Tongues

[Paul James]

On 5/5/2020 at 10:30 PM, leah777 said:

Have you not read this part? Prophesy is greater than tongues, and Paul recognizes that not all speak in tongues. Quoting a whole passage, not only a scripture, gives more understanding of the meaning.

Reading the entire chapter is better to help you understand the distribution and levels of gifts.

Did you miss when Paul said, "I thank God I speak in tongues more than you all, yet in the church...    No one has been able or willing to explain where Paul spoke in tongues if not in the church. 

[Paul James]

On 5/7/2020 at 4:14 AM, Daniel Marsh said:

One thing they should be aware of is called "priming the pump"   where someone tells you to repeat after them.   That is clearly against how it happened in scripture.

 

 

A person is more likely to receive a counterfeit if he waits for some kind of force to take over his mouth and tongues and starts speaking involuntarily in some kind of tongues, which, because it is of compulsion and not of faith, the tongues are probably a counterfeit.   But a person who believes that it is God's will for him to receive the ability to pray in tongues, and asks God for it, receives it as God promised to those who ask according to His will, and then steps out in faith and starts speaking - is more likely to receive the genuine gift.

But if a person doesn't believe it is God's will for him, and teaches others that it is not God's will for them, he treads on dangerous ground, and could be exposed by the Lord as a total liar and false teacher.

 

[Behold]

1 minute ago, Paul James said:

 

But if a person doesn't believe it is God's will for him, and teaches others that it is not God's will for them, he treads on dangerous ground, and could be exposed by the Lord as a total liar and false teacher.

 

You should read my Thread.

[Paul James]

On 5/7/2020 at 12:53 PM, Daniel Marsh said:

The context of I cor 12-14  is in church, not out of church.

Then explain Paul saying, "I thank God I speak in tongues more than you all, yet in the church, I would rather give two words that people can understand".  Where did Paul do all his speaking on tongues if not in the church?   Those four words in bold destroys your argument, because Paul is definitely saying that when he speaks in tongues it is not in the church at all, and when he says that he would they all speak in tongues, it would not be in the church, because he quite clearly said that if they are in the church he would that they would prophesy instead.

[Paul James]

On 5/7/2020 at 10:05 PM, Paul James said:

It is interesting that you are not prepared to address the fact that Paul spoke in tongues more than anyone, and that his preference was they that all spoke in tongues.

Perhaps he needs to follow his own advice and seeks the word of wisdom so he can rightly discern what Paul is really saying in 1 Corinthians 12 and 14, instead of making himself a liar, according to Proverbs 305-6, by adding his own opinions to God's Word.

[Behold]

On 5/8/2020 at 9:16 AM, Daniel Marsh said:

Paul's point was he rather speak five words in a language people understand.

1 Corinthians 14:18-19  I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all:
 Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue.

The contrast shows that tongues is a language that is not known to the speaker. 

 

This is correct.

We know that the gift of a foreign tongue is the "gift", so, unless this is necessary, there is no reason to use it.

If Paul is speaking in what can't be understood, then this is not a foreign language, or the "gift of tongues" because he would only do that so they COULD understand him.

But he is in the Corinthian Church and all understand him.

 

 

Edited May 12, 2020 by Behold

[Paul James]

7 minutes ago, Behold said:

You should read my Thread.

That's what I mean.  Your OP in that thread is false teaching, adding your own opinions to God's word  therefore this Scripture applies

"Every word of God is pure;
He is a shield to those who put their trust in Him.
Do not add to His words,
Lest He rebuke you, and you be found a liar" (Proverbs 305-6).

 

 

[Behold]

18 minutes ago, Paul James said:

That's what I mean.  Your OP in that thread is false teaching, adding your own opinions to God's word  therefore this Scripture applies

"Every word of God is pure;
He is a shield to those who put their trust in Him.
Do not add to His words,
Lest He rebuke you, and you be found a liar" (Proverbs 305-6).

Isn't it easy to accuse and not use a quote or offer any proof?

George edit:  Please quote what you are referring.

Edited May 12, 2020 by George
Edited

[Paul James]

20 minutes ago, Behold said:

Isn't it easy to accuse and not use a quote or offer any proof?

George edit:  Please quote what you are referring.

All I am doing is quoting Scripture to show how God views someone who adds personal opinion to His Word.  I am not accusing you.  God is.

[Daniel Marsh]

59 minutes ago, Behold said:

This is correct.

We know that the gift of a foreign tongue is the "gift", so, unless this is necessary, there is no reason to use it.

If Paul is speaking in what can't be understood, then this is not a foreign language, or the "gift of tongues" because he would only do that so they COULD understand him.

But he is in the Corinthian Church and all understand him.

 

 

"not a foreign language"  makes no sense.   because 1) The word tongues means languages.   2)  Not everyone knows all foreign languages.    Paul in the chapters speaks of music as having a meaning.     Acts 2, demonstrates that tongues there were languages. 

 

 

Strong's Concordance
glóssa: the tongue, a language
Original Word: γλῶσσα, ης, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: glóssa
Phonetic Spelling: (gloce-sah')
Definition: the tongue, a language
Usage: the tongue, a language, a nation (usually distinguished by their speech).
HELPS Word-studies
1100 glṓssa – tongue, used of flowing speech; (figuratively) speaking, inspired by God, like the evidence of tongues-speaking supplied by the Lord in the book of Acts to demonstrate the arrival of the new age of the covenant (i.e. NT times).

[The normative experience of the 120 believers received "tongues (1100 /glṓssa) as of fire" (Ac 2:3) and miraculously spoke in other actual languages, i.e. that they could not speak before (Ac 2:4f). This sign was repeated in Ac 10:46, 19:6 – furnishing ample proof (three attestations) that the Lord had incorporated all believers into Christ's (mystical) body (1 Cor 12:13).]

Acts 2:3 N-NFP
GRK: αὐτοῖς διαμεριζόμεναι γλῶσσαι ὡσεὶ πυρός
NAS: And there appeared to them tongues as of fire
KJV: cloven tongues like as
INT: to them divided tongues as of fire

Acts 2:4 N-DFP
GRK: λαλεῖν ἑτέραις γλώσσαις καθὼς τὸ
NAS: with other tongues, as the Spirit
KJV: other tongues, as
INT: to speak with other tongues as the

Acts 2:11 N-DFP
GRK: ταῖς ἡμετέραις γλώσσαις τὰ μεγαλεῖα
NAS: we hear them in our [own] tongues speaking
KJV: in our tongues the wonderful works
INT: [in] our tongues the great things

Acts 2:26 N-NFS
GRK: ἠγαλλιάσατο ἡ γλῶσσά μου ἔτι
NAS: WAS GLAD AND MY TONGUE EXULTED;
KJV: and my tongue was glad; moreover
INT: rejoiced the tongue of me and

Acts 10:46 N-DFP
GRK: αὐτῶν λαλούντων γλώσσαις καὶ μεγαλυνόντων
NAS: them speaking with tongues and exalting
KJV: them speak with tongues, and magnify
INT: them speaking with tongues and magnifying

Acts 19:6 N-DFP
GRK: ἐλάλουν τε γλώσσαις καὶ ἐπροφήτευον
NAS: on them, and they [began] speaking with tongues and prophesying.
KJV: they spake with tongues, and
INT: they were speaking moreover with tongues and prophesying

Romans 3:13 N-DFP
GRK: αὐτῶν ταῖς γλώσσαις αὐτῶν ἐδολιοῦσαν
NAS: GRAVE, WITH THEIR TONGUES THEY KEEP DECEIVING,
KJV: with their tongues they have used deceit;
INT: of them with the tongues of them they practice deceit

Romans 14:11 N-NFS
GRK: καὶ πᾶσα γλῶσσα ἐξομολογήσεται τῷ
NAS: TO ME, AND EVERY TONGUE SHALL GIVE PRAISE
KJV: and every tongue shall confess to God.
INT: and every tongue will confess

1 Corinthians 12:10 N-GFP
GRK: ἑτέρῳ γένη γλωσσῶν ἄλλῳ δὲ
NAS: [various] kinds of tongues, and to another
KJV: [divers] kinds of tongues;
INT: and to a different one kinds of tongues to another moreover

1 Corinthians 12:10 N-GFP
GRK: δὲ ἑρμηνεία γλωσσῶν
NAS: the interpretation of tongues.
KJV: the interpretation of tongues:
INT: moreover interpretation of tongues

1 Corinthians 12:28 N-GFP
GRK: κυβερνήσεις γένη γλωσσῶν
NAS: [various] kinds of tongues.
KJV: governments, diversities of tongues.
INT: administrating various kinds of tongues

1 Corinthians 12:30 N-DFP
GRK: μὴ πάντες γλώσσαις λαλοῦσιν μὴ
NAS: do not speak with tongues, do they? All
KJV: do all speak with tongues? do all
INT: not all do speak with tongues not

1 Corinthians 13:1 N-DFP
GRK: Ἐὰν ταῖς γλώσσαις τῶν ἀνθρώπων
NAS: I speak with the tongues of men
KJV: I speak with the tongues of men
INT: If with the tongues the of men

1 Corinthians 13:8 N-NFP
GRK: καταργηθήσονται εἴτε γλῶσσαι παύσονται εἴτε
NAS: if [there are] tongues, they will cease;
KJV: whether [there be] tongues, they shall cease;
INT: they will be done away whether tongues they will cease whether

1 Corinthians 14:2 N-DFS
GRK: γὰρ λαλῶν γλώσσῃ οὐκ ἀνθρώποις
NAS: For one who speaks in a tongue does not speak
KJV: he that speaketh in an [unknown] tongue speaketh
INT: indeed speaks with a tongue not to men

1 Corinthians 14:4 N-DFS
GRK: ὁ λαλῶν γλώσσῃ ἑαυτὸν οἰκοδομεῖ
NAS: One who speaks in a tongue edifies
KJV: He that speaketh in an [unknown] tongue edifieth
INT: He that speaks with a tongue himself builds up

1 Corinthians 14:5 N-DFP
GRK: ὑμᾶς λαλεῖν γλώσσαις μᾶλλον δὲ
NAS: spoke in tongues, but [even] more
KJV: all spake with tongues, but rather
INT: you to speak with tongues rather however

1 Corinthians 14:5 N-DFP
GRK: ὁ λαλῶν γλώσσαις ἐκτὸς εἰ
NAS: one who speaks in tongues, unless
KJV: he that speaketh with tongues, except
INT: he that speaks with tongues except if

1 Corinthians 14:6 N-DFP
GRK: πρὸς ὑμᾶς γλώσσαις λαλῶν τί
NAS: to you speaking in tongues, what
KJV: speaking with tongues, what
INT: to you with tongues speaking what

1 Corinthians 14:9 N-GFS
GRK: διὰ τῆς γλώσσης ἐὰν μὴ
NAS: you utter by the tongue speech
KJV: by the tongue words
INT: by means of the tongue if not

https://biblehub.com/greek/1100.htm

 

As you can see from the LXX,  the same greek word used in Acts 2 and I Cor 12:1 - 15:1 is used from the Greek translation of the tower of babel.   

Genesis 11:1-9 Evangelical Heritage Version (EHV)

The Division of the Earth

11 The whole earth had one language and a single vocabulary. ² As people traveled in the east, they found a plain in the land of Shinar, and they settled there. ³ They said to one another, “Come, let’s make bricks and bake them thoroughly.” They used mud brick instead of stone for building material, and they used tar for mortar. ⁴ They said, “Come, let’s build a city for ourselves and a tower whose top reaches to the sky, and let’s make a name for ourselves, so that we will not be scattered abroad over the face of the whole earth.”

⁵ The Lord came down to see the city and the tower that the people were building. ⁶ The Lord said, “If this is the first thing they are doing as one people, who all have one language, then nothing that they intend to do will be too difficult for them. ⁷ Come, let’s go down there and confuse their language(γλῶσσαν), so that they cannot understand one another’s speech.”

From LXX,  11:7  δεῦτε καὶ καταβάντες συγχέωμεν ἐκεῗ αὐτῶν τὴν γλῶσσαν ἵνα μὴ ἀκούσωσιν ἕκαστος τὴν φωνὴν τοῦ πλησίον

https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G1100&t=LXX

 

⁸ So the Lord scattered them from there over the face of the whole earth, and they stopped building the city. ⁹ It was named Babel,^[a] because there the Lord confused the language of the whole earth. From there the Lord scattered them over the face of the whole earth.