MorningGlory Posted December 4, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1,022 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 39,193 Content Per Day: 6.11 Reputation: 9,977 Days Won: 78 Joined: 10/01/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted December 4, 2017 1 hour ago, Jude1:3 said: One thing that always confused me before I knew about 1 Enoch was knowing exactly What were the unclean spirits that possessed people that Yeshua Messiah casted out of people. I used to think that it was Fallen Angels that possessed people but now after reading 1 Enoch and the quote by Justin Martyr I know that they are the Disembodied Spirits of the Offspring of union between Fallen Angels and Human wives: • Justin Martyr wrote in his Second Apology - Chapter 5 (100-165 A.D.) “But The Angels Transgressed this appointment, and were captivated by love of women, and begat children Who Are Those That Are Called Demons; http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0127.htm • 1 Enoch 15:1-12 And He answered and said to me, and I heard His voice: 'Fear not, Enoch, thou righteous man and scribe of righteousness: approach hither and hear my voice. And go, say to the Watchers of heaven, who have sent thee to intercede for them: "You should intercede" for men, and not men for you: Wherefore have ye left the high, holy, and eternal heaven, and lain with women, and defiled yourselves with the daughters of men and taken to yourselves wives, and done like the children of earth, and begotten giants (as your) sons? And though ye were holy, spiritual, living the eternal life, you have defiled yourselves with the blood of women, and have begotten (children) with the blood of flesh, and, as the children of men, have lusted after flesh and blood as those also do who die and perish. Therefore have I given them wives also that they might impregnate them, and beget children by them, that thus nothing might be wanting to them on earth. But you were formerly spiritual, living the eternal life, and immortal for all generations of the world. And therefore I have not appointed wives for you; for as for the spiritual ones of the heaven, in heaven is their dwelling. And now, the giants, who are produced from the spirits and flesh, shall be called evil spirits upon the earth, and on the earth shall be their dwelling. Evil spirits have proceeded from their bodies; because they are born from men and from the holy Watchers is their beginning and primal origin; they shall be evil spirits on earth, and evil spirits shall they be called. [As for the spirits of heaven, in heaven shall be their dwelling, but as for the spirits of the earth which were born upon the earth, on the earth shall be their dwelling.] And the spirits of the giants afflict, oppress, destroy, attack, do battle, and work destruction on the earth, and cause trouble: they take no food, but nevertheless hunger and thirst, and cause offences. And these spirits shall rise up against the children of men and against the women, because they have proceeded from them. • 1 Enoch 15:1-12 http://reluctant-messenger.com/book_of_enoch.htm So you didn't know what the unclean spirits were by reading the Bible? And you believe what you read in the Book of Enoch? That is very unsettling. Do you believe you are more enlightened by reading that Book, as some believe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorningGlory Posted December 4, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1,022 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 39,193 Content Per Day: 6.11 Reputation: 9,977 Days Won: 78 Joined: 10/01/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted December 4, 2017 2 hours ago, Jude1:3 said: Not All Of Them, but there are Many that are Unfortunately. On what do you base your statement? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jude1:3 Posted December 4, 2017 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 19 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 391 Content Per Day: 0.16 Reputation: 158 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/14/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted December 4, 2017 10 minutes ago, MorningGlory said: And you believe what you read in the Book of Enoch? It helps fill in the gaps on vague topics. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jude1:3 Posted December 4, 2017 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 19 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 391 Content Per Day: 0.16 Reputation: 158 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/14/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted December 4, 2017 The quote from Early Church Father Justin Martyr gives us a Snap Shot of What Early Christians believed. The Other Quotes from Early Christian Fathers shows us that 1 Enoch was esteemed as Christian Scripture. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jude1:3 Posted December 4, 2017 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 19 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 391 Content Per Day: 0.16 Reputation: 158 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/14/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted December 4, 2017 10 minutes ago, MorningGlory said: On what do you base your statement? We should create another thread about this specific topic. Maybe I can show you there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorningGlory Posted December 4, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1,022 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 39,193 Content Per Day: 6.11 Reputation: 9,977 Days Won: 78 Joined: 10/01/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted December 4, 2017 32 minutes ago, Jude1:3 said: We should create another thread about this specific topic. Maybe I can show you there. That's a good idea, Jude. I don't want to be a derailer. Start it and I'm sure lots of members will read and post. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorningGlory Posted December 4, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1,022 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 39,193 Content Per Day: 6.11 Reputation: 9,977 Days Won: 78 Joined: 10/01/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted December 4, 2017 39 minutes ago, Jude1:3 said: It helps fill in the gaps on vague topics. I am leery of 'filling in the gaps' because I believe God told us everything we need to know in Scripture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jude1:3 Posted December 4, 2017 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 19 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 391 Content Per Day: 0.16 Reputation: 158 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/14/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted December 4, 2017 22 minutes ago, MorningGlory said: I am leery of 'filling in the gaps' because I believe God told us everything we need to know in Scripture. And that is why 1 Enoch is and has always been scripture. It was first Officially rejected at The Council of Jamnia in (70–90 A.D.) By Hebrews Who Specifically Excluded Other Hebrews that believed Yeshua was The Messiah from the Council. They rejected 1 Enoch because it was leading so many Hebrews to The Lord Jesus Christ : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Council_of_Jamnia 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jude1:3 Posted December 4, 2017 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 19 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 391 Content Per Day: 0.16 Reputation: 158 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/14/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted December 4, 2017 From: https://www.christianforums.com/threads/the-book-of-enoch.7434497/ Reasons for accepting the Book of Enoch as the writing of the Biblical Enoch:1. Because of the fulfilled Messianic prophecies in its pages2. Because it answers so many questions raised by study of the Bible but not answered therein: The nature of the sin of the "sons of God" in Genesis 6 The curious origin of the Old Testament giants The origin of demons (which is) never expressly stated in the Bible The pervasive use by Christ of the term "the Son of Man" The nature of the angels' sin mentioned in Jude and 2 Peter 2 The sending of the scapegoat to Azazel in Leviticus 16 Jude's classification of Enoch as a prophet which is not mentioned elsewhere in the Bible It shows where Jude got his quote from Enoch 1:9 The origin and purpose of St. John's enigmatic "Bottomless Pit" It provides an ostensible framework for understanding the yet future 1,000-year earthly rule of Christ 3. Because it is demonstrably ancient and was in wide use, respected as valid among many among the people to whom our Lord came4. Because its authenticity as the source for Jude's quote has been vindicated by the Dead Sea Scrolls5. Because of the many external references to it by other pre-Christian Jewish books6. Because of the persistent testimony to its worth as Scripture by an ancient communion of Christian Orthodoxy7. Because Jude the half-brother of Christ testifies to its being the very words of Enoch, who Jude classifies a prophet8. Because I believe the Book of Revelation was truly revealed by God to John, and the Book of Enoch contained many of the same revealed items before John wrote his book 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jude1:3 Posted December 4, 2017 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 19 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 391 Content Per Day: 0.16 Reputation: 158 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/14/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted December 4, 2017 • Church Father Athenagoras of Alexandria also mentions Fallen angels mating with humans in his work A Plea For The Christians in Chapters 24 and 25 : (133-190 A.D.) http://ecmarsh.com/fathers/anf/ANF-02/anf02-46.htm#P2397_653146 Just as with men, who have freedom of choice as to both virtue and vice (for you would not either honour the good or punish the bad, unless vice and virtue were in their own power; and some are diligent in the matters entrusted to them by you, and others faithless), so is it among the angels. Some, free agents, you will observe, such as they were created by God, continued in those things for which God had made and over which He had ordained them; but some outraged both the constitution of their nature and the government entrusted to them: namely, this ruler of matter and its various forms, and others of those who were placed about this first firmament (you know that we say nothing without witnesses, but state the things which have been declared by the prophets); these fell into impure love of virgins, and were subjugated by the flesh, and he became negligent and wicked in the management of the things entrusted to him. Of these lovers of virgins, therefore, were begotten those who are called giants.91 And if something has been said by the poets, too, about the giants, be not surprised at this: worldly Wisdom and divine differ as much from each other as truth and plausibility: the one is of heaven and the other of earth; and indeed, according to the prince of matter,- Chapter 24 These angels, then, who have fallen from heaven, and haunt the air and the earth, and are no longer able to rise to heavenly things, and the souls of the giants, which are the demons who wander about the world, perform actions similar, the one (that is, the demons) to the natures they have received, the other (that is, the angels) to the appetites they have indulged. But the prince of matter, as may be seen merely from what transpires, exercises a control and management contrary to the good that is in God:- Chapter 25 http://ecmarsh.com/fathers/anf/ANF-02/anf02-46.htm#P2397_653146 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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