Objective morality

[SkyWriting]

On 1/3/2017 at 11:13 PM, Seanc said:

The other point he makes is that its more than just a "social convention" that its more than just what is taught to you and that if you can judge two different peoples morals and say one is better and the other lesser then you are implying there is a Real morality or a Real right independent of what people think. 

A group of people brought a sexual criminal before Jesus and intended to stone her.
He sent them packing for being so judgmental using their own failings as the reason
that they were not qualified to judge.  Then, He being qualified, also did not judge her.
Nor did she repent.  It seems Jesus has no judgment for sex crimes.  Jesus did not point
out her failings with scripture or call her a criminal.  Then he let her go to decide for
herself what her sins were. 
http://biblehub.com/bsb/john/8.htm
 

Edited November 12, 2017 by SkyWriting

[Guest shiloh357]

2 hours ago, SkyWriting said:

Did Paul write them with the intention of them becoming scripture?
Or are you saying Paul wrote them, and wrote the approval of them as well?

It doesn't matter if Paul meant for them to become Scripture.  The Holy Spirit inspired Paul to write those epistles which are included in the Christian canon.   The Holy Spirit included them as Scripture.

And Peter, under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit calls the letters of Paul, "Scripture."   "

"And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction."
(2Pe 3:15-16)

 

[Guest shiloh357]

2 hours ago, SkyWriting said:

A group of people brought a sexual criminal before Jesus and intended to stone her.
He sent them packing for being so judgmental using their own failings as the reason
that they were not qualified to judge.  Then, He being qualified, also did not judge her.
Nor did she repent.  It seems Jesus has no judgment for sex crimes.  Jesus did not point
out her failings with scripture or call her a criminal.  Then he let her go to decide for
herself what her sins were. 
http://biblehub.com/bsb/john/8.htm
 

No, that is also wrong and shows that you don't know the Bible.

Jesus did not dispute the claim made against her than she sinned.  Jesus also did not dispute the fact that she deserved to be stoned to death.   Jesus showed her mercy, but He told her to go and sin no more.   He did NOT let her decide what her sins were.    Sorry, but you don't need to be telling us what the Bible says you don't really even believe the Bible, or think the Bible is really even needed.

[SkyWriting]

2 hours ago, shiloh357 said:

No, that is also wrong and shows that you don't know the Bible.

Jesus did not dispute the claim made against her than she sinned.  Jesus also did not dispute the fact that she deserved to be stoned to death.   Jesus showed her mercy, but He told her to go and sin no more.   He did NOT let her decide what her sins were.    Sorry, but you don't need to be telling us what the Bible says you don't really even believe the Bible, or think the Bible is really even needed.

I didn't come up with the idea that scripture wasn't required for salvation.  Moses and Abraham and Lot never spoke about Jesus.  Then I read that all people, even those without having read scripture, are exposed to God's Holy Spirit directly.
Rom 1:19 For what may be known about God is plain to them,
because God has made it plain to them. 
20 For since the creation of the world 
God’s invisible qualities, His eternal power and divine nature, 
have been clearly seen, being understood from 
His workmanship, so that men are without excuse. 

And I believe what scripture says, that even before scripture was written, people were called to have faith in God.

So, regarding John 8:
 

Quote

 

The Woman Caught in Adultery

1But Jesus went to the Mount of Olives.   2Early in the morning He went back into the temple courts. All the people came to Him, and He sat down to teach them. 3And the scribes and Pharisees brought to Him a woman caught in adultery. They made her stand before them 4and said,

“Teacher, this woman was caught in the act of adultery. 5In the Law Moses commanded us to stone such a woman. So what do You say?”

6They said this to test Him, in order to have a basis for accusing Him. But Jesus bent down and began to write on the ground with His finger.

7When they continued to question Him, He straightened up and said to them, “Whoever is without sin among you, let him be the first to cast a stone at her.” 8And again He bent down and wrote on the ground.

9When they heard this,a they began to go away one by one, beginning with the older ones, until only Jesus was left, with the woman standing there.10Then Jesus straightened upb and asked her, “Woman, where are your accusers?c Has no one condemned you?”

11“No one, Lord,” she answered.

“Neither do I condemn you,” Jesus declared. “Now go and sin no more.”

 

So here we can read, Jesus does not condemn her sins, and he specifically says he does not
condemn her sins nor does he explain what her sins are.
Rather, He sends her home to decide for herself what her sins are.  He also sends those
who think it is their place to judge sins, to go home instead and think about their own sins.

Nor does Jesus tell THEM what their sins are.  He lets them decide for themselves what their
sin are and to dwell on tha fact that becasue they sin, they are not able to judge sin or condemn others.

Jesus, we believe worthy to identify sins, doesn't do it either.

 

Quote

Do Not Judge
…41Why do you look at the speck in your brother’s eye, but fail to notice the beam in your own eye? 
42How can you say, ‘Brother, let me take the speck out of your eye,’ while you yourself fail to see the beam in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the beam out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye. 

This passage explains that the sin in their own life.....the two by four BEAM
prevents them from correctly seeing the speck of dust in the accused persons eye.
Plus, this points to one solving the actual problem, not pointing fingers into peoples eyes. 

37“Judge not, and you will not be judged; condemn not, and you will not be condemned;
forgive, and you will be forgiven;
 

 

Thanks for the opportunity to post scripture for all to read.
 

Edited November 12, 2017 by SkyWriting

[Guest shiloh357]

7 minutes ago, SkyWriting said:

I didn't come up with the idea that scripture wasn't required for salvation.  Moses and Abraham and Lot never spoke about Jesus.  Then I read that all people, even those without having read scripture, are exposed to God's Holy Spirit directly.
Rom 1:19 For what may be known about God is plain to them,
because God has made it plain to them. 
20 For since the creation of the world 
God’s invisible qualities, His eternal power and divine nature, 
have been clearly seen, being understood from 
His workmanship, so that men are without excuse. 

 

No, that Scripture is NOT saying talking about Abraham and Moses and Lot.   It is talking about pagans who reject the knowledge of God as revealed in nature.   You are not very good at handling Scripture and it comes out in the the kind of nonsense you are posting here.

Moses and Abraham had direct revelation from God.  Moses wrote the first five books of the Bible by direct inspiration from God.  They had a knowledge of God based upon a direct and personal relationship with God.

Rom. 1:19-20 is talking about those who reject God even though nature testifies of Him and they will be held accountable for what light they had.   You are completely off base and are really sloppy in your handling of Scripture.

 

Quote

 

So here we can read, Jesus does not condemn her sins, and he specifically says he does not
condemn her sins nor does he explain what her sins are.
Rather, He sends her home to decide for herself what her sins are.  He also sends those
who think it is their place to judge sins, to go home instead and think about their own sins.

Nor does Jesus tell THEM what their sins are.  He lets them decide for themselves what their
sin are and to dwell on tha fact that becasue they sin, they are not able to judge sin or condemn others.
Thanks for the opportunity to post scripture for all to read.

 

Wrong.   What we read is that she was guilty of adultery.   Jesus didn't debate that.   He didn't say she was falsely accused.   He didn't tell anyone go and think about their sins.   You are penciling that into the text.   Her sin was adultery.   That is not in dispute.   He told her to not commit that sin any longer.  

You are making things up about the text that are not there.  You are not competent to handle Scripture.

[SkyWriting]

4 minutes ago, shiloh357 said:

No, that Scripture is NOT saying talking about Abraham and Moses and Lot.   It is talking about pagans who reject the knowledge of God as revealed in nature.   You are not very good at handling Scripture and it comes out in the the kind of nonsense you are posting here.

Moses and Abraham had direct revelation from God.  Moses wrote the first five books of the Bible by direct inspiration from God.  They had a knowledge of God based upon a direct and personal relationship with God.

Rom. 1:19-20 is talking about those who reject God even though nature testifies of Him and they will be held accountable for what light they had.   You are completely off base and are really sloppy in your handling of Scripture.

People can read for themselves.  I only stated regarding what scripture actually says.
We all know that those before Jesus was born had the option of salvation as well.

Edited November 12, 2017 by SkyWriting

[Guest shiloh357]

1 minute ago, SkyWriting said:

People can read for themselves.  I only stated regarding what scripture actually says.

No, you didn't.   You supplied your own errant interpretation and tried to impose that on to the text. 

[SkyWriting]

4 hours ago, Sojourner414 said:

It's just more of him trying to disqualify the Scriptures he doesn't approve of, because it doesn't fit his agenda.

There is some truth to this.  I stumbled across this passage:

Matthew 7:12    In everything, then, do to others as you would have them do to you. For this is the essence of the Law and the prophets.

and it occurred to me that any treatment of any group of people (others) must follow this guideline. 
And that most of what people object to about "Christians" is because they also fail to follow this rule.
And then there was objection to "women talking in church" that also failed to follow this rule.
And then there was "women as church leaders" also failing to follow this rule.

So all the complaining about scripture and Christianity, turns out to be people not following
the one foundational rule of Christianity. 
 

It's a message Jesus taught, but even his disiples didn't fully implement. 

Edited November 12, 2017 by SkyWriting

[SkyWriting]

4 hours ago, Yowm said:

Revelation 21:8 NKJV
[8] But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death."

I suppose you have problems with John as well? Remember those are the words of Jesus..

Moses was a murderer.   And I know at least one coward. Do fibs count as lies?  I would agree that Penn & Teller are not yet saved.

Edited November 12, 2017 by SkyWriting

[SkyWriting]

50 minutes ago, shiloh357 said:

No, you didn't.   You supplied your own errant interpretation and tried to impose that on to the text. 

You'll have to be more specific than that to get me to repeat it all.
 

But I can cover more on relativity!

Quote

Rom. 14:5-6. Rom. 14:5, One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
V. 6, He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.
Gal. 4:9-10.
Gal. 4:9, But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?
V. 10, Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years.
Coll. 2:14-17;
Coll. 2:14, Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
V. 15, And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.
V. 16, ¶ Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
V. 17, Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

Here you can read that we each, in our own mind, do what is right.  God understands and explains that here. 

Edited November 12, 2017 by SkyWriting