions of men... good luck with it. You said you are arguing for non-Christian Greeks speaking modern Greek... over actual Bible Scholars who in fact can read the Koine Greek of the NT - when it comes to wanting to know what the Christian New Testament Koine Greek writers were saying. I prefer the Christians.. and the actual Koine Greek since that is what the text is. You have free will - you can go with all the nonChristians you wish in your preferences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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