Orr v'emet Posted April 14, 2005 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 26 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,672 Content Per Day: 0.23 Reputation: 11 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/12/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted April 14, 2005 vrspock, So are you saying that we should ignore God's instruction for our life and do what we want to do because we are sinful by nature anyway? Just trying to clear up the message of your post here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VRSpock Posted April 14, 2005 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 34 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 304 Content Per Day: 0.09 Reputation: 4 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/09/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 06/24/1971 Share Posted April 14, 2005 vrspock, So are you saying that we should ignore God's instruction for our life and do what we want to do because we are sinful by nature anyway? Just trying to clear up the message of your post here. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> No....not by any means. If we truly have a living relationship with Christ, then our desires will be His desires....and not a desire to sin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orr v'emet Posted April 14, 2005 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 26 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,672 Content Per Day: 0.23 Reputation: 11 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/12/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted April 14, 2005 vrspock, So are you saying that we should ignore God's instruction for our life and do what we want to do because we are sinful by nature anyway? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shyguy Posted April 15, 2005 Group: Junior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 13 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 89 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 6 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/06/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/09/1974 Author Share Posted April 15, 2005 Spock I see your post, but you forgot about the this part 1Co 7:11 But if she is indeed separated, let her remain unmarried, or be reconciled to her husband. You cant just clip it off and quote versus 12-15 Rom 7:3 So then if, while her husband lives, she is married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress. But if the husband dies, she is free from the law, so that she is no adulteress by becoming another man's wife. The intention certianly is made that if you are to divorce you are to remain unmarried. I dont know how these passages can be disregarded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VRSpock Posted April 15, 2005 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 34 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 304 Content Per Day: 0.09 Reputation: 4 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/09/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 06/24/1971 Share Posted April 15, 2005 (edited) Spock I see your post, but you forgot about the this part 1Co 7:11 But if she is indeed separated, let her remain unmarried, or be reconciled to her husband. You cant just clip it off and quote versus 12-15 Rom 7:3 So then if, while her husband lives, she is married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress. But if the husband dies, she is free from the law, so that she is no adulteress by becoming another man's wife. The intention certianly is made that if you are to divorce you are to remain unmarried. I dont know how these passages can be disregarded. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> seperation and a bill of divorce are two different things. I would most certainly not want to tangle with anyone who is in a seperated status and has not actually fullfilled the legal requirements of divorce. Christ said the reason moses passed bills of divorce was because of hardened hearts. Someone with a hardened heart is someone who has lost touch of their relationship with Christ/God. The law was broken before it was ever written...we are simply incapable of meeting God's expectations through any works of our own. The intent of that entire scripture is that God wants a marriage to be one of peace...and not a war zone or battle of self wills. Marriage should be an intimate sanctuary between a man and a woman just as our relationship with Christ should be also. If one doesn't know what marriage is...then how can one be truly married in the eyes of God? The same can be said of salvation and one's relationship with Christ. One must have a revelation of it's true meaning before one can be saved. Just because people consider themselves saved because they went through some "prayer of salvation" ritual doesn't mean that they are indeed saved. They must have a genuine relationship with Christ...otherwise they are just a pew warmer. The same is true of marriage. The relationship must be genuine and of God...otherwise they are just playing marriage like the pew warmers play church. I am not condoning divorce. Many people divorce for the wrong reasons and I agree that it is far too easy to get a divorce based upon "irreconciliable differences" If our courts were holy courts and our judges just judges of God's temple, no divorce would be decreed without extensive insight into the situation at hand and considerable prayer time with God over what sort of judgement is to be made. But we are not living under a government that is truly under God. If I had my way, people who slept around on their spouse would face capital punishment under the charges of attempted mansluaghter. People who abuse their spouse physcially would receive the same in punishment during the divorce process. Old testament justice would be served in the court rooms...an eye for an eye...tooth for a tooth. However, since God's ways are not our ways and His thoughts are not our thoughts, who can rightfully say what is just? Who can cast the first stone...in other words? Edited April 15, 2005 by vrspock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shyguy Posted April 15, 2005 Group: Junior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 13 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 89 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 6 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/06/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/09/1974 Author Share Posted April 15, 2005 " seperation and a bill of divorce are two different things. " A bill of divorce was given by Mosses not by God only because of the hardness of mens hearts and their unwillingness to do God's commandment in regards to the permemenancy of marriage. A seperation is to dissolve the marriage, not just to leave and stay somewhere else. Seperate means " To put Asunder " apart: into parts or pieces; "he took his father's watch apart"; "split apart"; "torn asunder" Mat 19:6 Therefore they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate When Christ returned everything returned to their original intention. When looking up the original word we can see that divorce was implied when looking at the greek meanings. Divorce was rampant then as it is now, heck even the apostles didnt like hearing these words. Matthew 19:10 His disciples said to Him, If this is the case of the man with his wife, it is not good to marry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VRSpock Posted April 15, 2005 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 34 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 304 Content Per Day: 0.09 Reputation: 4 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/09/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 06/24/1971 Share Posted April 15, 2005 " seperation and a bill of divorce are two different things. " A bill of divorce was given by Mosses not by God only because of the hardness of mens hearts and their unwillingness to do God's commandment in regards to the permemenancy of marriage. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> The point of Christ's message is that we are incapable of following God's commandments. We will always fall short...no matter what we do. Marriage and divorce are no exceptions. Because of man's fall from grace by departing from God in the garden of Eden, we are all in a huge nasty mess...and it is only through the blood of Christ that we can be cleansed of that mess. It is through no fault of our own that we are in the mess that we are in....we were born into it...it is our cursed inheritance. A man imprisoned by sin can only be set free by a free man. In Mark 9:42-50 Christ tells us to cut off our own hands...pluck out our own eyes..if we wish to enter into heaven. At first, these commandments sound sort of insane...and I doubt if anyone would actually follow them of their own free will. The intent of all of these laws and commandments is to show us that we cannot enter into heaven of our own means. Moses broke the ten commandments in half because every law God wrote was broken before the laws were even delivered unto Isreal. Oh how much we fall short of His expectations! I thank God for sacrificing His only begotten Son so that the veil that seperated us from God may be torn in half and we can stand before God on judgement day and claim the inheritance of the Kingdom of God that belongs to us! God is a just God and He knows what we are capable of. He doesn't make demands on us that He knows full well that we are incapable of fullfilling. He only expects us to do what we can and trust in Him and what Christ did for us for the rest. People who make up excuses for divorcing because of the sinful lusts of their hearts will get their reward. Those who are the victims of divorce because of hardened hearts are sanctified through His blood. God knows our hearts...there is nothing hidden from Him. Thomas I Believe once showed me an excellent little flash story. God commanded this guy to push against a rock with all of his might. So the man did for the rest of his life...he never managed to actually move the rock and the devil came to him and began to convince him that he had failed God. When God showed up He asked the man why he was so sad. The man said he had failed Him. God then explained to the man that He never expected him to actually move the rock...just to follow His commandment to "push against it with all of his might" and showed the man how he grew in strength over time as he pushed against that rock. Then God told him to stand back to let God move the rock for him. We are commanded daily to push against that rock with all of our might. We are never expected to actually move it...meaning we are expected to follow His laws to the best of our abilities...but we are never expected to make it into heaven by His laws alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bro David™ Posted April 15, 2005 Share Posted April 15, 2005 " seperation and a bill of divorce are two different things. " A bill of divorce was given by Mosses not by God only because of the hardness of mens hearts and their unwillingness to do God's commandment in regards to the permemenancy of marriage. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> The point of Christ's message is that we are incapable of following God's commandments. We will always fall short...no matter what we do. Marriage and divorce are no exceptions. Because of man's fall from grace by departing from God in the garden of Eden, we are all in a huge nasty mess...and it is only through the blood of Christ that we can be cleansed of that mess. It is through no fault of our own that we are in the mess that we are in....we were born into it...it is our cursed inheritance. A man imprisoned by sin can only be set free by a free man. In Mark 9:42-50 Christ tells us to cut off our own hands...pluck out our own eyes..if we wish to enter into heaven. At first, these commandments sound sort of insane...and I doubt if anyone would actually follow them of their own free will. The intent of all of these laws and commandments is to show us that we cannot enter into heaven of our own means. Moses broke the ten commandments in half because every law God wrote was broken before the laws were even delivered unto Isreal. Oh how much we fall short of His expectations! I thank God for sacrificing His only begotten Son so that the veil that seperated us from God may be torn in half and we can stand before God on judgement day and claim the inheritance of the Kingdom of God that belongs to us! God is a just God and He knows what we are capable of. He doesn't make demands on us that He knows full well that we are incapable of fullfilling. He only expects us to do what we can and trust in Him and what Christ did for us for the rest. People who make up excuses for divorcing because of the sinful lusts of their hearts will get their reward. Those who are the victims of divorce because of hardened hearts are sanctified through His blood. God knows our hearts...there is nothing hidden from Him. Thomas I Believe once showed me an excellent little flash story. God commanded this guy to push against a rock with all of his might. So the man did for the rest of his life...he never managed to actually move the rock and the devil came to him and began to convince him that he had failed God. When God showed up He asked the man why he was so sad. The man said he had failed Him. God then explained to the man that He never expected him to actually move the rock...just to follow His commandment to "push against it with all of his might" and showed the man how he grew in strength over time as he pushed against that rock. Then God told him to stand back to let God move the rock for him. We are commanded daily to push against that rock with all of our might. We are never expected to actually move it...meaning we are expected to follow His laws to the best of our abilities...but we are never expected to make it into heaven by His laws alone. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> We are all un-worthy indeed. Push and push we will ...untill He who made the stars comes back in all His Glory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IslandRose Posted April 25, 2005 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 476 Topics Per Day: 0.06 Content Count: 5,266 Content Per Day: 0.68 Reputation: 63 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/21/1954 Share Posted April 25, 2005 ShyGuy, Excellent study on marriage. I do believe you have told it exactly as God meant it to be. I do have compassion on those who have found themselves in bad marriages, and I do not believe any woman should stay with a man who makes her his punching bag, but I agree that even in those cases remarriage is not in God's plan. Rather, one should give the rest of their lives over to serving God as best they can in their single state. For those already remarried, those couples should also thank God that He is the God of the second chance and give their lives and marriage to Him and serve Him in every way they can. IR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fisher of Men Posted May 7, 2005 Group: Junior Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 85 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/23/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted May 7, 2005 Shyguy wrote: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts