About Jesus

[101G]

6 hours ago, shiloh357 said:

No, that is not the case at all.   Jesus and the Holy Spirit are two separate persons in the Godhead/Trinity.

First thanks for the response. lets see what the scriptures say. John 14:16-18 "And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever 17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you".

question, when did the Lord Jesus come to them, (meaning his apostles)?. 

[Guest shiloh357]

12 minutes ago, 101G said:

First thanks for the response. lets see what the scriptures say. John 14:16-18 "And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever 17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you".

question, when did the Lord Jesus come to them, (meaning his apostles)?. 

He came to them after He rose from the dead and was with them for 40 days after His resurrection.

Jesus cannot be the Holy Spirit if He is referring to the Holy Spirit in the third person pronouns of "he" and "him."  To say they are the same person simply defies very words of Jesus who spoke of the Holy Spirit who would come later.   Furthermore, the Bible always treats the Holy Spirit as separate from Jesus.

[101G]

6 hours ago, TheMatrixHasU71 said:

Sorry that is wrong; Jesus is not the Holy Spirit. Jesus is not the Father. Jesus is not the Holy Ghost. Jesus is the second person of the Trinity, God the Son. 

If Jesus was the holy Ghost He would not be speaking of the Spirit in the third person. Jesus would not send Himself.

John 14:16 

And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter (another person, not Jesus), that he may abide with you for ever;

John 14:26

But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

First thanks for the response. but is not the Lord Jesus the "offspring", and the "Root" of David. and is not the root Spirit. and is not the "offspring", resurrected, spirit?. so as I stated, the Lord Jesus is the diversity, or the "offspring" of God in flesh, (the Son).  and as you stated, the Holy Spirit is the comforter. but was it not "ANOTHER" Comforter to come? YES, and do not "another", G243 Allos, according to vine dictionary,   expresses a numerical difference and denotes another of the same sort". a numerical difference means more than one, but the definition states "the same SORT". and sort here means the same nature, same class, same kind, and  the same category, which the Lord Jesus is in, the Godhead. 

 

second, the Holy Spirit is the comforter. is not the Lord Jesus the Comforter? scripture, 1 John 2:1 "My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous".

advocate here is the Greek word, G3875 παράκλητος parakletos (pa-ra'-klee-tos) n.
1. (properly) one called near (to give help).
2. an intercessor (one who entreats of behalf of another).
3. a comforter.
[(not given)]
KJV: advocate, comforter 

[101G]

3 minutes ago, shiloh357 said:

He came to them after He rose from the dead and was with them for 40 days after His resurrection.

Jesus cannot be the Holy Spirit if He is referring to the Holy Spirit in the third person pronouns of "he" and "him."  To say they are the same person simply defies very words of Jesus who spoke of the Holy Spirit who would come later.   Furthermore, the Bible always treats the Holy Spirit as separate from Jesus.

again thanks for the response. I believe you error, for if he came to them for forty days and then left. why did he say in Matthew 28:19 & 20 "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: 20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen". if the Lord Jesus is with them always even unto the end of the World. then he must be a. with then while they, (the disciples/apostles) was here. b. now, because the word have not ended. 

 

so the 40 days of coming to them and then leaving want work. 

[101G]

1 minute ago, Yowm said:

That's right, God is one and the Persons of the Trinity are of One essence. Hence allos and not heteros (of a different kind).

I must disagree, do not your doctrine states the father is not the son, or the Holy Spirit, and vice versa. so  essence want work here either. 

second, another is expressed in our English Language as G243 allos, or G2087 heteros. and if they are separate PERSON, then one person have one essence, and then another person have a  separate essance, because the definition of a "PERSON" is a human being regarded as an individual. and  individual means one. and if separate, each have an essence of G2087 heteros. but if you use G243 allos, then there is no separation, and Phil 2:6 is confirm. 

 

take your pick. 

[missmuffet]

11 minutes ago, 101G said:

I must disagree, do not your doctrine states the father is not the son, or the Holy Spirit, and vice versa. so  essence want work here either. 

second, another is expressed in our English Language as G243 allos, or G2087 heteros. and if they are separate PERSON, then one person have one essence, and then another person have a  separate essance, because the definition of a "PERSON" is a human being regarded as an individual. and  individual means one. and if separate, each have an essence of G2087 heteros. but if you use G243 allos, then there is no separation, and Phil 2:6 is confirm. 

 

take your pick. 

There are many scriptures to support the Holy Trinity.

Question: "What does the Bible teach about the Trinity?"

Answer: The most difficult thing about the Christian concept of the Trinity is that there is no way to perfectly and completely understand it. The Trinity is a concept that is impossible for any human being to fully understand, let alone explain. God is infinitely greater than we are; therefore, we should not expect to be able to fully understand Him. The Bible teaches that the Father is God, that Jesus is God, and that the Holy Spirit is God. The Bible also teaches that there is only one God. Though we can understand some facts about the relationship of the different Persons of the Trinity to one another, ultimately, it is incomprehensible to the human mind. However, this does not mean the Trinity is not true or that it is not based on the teachings of the Bible.
 

The Trinity is one God existing in three Persons. Understand that this is not in any way suggesting three Gods. Keep in mind when studying this subject that the word “Trinity” is not found in Scripture. This is a term that is used to attempt to describe the triune God—three coexistent, co-eternal Persons who are God. Of real importance is that the concept represented by the word “Trinity” does exist in Scripture. The following is what God’s Word says about the Trinity:

1) There is one God (Deuteronomy 6:4; 1 Corinthians 8:4; Galatians 3:20; 1 Timothy 2:5).

2) The Trinity consists of three Persons (Genesis 1:1, 26; 3:22; 11:7; Isaiah 6:8, 48:16, 61:1; Matthew 3:16-17, 28:19; 2 Corinthians 13:14). In Genesis 1:1, the Hebrew plural noun "Elohim" is used. In Genesis 1:26, 3:22, 11:7 and Isaiah 6:8, the plural pronoun for “us” is used. The word "Elohim" and the pronoun “us” are plural forms, definitely referring in the Hebrew language to more than two. While this is not an explicit argument for the Trinity, it does denote the aspect of plurality in God. The Hebrew word for "God," "Elohim," definitely allows for the Trinity.

In Isaiah 48:16 and 61:1, the Son is speaking while making reference to the Father and the Holy Spirit. Compare Isaiah 61:1 to Luke 4:14-19 to see that it is the Son speaking. Matthew 3:16-17 describes the event of Jesus' baptism. Seen in this passage is God the Holy Spirit descending on God the Son while God the Father proclaims His pleasure in the Son. Matthew 28:19 and 2 Corinthians 13:14 are examples of three distinct Persons in the Trinity.

3) The members of the Trinity are distinguished one from another in various passages. In the Old Testament, “LORD” is distinguished from “Lord” (Genesis 19:24; Hosea 1:4). The LORD has a Son (Psalm 2:7, 12; Proverbs 30:2-4). The Spirit is distinguished from the “LORD” (Numbers 27:18) and from “God” (Psalm 51:10-12). God the Son is distinguished from God the Father (Psalm 45:6-7; Hebrews 1:8-9). In the New Testament, Jesus speaks to the Father about sending a Helper, the Holy Spirit (John 14:16-17). This shows that Jesus did not consider Himself to be the Father or the Holy Spirit. Consider also all the other times in the Gospels where Jesus speaks to the Father. Was He speaking to Himself? No. He spoke to another Person in the Trinity—the Father.

4) Each member of the Trinity is God. The Father is God (John 6:27; Romans 1:7; 1 Peter 1:2). The Son is God (John 1:1, 14; Romans 9:5; Colossians 2:9; Hebrews 1:8; 1 John 5:20). The Holy Spirit is God (Acts 5:3-4; 1 Corinthians 3:16).

5) There is subordination within the Trinity. Scripture shows that the Holy Spirit is subordinate to the Father and the Son, and the Son is subordinate to the Father. This is an internal relationship and does not deny the deity of any Person of the Trinity. This is simply an area which our finite minds cannot understand concerning the infinite God. Concerning the Son see Luke 22:42, John 5:36, John 20:21, and 1 John 4:14. Concerning the Holy Spirit see John 14:16, 14:26, 15:26, 16:7, and especially John 16:13-14.

6) The individual members of the Trinity have different tasks. The Father is the ultimate source or cause of the universe (1 Corinthians 8:6; Revelation 4:11); divine revelation (Revelation 1:1); salvation (John 3:16-17); and Jesus' human works (John 5:17; 14:10). The Father initiates all of these things.

The Son is the agent through whom the Father does the following works: the creation and maintenance of the universe (1 Corinthians 8:6; John 1:3; Colossians 1:16-17); divine revelation (John 1:1, 16:12-15; Matthew 11:27; Revelation 1:1); and salvation (2 Corinthians 5:19; Matthew 1:21; John 4:42). The Father does all these things through the Son, who functions as His agent.

The Holy Spirit is the means by whom the Father does the following works: creation and maintenance of the universe (Genesis 1:2; Job 26:13; Psalm 104:30); divine revelation (John 16:12-15; Ephesians 3:5; 2 Peter 1:21); salvation (John 3:6; Titus 3:5; 1 Peter 1:2); and Jesus' works (Isaiah 61:1; Acts 10:38). Thus, the Father does all these things by the power of the Holy Spirit.

There have been many attempts to develop illustrations of the Trinity. However, none of the popular illustrations are completely accurate. The egg (or apple) fails in that the shell, white, and yolk are parts of the egg, not the egg in themselves, just as the skin, flesh, and seeds of the apple are parts of it, not the apple itself. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are not parts of God; each of them is God. The water illustration is somewhat better, but it still fails to adequately describe the Trinity. Liquid, vapor, and ice are forms of water. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are not forms of God, each of them is God. So, while these illustrations may give us a picture of the Trinity, the picture is not entirely accurate. An infinite God cannot be fully described by a finite illustration.

The doctrine of the Trinity has been a divisive issue throughout the entire history of the Christian church. While the core aspects of the Trinity are clearly presented in God’s Word, some of the side issues are not as explicitly clear. The Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God—but there is only one God. That is the biblical doctrine of the Trinity. Beyond that, the issues are, to a certain extent, debatable and non-essential. Rather than attempting to fully define the Trinity with our finite human minds, we would be better served by focusing on the fact of God's greatness and His infinitely higher nature. “Oh, the depth of the riches of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable his judgments, and his paths beyond tracing out! Who has known the mind of the Lord? Or who has been his counselor?” (Romans 11:33-34).

https://www.gotquestions.org/Trinity-Bible.html

[101G]

2 minutes ago, missmuffet said:

There are many scriptures to support the Holy Trinity.

Question: "What does the Bible teach about the Trinity?"

Answer: The most difficult thing about the Christian concept of the Trinity is that there is no way to perfectly and completely understand it. The Trinity is a concept that is impossible for any human being to fully understand, let alone explain. God is infinitely greater than we are; therefore, we should not expect to be able to fully understand Him. The Bible teaches that the Father is God, that Jesus is God, and that the Holy Spirit is God. The Bible also teaches that there is only one God. Though we can understand some facts about the relationship of the different Persons of the Trinity to one another, ultimately, it is incomprehensible to the human mind. However, this does not mean the Trinity is not true or that it is not based on the teachings of the Bible.
 

The Trinity is one God existing in three Persons. Understand that this is not in any way suggesting three Gods. Keep in mind when studying this subject that the word “Trinity” is not found in Scripture. This is a term that is used to attempt to describe the triune God—three coexistent, co-eternal Persons who are God. Of real importance is that the concept represented by the word “Trinity” does exist in Scripture. The following is what God’s Word says about the Trinity:

1) There is one God (Deuteronomy 6:4; 1 Corinthians 8:4; Galatians 3:20; 1 Timothy 2:5).

2) The Trinity consists of three Persons (Genesis 1:1, 26; 3:22; 11:7; Isaiah 6:8, 48:16, 61:1; Matthew 3:16-17, 28:19; 2 Corinthians 13:14). In Genesis 1:1, the Hebrew plural noun "Elohim" is used. In Genesis 1:26, 3:22, 11:7 and Isaiah 6:8, the plural pronoun for “us” is used. The word "Elohim" and the pronoun “us” are plural forms, definitely referring in the Hebrew language to more than two. While this is not an explicit argument for the Trinity, it does denote the aspect of plurality in God. The Hebrew word for "God," "Elohim," definitely allows for the Trinity.

In Isaiah 48:16 and 61:1, the Son is speaking while making reference to the Father and the Holy Spirit. Compare Isaiah 61:1 to Luke 4:14-19 to see that it is the Son speaking. Matthew 3:16-17 describes the event of Jesus' baptism. Seen in this passage is God the Holy Spirit descending on God the Son while God the Father proclaims His pleasure in the Son. Matthew 28:19 and 2 Corinthians 13:14 are examples of three distinct Persons in the Trinity.

3) The members of the Trinity are distinguished one from another in various passages. In the Old Testament, “LORD” is distinguished from “Lord” (Genesis 19:24; Hosea 1:4). The LORD has a Son (Psalm 2:7, 12; Proverbs 30:2-4). The Spirit is distinguished from the “LORD” (Numbers 27:18) and from “God” (Psalm 51:10-12). God the Son is distinguished from God the Father (Psalm 45:6-7; Hebrews 1:8-9). In the New Testament, Jesus speaks to the Father about sending a Helper, the Holy Spirit (John 14:16-17). This shows that Jesus did not consider Himself to be the Father or the Holy Spirit. Consider also all the other times in the Gospels where Jesus speaks to the Father. Was He speaking to Himself? No. He spoke to another Person in the Trinity—the Father.

4) Each member of the Trinity is God. The Father is God (John 6:27; Romans 1:7; 1 Peter 1:2). The Son is God (John 1:1, 14; Romans 9:5; Colossians 2:9; Hebrews 1:8; 1 John 5:20). The Holy Spirit is God (Acts 5:3-4; 1 Corinthians 3:16).

5) There is subordination within the Trinity. Scripture shows that the Holy Spirit is subordinate to the Father and the Son, and the Son is subordinate to the Father. This is an internal relationship and does not deny the deity of any Person of the Trinity. This is simply an area which our finite minds cannot understand concerning the infinite God. Concerning the Son see Luke 22:42, John 5:36, John 20:21, and 1 John 4:14. Concerning the Holy Spirit see John 14:16, 14:26, 15:26, 16:7, and especially John 16:13-14.

6) The individual members of the Trinity have different tasks. The Father is the ultimate source or cause of the universe (1 Corinthians 8:6; Revelation 4:11); divine revelation (Revelation 1:1); salvation (John 3:16-17); and Jesus' human works (John 5:17; 14:10). The Father initiates all of these things.

The Son is the agent through whom the Father does the following works: the creation and maintenance of the universe (1 Corinthians 8:6; John 1:3; Colossians 1:16-17); divine revelation (John 1:1, 16:12-15; Matthew 11:27; Revelation 1:1); and salvation (2 Corinthians 5:19; Matthew 1:21; John 4:42). The Father does all these things through the Son, who functions as His agent.

The Holy Spirit is the means by whom the Father does the following works: creation and maintenance of the universe (Genesis 1:2; Job 26:13; Psalm 104:30); divine revelation (John 16:12-15; Ephesians 3:5; 2 Peter 1:21); salvation (John 3:6; Titus 3:5; 1 Peter 1:2); and Jesus' works (Isaiah 61:1; Acts 10:38). Thus, the Father does all these things by the power of the Holy Spirit.

There have been many attempts to develop illustrations of the Trinity. However, none of the popular illustrations are completely accurate. The egg (or apple) fails in that the shell, white, and yolk are parts of the egg, not the egg in themselves, just as the skin, flesh, and seeds of the apple are parts of it, not the apple itself. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are not parts of God; each of them is God. The water illustration is somewhat better, but it still fails to adequately describe the Trinity. Liquid, vapor, and ice are forms of water. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are not forms of God, each of them is God. So, while these illustrations may give us a picture of the Trinity, the picture is not entirely accurate. An infinite God cannot be fully described by a finite illustration.

The doctrine of the Trinity has been a divisive issue throughout the entire history of the Christian church. While the core aspects of the Trinity are clearly presented in God’s Word, some of the side issues are not as explicitly clear. The Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God—but there is only one God. That is the biblical doctrine of the Trinity. Beyond that, the issues are, to a certain extent, debatable and non-essential. Rather than attempting to fully define the Trinity with our finite human minds, we would be better served by focusing on the fact of God's greatness and His infinitely higher nature. “Oh, the depth of the riches of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable his judgments, and his paths beyond tracing out! Who has known the mind of the Lord? Or who has been his counselor?” (Romans 11:33-34).

https://www.gotquestions.org/Trinity-Bible.html

 

First thank for the response. I have read many of the concerns/scriptures you posted. but understand this, I do believe in ONE God, it's just the number Person(s) I don't believe in. as you posted those scripture they do not directly clarify the the PERSON Issue. I believe, many misunderstand a title vs a person. if you will, may I ask a question that directly address the PERSON issue vs a title. 

in the book of Revelation, it's about the REVEALING of Jesus Christ right.  person(s) or title, Revelation 1:1 "The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John". Question, who sent his angel to John. was it A. the Father, or B. the Son/Jesus. but before you answer it, check with Revelation 22:6 first, for the angel gives the title of who sent him, and then answer, who was it A or B. 

 

thanks in advance.

[101G]

6 minutes ago, Yowm said:

No, God is one consisting of three Persons, not three Gods.

thanks, I say there is only one PERSON in the Godhead diversified. if you will please answer the question I posed to  missmuffet, the Revelation 1:1 question.

[Guest shiloh357]

50 minutes ago, 101G said:

again thanks for the response. I believe you error, for if he came to them for forty days and then left. why did he say in Matthew 28:19 & 20 "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: 20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen". if the Lord Jesus is with them always even unto the end of the World. then he must be a. with then while they, (the disciples/apostles) was here. b. now, because the word have not ended. 

 

so the 40 days of coming to them and then leaving want work. 

Do you not believe in the Trinity?  If Jesus is the Holy Spirit, then why did Jesus speak of the Holy Spirit as a separate Person?   Why did He  call the Holy Spirit "He" if He is the Holy Spirit?   How do you explain that?

[missmuffet]

21 minutes ago, 101G said:

First thank for the response. I have read many of the concerns/scriptures you posted. but understand this, I do believe in ONE God, it's just the number Person(s) I don't believe in. as you posted those scripture they do not directly clarify the the PERSON Issue. I believe, many misunderstand a title vs a person. if you will, may I ask a question that directly address the PERSON issue vs a title. 

in the book of Revelation, it's about the REVEALING of Jesus Christ right.  person(s) or title, Revelation 1:1 "The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John". Question, who sent his angel to John. was it A. the Father, or B. the Son/Jesus. but before you answer it, check with Revelation 22:6 first, for the angel gives the title of who sent him, and then answer, who was it A or B. 

 

thanks in advance.

I reject your theology as to the Holy Trinity.