Maybe some Protestants/Non-Catholics can answer......

[TheMatrixHasU71]

On ‎12‎/‎19‎/‎2016 at 1:33 PM, Hoddie said:

So who were these men you speak of? They surely couldn't have been Protestant since Protestantism didn't come into exsistance until the 16th century.

 

 

Because you have not! By using your "Bible Alone" way of belief, you have not shown how you received your Canon of Scripture. Don't know why "you" aren't listening!

I have already explained it to you. GOD gave us the canon and you persist in giving the glory to men alone.

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Say's who?

Regarding the Nicean council's choosing of the canon, and what books get left out, I told you what standards they used. Good golly man just read your history!!!

The books that got left out were so because they were late books, or their authorship could not be determined, or their teachings could not hold up against the Old Testament. Wisdom of solomon was a good example of that last, as there are a few verses that preach reincarnation. In those days the Greeks held a belief in the transmigration of souls, a belief that was adopted by many Hellenised Jews, including whomever wrote the Wisdom of Solomon (certainly wasn't Solomon himself)

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Then maybe you can explain to me what is the "pillar and foundation of truth" in 1Tim.3:13?

　

 

I deny it because it is un-biblical, so you should too. No where does Scripture state that the "Bible alone" is all we need for a sole rule of faith. If you disagree, show me in the Bible where it says, SOLA SCRIPTURA, only the Bible.

 

2Thes 2:15, "Therefore brethren, stand fast, and hold the TRADITIONS which ye have been taught, whether by WORD, or our Epistle'. This verse is telling you to honor the traditions which have been handed down by word of mouth from generation to generation."

Translation: Sacred Scripture and Sacred Traditions equals the 'whole' word of God.

 

Lol! First off, I'm not your "sistah", I'm a man. Secondly, I seek no approval from you or anyone else for that matter when it comes to my beliefs. And as far as you beleiving in the bible alone, and if any teachings that are not in the bible you/we will have nothing to do with them, how about these?

1.Modern Christian pastors standard practice of REmarrying divorced Christians previously joined by God in a Christian ceremony.

Wrongheaded save for those who divorced due to infidelity or abuse

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2. The Sinners Prayer

Though not specifically in the bible the tenets behind it are perfectly scriptural.

Isaiah 64:6

64:6  But we are all as an unclean thing (including Mary herself), and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.

Luke 12:8   Also I say unto you, Whosoever shall confess me before men, him shall the Son of man also confess before the angels of God:

Romans 10:9   That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

Romans 10:10   For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

 

BTW here you are really just getting excessively nitpicky

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3. Bible only Christian churches objections to alcohol and dancing.

There is nothing in the bible against alcohol and unrelated men and women should not dance together.

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4. The Altar Call

5. Bowing ones head and closing of eyes when praying. (not that it is a bad thing)

Again, cut with the nitpicking. There is nothing wrong with either of these nor so they have pagan origins

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6. Scripture interprets Scripture.

Umm yeah it does......New Testament interprets the old. NOWHERE in the bible are we called upon to use anything else to interpret scripture but by Scripture and the Holy Ghost

ALL SCRIPTURE is given under inspiration of God......Not Scripture and tradition. You keep saying Chapter and Verse please but I keep asking you chapter and verse to support your position. And you wont give it to me.

YES I am well aware of what you posted about "tradition" but I already explained that in another post. And you still keep holding onto your own false ideas. I told you already that the "tradition" was the Old Testament or the gospels and epistles that WE HAVE TODAY being shared orally bu visits from the apostles.

ORAL TEACHIN IS NO DIFFERENT FROM SCRIPTURE. The Oral may have differed a bit merely in form, but none of the actual principles taught in the gospels or Epistles would have been different in any way.

Sorry I called you sister but someone else called you a girl

 

I wish I could write more but have little time. I don't have the I-net at home and don't like spending much time at the library

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Please show a Chapter and verse where these six items are in the bible. If you cannot, are you willing to dismiss them as teachings not of the bible, and not to be practiced?

 

Still wish to hold to that?

 

All Scripture what, as a sole rule of faith? Chapter and verse please. And please spare me the quoting of 2 Timothy 3:16–17, for nowhere does it claim Scripture is sufficient as a rule of faith. Because an examination of the verse in context shows that it doesn’t claim that at all; it only claims Scripture is "profitable" (Greek: ophelimos) that is, helpful. Many things can be profitable for moving one toward a goal, without being sufficient in getting one to the goal. Notice that the passage nowhere even hints that Scripture is "sufficient"—which is, of course, exactly what Protestants think the passage means.

The context of 2 Timothy 3:16–17 is Paul laying down a guideline for Timothy to make use of Scripture "and tradition" in his ministry as a bishop. Paul says, "But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them; and that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. All Scripture is given by inspiration of God (Greek: theopneustos = "God-breathed"), and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works" (2 Tim. 3:14–17). In verse 14, Timothy is initially exhorted to hold to the oral teachings—the traditions—that he received from the apostle Paul. This echoes Paul’s reminder of the value of oral tradition in 1:13–14, "Follow the pattern of the sound words which you have heard from me, in the faith and love which are in Christ Jesus; guard the truth that has been entrusted to you by the Holy Spirit who dwells within us" (RSV), and ". . . what you have heard from me before many witnesses entrust to faithful men who will be able to teach others also" (2:2). Here Paul refers exclusively to oral teaching and reminds Timothy to follow that as the "pattern" for his own teaching (1:13). Only after this is Scripture mentioned as "profitable" for Timothy’s ministry.

　

Peace

 

Edited December 22, 2016 by TheMatrixHasU71

[simplejeff]

On 12/20/2016 at 2:19 PM, TheMatrixHasU71 said:

I have already explained it to you. GOD gave us the canon and you persist in giving the glory to men alone.

This seems simple and true enough.   YHWH HIMSELF GUARDS HIS WORD.   That's simply what I always believed, and HE HAS PROVED TRUE.   (without even needing to know the fallible and sinful history of men, ever;  simply knowing that men in the flesh/ carnal/  are fallible and sinful liars as written in Scripture, and not to trust men/ the flesh/ ever,  was a necessary part of TRUSTING YHWH (GOD) instead of men; and YHWH IS ALWAYS TRUTHFUL AND FAITHFUL without fault, without spot, without wrinkle, without sin (unlike men) ).

[Hoddie]

On Tuesday, December 20, 2016 at 0:19 PM, TheMatrixHasU71 said:

I have already explained it to you. GOD gave us the canon and you persist in giving the glory to men alone.

You may have tried to explain it to me with your fallible opinion, but thats not what I asked. Back on page four, you said that the bible holds all truth, and the bible alone is all one needs.... remember? I asked you to show me using your "bible alone" where in your bible does it say God gave us the Canon, and to whom did He give it too? Now if you can't, just admit it.

Regarding the Nicean council's choosing of the canon, and what books get left out, I told you what standards they used.

Thats right....... "YOU" told me. Show me where in Scripture where it shows it. You are the sola scripturists, not me.

Good golly man just read your history!!!

I have, and I know the history, right now I'm just getting your input. Very soon I will show you what history really does have to say about it.

The books that got left out were so because they were late books, or their authorship could not be determined, or their teachings could not hold up against the Old Testament.

Where in Scripture doe it say this?

Wisdom of solomon was a good example of that last, as there are a few verses that preach reincarnation. In those days the Greeks held a belief in the transmigration of souls, a belief that was adopted by many Hellenised Jews, including whomever wrote the Wisdom of Solomon (certainly wasn't Solomon himself)

Is this just your personal fallible opinion, or can you back it up? You being a sola scripturists, can you back it up with Scripture? Historical documentation?

Are you going to tell me what Scripture say's is the Pillar and foundation of truth?

　

Peace

[Hoddie]

On Tuesday, December 20, 2016 at 0:19 PM, TheMatrixHasU71 said:

Wrongheaded save for those who divorced due to infidelity or abuse

So in other words, you cant find it in the bible. So if you can't Matrix, and you being a sola scripturists and all, must adimt it is unbiblical, correct? So if it is not biblical, it must be a tradition of man! (lower case t) Right? One thing I will say is that I don't ever recall seeing in Scriptue a divorced Christian being remarried by the clergy, have you? As a matter of fact... I recall Jesus commanding the complete opposite. Mk.10:9-12. And lets not forget Lk.16:18 either.

As a matter of fact Matrix, I don't recall it being allowed in all of Christian history. History does show however that all Protestant denominations used to be against it including your very own reformers in the 16th c. (except for Henry the 8th) So you see, it seems that 99.9 % of all non-Catholic sects are condoning this "unbiblical" practice... mocking the very words of Jesus in the passages I provided. So guess the question is Matrix, does your church go against what Jesus taught? Did Jesus' teachings change? Dosen't Scripture tell us Jesus' Gospel cannot change? What is it? I'll tell ya what I think.... in Heb.13:8-9 it says.. "Jesus is the same yesterday and today and forever. Do not be carried away by all strange teachings." When did your church get carried away by strange teachings?

Though not specifically in the bible the tenets behind it are perfectly scriptural.

Hold on now firecracker..... What happened to if it ain't in the bible it must be disguarded??? Are you saying that some things don't have to be in the bible to be practiced? I thinks that called "traditions of man"!! So what is it Matrix, is it the bible alone or not?? Now as far as the Sinners Prayer goes, and in the passages you provided, I do not see the words...

" Dear God in heaven, I come to you in the name of Jesus. I acknowledge to You that I am a sinner, and I am sorry for my sins and the life that I have lived; I need your forgiveness.I believe that your only begotten Son Jesus Christ shed His precious blood on the cross at Calvary and died for my sins, and I am now willing to turn from my sin.You said in Your Holy Word, Romans 10:9 that if we confess the Lord our God and believe in our hearts that God raised Jesus from the dead, we shall be saved.

Right now I confess Jesus as the Lord of my soul. With my heart, I believe that God raised Jesus from the dead. This very moment I accept Jesus Christ as my own personal Savior and according to His Word, right now I am saved.Thank you Jesus for your unlimited grace which has saved me from my sins. I thank you Jesus that your grace never leads to license, but rather it always leads to repentance. Therefore Lord Jesus transform my life so that I may bring glory and honor to you alone and not to myself.Thank you Jesus for dying for me and giving me eternal life. AMEN."

Now I'm not saying its a prayer that shouldn't be prayed, I'm just saying its not in Scripture... i.e. a tradition of man.

BTW here you are really just getting excessively nitpicky

Really? Are you saying then that sometimes traditions of man are acceptable? Wow.... what happened to Sola Scriptura?? You got me confused, are you a sola scripturists (if it aint in the bible...forget about it) or not?

There is nothing in the bible against alcohol and unrelated men and women should not dance together.

Then why are there thousands of Protestant/ non-Catholic sects that teach alcohol should be avoided at all costs? Whos got it right, and who does not? And let us not forget what Jesus Himself said in Matt.26:2

As far as dancing goes... where in Scripture does it say dancing with unrelated men and women is a sin, and should be avoided? Have you never danced with anyone other than your brother or sister, or your Mom and Dad for that matter? If you are married, did you never dance with him or her before you were married? If you didn't, I got a word for that... weird! Anyhoo, if that is the case, there is a dance I would definetly avoid! (Unless one is okay with marrying their relatives) Hmm..., why does the tune 'dueling banjos' come to mind? (just kiddin.)

Again, cut with the nitpicking. There is nothing wrong with either of these nor so they have pagan origins

Translation............. The Altar Call, and bowing ones head during prayer "is unbiblical", (do you even have an altar in you church?) and is a tradition of man. Besides Matrix, where did I say they were of Pagan origin? Thats a non-Catholic thing.

Umm yeah it does......New Testament interprets the old. NOWHERE in the bible are we called upon to use anything else to interpret scripture but by Scripture and the Holy Ghost

Then you being a sola scripturists should have no problem showing the Book, Chapter, and verse where it say's the New Testament interprets the Old. Or are you depending on the traditions of man? (again)

ALL SCRIPTURE is given under inspiration of God......Not Scripture and tradition. You keep saying Chapter and Verse please but I keep asking you chapter and verse to support your position. And you wont give it to me.

Thats because I don't adhere to the unbiblical doctrine of Sola Scriptura. (Bible Alone) I beleive in the "whole" word of God... Sacred Scripture and Sacred Traditions! So I ask again, where in Scripture does it say that the 'Bible Alone' is sufficient as a sole rule of faith?

YES I am well aware of what you posted about "tradition" but I already explained that in another post. And you still keep holding onto your own false ideas. I told you already that the "tradition" was the Old Testament or the gospels and epistles that WE HAVE TODAY being shared orally bu visits from the apostles.

Hmmm.... I'm not sure you are.(well aware)  If this is what you truley beleive, then let me ask you....do you beleive the Bible canon is necessary for our salvation?

ORAL TEACHIN IS NO DIFFERENT FROM SCRIPTURE. The Oral may have differed a bit merely in form, but none of the actual principles taught in the gospels or Epistles would have been different in any way.

Says who?

Sorry I called you sister but someone else called you a girl

It's all cool.

Peace

[Ezra]

2 hours ago, Hoddie said:

Are you going to tell me what Scripture say's is the Pillar and foundation of truth?

Whatever it is, it is NOT the RCC or the EOC.  And that is the PERSONAL, FALLIBLE OPINION of millions of non-Catholics. Non-Catholics do not claim infallibility, but they certainly reject the infallibility of the Magisterium. Why?   Because it has been the source of false doctrine for hundreds of years.

[Hoddie]

On Wednesday, December 21, 2016 at 2:12 PM, simplejeff said:

This seems simple and true enough.   YHWH HIMSELF GUARDS HIS WORD.   That's simply what I always believed, and HE HAS PROVED TRUE.   (without even needing to know the fallible and sinful history of men, ever;  simply knowing that men in the flesh/ carnal/  are fallible and sinful liars as written in Scripture, and not to trust men/ the flesh/ ever,  was a necessary part of TRUSTING YHWH (GOD) instead of men; and YHWH IS ALWAYS TRUTHFUL AND FAITHFUL without fault, without spot, without wrinkle, without sin (unlike men) ).

So.... do you consider your interpretations of Scripture infallible?

[Hoddie]

2 minutes ago, Ezra said:

Whatever it is, it is NOT the RCC or the EOC.  And that is the PERSONAL, FALLIBLE OPINION of millions of non-Catholics. Non-Catholics do not claim infallibility, but they certainly reject the infallibility of the Magisterium. Why?   Because it has been the source of false doctrine for hundreds of years.

And thank you Erza for admitting that all these "Personal, and Fallible" opinons and interpretations  (all claiming to hold the truth, and rejecting God's true Church) of millions of differnt non-Catholics are subject subject to error. (yours included)

Thank you for your support!

Merry Christmas

[Ezra]

5 minutes ago, Hoddie said:

(yours included)

Not mine.  My opinion is as infallible as that of Pope Francis!

[Hoddie]

33 minutes ago, Ezra said:

Not mine.  My opinion is as infallible as that of Pope Francis!

So much for your belief of Sola Scriptura... huh? 

Thanks again for help exposing it's error.

[TheMatrixHasU71]

16 hours ago, Hoddie said:

You may have tried to explain it to me with your fallible opinion, but thats not what I asked. Back on page four, you said that the bible holds all truth, and the bible alone is all one needs.... remember? I asked you to show me using your "bible alone" where in your bible does it say God gave us the Canon, and to whom did He give it too? Now if you can't, just admit it.

I have given you the proof when I keep quoting to you ALL SCRIPTURE is given under inspiration of God. Its very telling and easily understandable why that passage doesn't include anything beside scripture. You cant read into it what isn't there.

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Thats right....... "YOU" told me. Show me where in Scripture where it shows it. You are the sola scripturists, not me.

 

I have, and I know the history, right now I'm just getting your input. Very soon I will show you what history really does have to say about it.

 

Where in Scripture doe it say this?

 

Is this just your personal fallible opinion, or can you back it up? You being a sola scripturists, can you back it up with Scripture? Historical documentation?

Are you going to tell me what Scripture say's is the Pillar and foundation of truth?

GOD is the pillar and foundation of truth 1 Tim 3:15. You are misreading the passage. Give glory to God alone not men! Stop giving glory to men, glory that belongs to God alone.

3:15   But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, <--- the pillar and ground of the truth.

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Peace

 

Edited December 23, 2016 by TheMatrixHasU71