Marilyn C Posted May 13, 2017 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 30 Topic Count: 267 Topics Per Day: 0.07 Content Count: 13,205 Content Per Day: 3.49 Reputation: 8,497 Days Won: 12 Joined: 12/21/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/06/1947 Share Posted May 13, 2017 3 hours ago, shiloh357 said: It really isn't that hard to understand. No it`s not hard to understand, as you say, for when the Father says He makes His Son the heir of all things, - He means ALL THINGS, and not just the earth. That is only PART of ALL THINGS. And that is quite plain! Earthly authority is under the Supreme authority in heaven and that is where the Lord Jesus Christ will rule over the overcomers, the myriads of angels, plus Israel and the nations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted May 13, 2017 Share Posted May 13, 2017 24 minutes ago, Marilyn C said: No it`s not hard to understand, as you say, for when the Father says He makes His Son the heir of all things, - He means ALL THINGS, and not just the earth. That is only PART of ALL THINGS. And that is quite plain! But who said He was heir of just the earth? It would be helpful if you would not waste your time trying to refuge arguments I never raised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marilyn C Posted May 13, 2017 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 30 Topic Count: 267 Topics Per Day: 0.07 Content Count: 13,205 Content Per Day: 3.49 Reputation: 8,497 Days Won: 12 Joined: 12/21/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/06/1947 Share Posted May 13, 2017 16 hours ago, shiloh357 said: But who said He was heir of just the earth? I`m glad you believe that the Father made His Son the heir of all things. Now we are looking at that, remember what the Lord said to the centurion? `For I also am a man under authority, having soldiers under me.` (Matt. 8: 9) Here we see, as you would know a hierarchy of authority. 1. Authority over the centurion 2. Authority of the centurion 3. Soldiers under the centurion. Similarly, with regard to the Lord`s authority we read that He is in authority over all, and that there are those under Him, in heaven and on the earth. Authority Supreme of the Lord in the third heaven over - Overcomers, - Myriads of angels - Israel - Nations Thus we realise that David`s throne is under the rulership of the Lord from His supreme authority in the third heaven. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted May 13, 2017 Share Posted May 13, 2017 11 minutes ago, Marilyn C said: Thus we realise that David`s throne is under the rulership of the Lord from His supreme authority in the third heaven. No, that does not mean that Jesus' reign will located in Heaven. Jesus as Israel's Messiah will reign from earth, as that is the expectation, that He will be an earthly king and everything prophesied about His role as Israel's Messiah is located on earth and that includes His earthly kingdom. His throne will be earth. The throne of David is NEVER mentioned as being in Heaven. EVERY mention of David's throne always locates it on earth. Jesus will be given the throne of David (Is. 9:6-7) His ancestor. King David is not Israel's Messiah. Jesus and David will be in Israel and David will subordinate to Jesus. It really is that simple and that is the biblical way to see it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marilyn C Posted May 13, 2017 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 30 Topic Count: 267 Topics Per Day: 0.07 Content Count: 13,205 Content Per Day: 3.49 Reputation: 8,497 Days Won: 12 Joined: 12/21/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/06/1947 Share Posted May 13, 2017 Just now, shiloh357 said: No, that does not mean that Jesus' reign will located in Heaven. Jesus as Israel's Messiah will reign from earth, as that is the expectation, that He will be an earthly king and everything prophesied about His role as Israel's Messiah is located on earth and that includes His earthly kingdom. His throne will be earth. The throne of David is NEVER mentioned as being in Heaven. EVERY mention of David's throne always locates it on earth. Jesus will be given the throne of David (Is. 9:6-7) His ancestor. King David is not Israel's Messiah. Jesus and David will be in Israel and David will subordinate to Jesus. It really is that simple and that is the biblical way to see it. David`s throne is the authority to rule over Israel. Jesus has that authority as well as other authority. Rulership, authority always proceeds from the highest to the lowest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted May 14, 2017 Share Posted May 14, 2017 5 minutes ago, Marilyn C said: David`s throne is the authority to rule over Israel. Jesus has that authority as well as other authority. Rulership, authority always proceeds from the highest to the lowest. That doesn't mean that it Jesus will reign from Heaven during the Millennium. Jesus' authority will be the same on earth. You are trying to put requirements on the location that are simply not biblical where Jesus' role as Messiah of Israel is concerned. Jesus isn't the Messiah of the world; He is the Messiah of Israel. He is King and Savior of the world, and He will rule Israel as their Messiah and at the same time possess a universal rule that will cover the whole earth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marilyn C Posted May 14, 2017 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 30 Topic Count: 267 Topics Per Day: 0.07 Content Count: 13,205 Content Per Day: 3.49 Reputation: 8,497 Days Won: 12 Joined: 12/21/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/06/1947 Share Posted May 14, 2017 Just now, shiloh357 said: That doesn't mean that it Jesus will reign from Heaven during the Millennium. Jesus' authority will be the same on earth. You are trying to put requirements on the location that are simply not biblical where Jesus' role as Messiah of Israel is concerned. Jesus isn't the Messiah of the world; He is the Messiah of Israel. He is King and Savior of the world, and He will rule Israel as their Messiah and at the same time possess a universal rule that will cover the whole earth. `For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him.` (Col. 1: 16) There we see quite an obvious hierarchy, bro. made by the Lord Himself for Himself. Now we know that the Queen of England has her authority in England, however she has authority over many dominions, Australia included. She does not, however rule from Australia but from her seat of power & authority in England. God Himself tells us where His authority is - `Heaven is my throne, (authority) and earth is my footstool.` (Isa. 66: 1) Lucifer had authority in the third heaven but was cast out. He usurped authority in the principalities and powers area, a lesser authority, till he gets cast out of there in the tribulation, and finally to the pit and then the lake of fire. So we can quite readily see his demise in a descent of power and authority. God has instituted authorities and they are all subject to the Lord of glory in the third heaven, the seat of His authority and from where He will rule and reign over all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted May 14, 2017 Share Posted May 14, 2017 3 minutes ago, Marilyn C said: `For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him.` (Col. 1: 16) There we see quite an obvious hierarchy, bro. made by the Lord Himself for Himself. Now we know that the Queen of England has her authority in England, however she has authority over many dominions, Australia included. She does not, however rule from Australia but from her seat of power & authority in England. God Himself tells us where His authority is - `Heaven is my throne, (authority) and earth is my footstool.` (Isa. 66: 1) Lucifer had authority in the third heaven but was cast out. He usurped authority in the principalities and powers area, a lesser authority, till he gets cast out of there in the tribulation, and finally to the pit and then the lake of fire. So we can quite readily see his demise in a descent of power and authority. God has instituted authorities and they are all subject to the Lord of glory in the third heaven, the seat of His authority and from where He will rule and reign over all. The problem is that Jesus' role as Messiah necessitates his presence in Jerusalem. That seems to be the hang up with you. Jesus' authority is not diminished in any way simply because His throne is on earth during the Millennium. His authority is still heavenly, but that doesn't mean His throne must be located in Heaven during the Millennium. Everything related to Jesus prophetic roles where Israel is concerned is on earth. Jesus' authority is the same no matter where He is, but the Bible locates His Messianic Kingdom on earth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marilyn C Posted May 14, 2017 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 30 Topic Count: 267 Topics Per Day: 0.07 Content Count: 13,205 Content Per Day: 3.49 Reputation: 8,497 Days Won: 12 Joined: 12/21/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/06/1947 Share Posted May 14, 2017 Just now, shiloh357 said: The problem is that Jesus' role as Messiah necessitates his presence in Jerusalem. That seems to be the hang up with you. Jesus' authority is not diminished in any way simply because His throne is on earth during the Millennium. His authority is still heavenly, but that doesn't mean His throne must be located in Heaven during the Millennium. Everything related to Jesus prophetic roles where Israel is concerned is on earth. Jesus' authority is the same no matter where He is, but the Bible locates His Messianic Kingdom on earth. You say - His authority is still heavenly, but that doesn`t mean His throne must be located in heaven during the millennium.` That seems to be a contradiction bro. Remember we both agreed that `throne` meant `authority?` Well...let`s look at your statement again. `His authority is still heavenly, but that doesn't mean His authority must be located in heaven during the millennium.` Care to explain? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted May 14, 2017 Share Posted May 14, 2017 5 hours ago, Marilyn C said: You say - His authority is still heavenly, but that doesn`t mean His throne must be located in heaven during the millennium.` That seems to be a contradiction bro. Remember we both agreed that `throne` meant `authority?` Well...let`s look at your statement again. `His authority is still heavenly, but that doesn't mean His authority must be located in heaven during the millennium.` Care to explain? There is no contradiction. You are confusing Jesus' authority to reign with the reign itself. And you are also, wrongly, taking passages about Jesus' relationship to the Church during the Church age and expecting those to apply to Jesus during the millennial reign. During the Millennium, God is dealing with Israel, not the Church. The Church age will have ended. Once the Church is taken out of the earth at the rapture, the Church age will have ended, and God will again turn His attention to Israel. That will culminate in the millennial or Messianic reign of Jesus on earth as Israel's Messiah. That earthly kingdom is Israel's prophetic future. As Israel's Messiah, Jesus has a special and unique relationship to Israel. All of the promises God has made to Israel have to be fulfilled. God's promises to Israel are fulfilled on earth. Jesus' role Israel's Messianic King is apex of that fulfillment. Unlike the Church, whose blessings from God are spiritual and heavenly, His promises to Israel are earthly. Jesus does not reign as Israel's Messiah from Heaven. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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