Just what is Legalism anyway?

[GreyDestiny]

Like, you see so many people on this site going on and on about "legalists" like following a law is a bad thing, but at the same time, these same people have their own laws that they hold dear. Oh, don't worry about wearing a low-cut shirt and miniskirt, we are saved by grace, not by law... But oops! Don't go having sex with another person of the same sex, that's wicked!

Is it so wrong to believe that one must adhere to both law and faith? That there are things you do and things you don't do, and that you either do or don't do these things based on what is within your heart? You help people because you truly love the world and your heart is filled with light. You sin and blaspheme because you hate the gift of life and your heart is hard and dark... But then you have dishonest people who help out others but only because it is written in word, and people who wish to make the world a better place but continuously contribute to the issues. Law without faith is empty. Faith without law is foolishness.

"Legalism" is just a buzzword for anything someone disagrees with, near as I can tell. 

[simplejeff]

19 minutes ago, GreyDestiny said:

"Legalism" is just a buzzword for anything someone disagrees with, near as I can tell. 

It is likely much worse than that.   But we cannot do anything about that on this site.   For persons seeking the truth or salvation,  a forum open to the public is about as helpful as Athens is for those in Greece - i.e. no help, with a few exceptions.    This is like a grocery store with 80% of the prepared foods processed with things that break down the strength of a persons immune system, blood,  or brain --- and warnings are in fine print no one reads most of the time. (like the warnings of death and disease in the patient package inserts with every medicine given by a clinic or doctor).

What is that old Latin phrase ?   caveat emptor ?  "buyer beware" -  Every visitor must beware, or be aware,  that nothing is as it seems in this world,  what the world says is 'safe', is dangerous,  and what the world says is dangerous, may be safe.  Test, test, test,  test everything before believing it. 

As God Says in His Word,   "Take Care"  about what you listen to,  "GUARD" your heart above all things (don't glibly listen to and accept lies naively, no matter from where) ....

[Jayne]

Legalism is actually not a buzzword.  It's a problem and has plagued people long before Christianity came to be.

The Pharisees, scribes, and more were entrenched in it. Their obedience to the law was meticulous,  yet their hearts were vile.

Legalism is when you one or more of the following three things.

[1]  Add works of men as requirements for God's salvation of you.  No one admits to this, but scores of people do.  Like adding baptism, church ritual, and/or speaking in tongues to BE saved.

 

[2]  Add works of men as requirements for God's sanctification of you.  You may do certain works or change your works or deeds AS God is sanctifying you, but your works don't force God's hand in the process.  Untold amounts of people believe their works score them brownie points with God, and he winks and pats their head for it and says, "Look how special you are and look how terrible everyone else is!".  That's not how sanctification works.  God chastens, humbles, rebuke, loves, and draws you.  After those dealings with God, you may absolutely change your works and deeds, but it will be a humble process and for God's glory and not to brag and beat others about the head.  God initiates it all.

 

[3] Add works of men as requirements for God to revive the church.  OY VE!!  This is a plaguing one!  There are church ALL OVER trying their best to get revival started.  Some have work on this for years.  They will start this prayer program and that Bible study program and Wednesday night suppers and call for people to come and lay their cigarettes on the altar and wail/cry during the altar call and increasing the giving programs.......STOP!   Revival doesn't come because man initiates it.  Revival come when God initiates it.  What should the church to invite revival?  Repent and follow the leadership of the Holy Spirit.  ACTING holy won't do it.  ACTING sanctimonious won't do it.

 

Those are the three examples of legalism.  And legalism is all about putting man's works either in equal status with the works of God or in place of the works of God.

 

 

Edited February 10, 2018 by Jayne

[simplejeff]

29 minutes ago, Yowm said:

1. Imposing dos and donts that have no biblical warrant, expressed or implied. e.g. playing cards for fun

In Corrie ten Boom's Biography,  if you can find it (I don't know if it is available to read online or not)

see what she learned from YHVH the Creator through Jesus about this.   (not as you have been taught nor how you think or believe)

[simplejeff]

1 hour ago, simplejeff said:

1 hour ago, Yowm said:

1. Imposing dos and donts that have no biblical warrant, expressed or implied. e.g. playing cards for fun

In Corrie ten Boom's Biography,  if you can find it (I don't know if it is available to read online or not)

see what she learned from YHVH the Creator through Jesus about this.   (not as you have been taught nor how you think or believe)

 

[simplejeff]

"When there's something in the Bible that churches don't like, they call it 'legalism.'"

http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=16243&forum=34

[simplejeff]

(Decades ago) :

"God is taking His hands off of America. We've had so much light and we've rejected it.

The early church was married to poverty, prisons and persecutions. Today, the church is married to prosperity, personality, and popularity.

How can you have a dead service with a living Christ?

Fifty years ago, you never heard of a divorce in the Christian church. You never (even) heard of marriage counseling in the church... We're putting up with sin in the church.

I believe every church is either supernatural or superficial. I don't believe there's any middle ground.

You hear people say in church, "Lord, You're welcome!" If the Holy Ghost came to some churches, there would be a stampede to the door.

If the church was doing their business, the psychologists wouldn't dare to sing their dumb song.

One good Baptist (once) said to Dr. Tozer, "If God withdrew the Holy Spirit tomorrow, my church would function just the same; we wouldn't even know He was gone."

The church is supposed to do what? To stop corruption? Is the church doing that? No! The world is corrupting the church!

If I don't believe the Word of God, why should you believe it? If we don't believe it, why should the world believe us?

We're blind to the fact (that) we have an obligation to five billion people in the world. This generation of Christians is responsible for this generation of lost souls!

Our blessings have become a curse. They attract us. They take too much of our time and concern.

There isn't a "Pentecostal" Church in America. If there is, tell me where it is.

In the early church, signs and wonders and miracles followed. They cast out demons, blindness and paralysis. That's normal Christianity! We're so sub-normal, if we ever became normal, they (the world) will think we're abnormal.

I'm astounded, bewildered, confused, baffled when people tell me there are 75 million people in America that are filled with the Holy Ghost and we're the most rotten nation on earth.

I want to see a fellowship where your burdens become mine! Your grief over your children becomes my grief! Where we really bear each other's burdens; where we love each other and let the world come and see that we are the followers of the meek and lowly Jesus who cared only to do the will of His Father.

I wish, in America, (that) we were as concerned about separation from church and sin as we are about separation between church and state. Church and sin-- it's a monstrous problem.

 

https://www.gospeltruth.net/ravenhill.htm

[simplejeff]

9 minutes ago, Yowm said:

I don't buy the Shangra-la imagery of the early Church but I do respect those that endured hardships and severe persecutions.

Sorry,  you are so far out in left field.  Those who know the early ekklesia (not church) before the wolves that circled came in to tear the flock apart , after the Apostles were gone,  - the early ekklesia INCLUDING at Corinth, 

of whom YHVH SAYS much in His Word (in the Bible) that is ignored for many centuries by most 'church(es)' ,  would know that the best in the US doesn't even hold a candle to them !    More later if YHVH permits.  For reference if you can find it , if it is available still,  see the difference in Hebrew VS Greek.... (lives, Scriptures, religious practices, etc ) ...

[simplejeff]

3 minutes ago, Yowm said:

Left field? No I was a pitcher. lol

I guess you didn't read 1Cor 5:1-2 written when the Apostles were there. Actually read all of 1Corinthians, it ws quite a carnal Church.

How about that !    Even so,  if you are able to read with God's Understanding granted,  (which of course we all must seek and only God can grant),   you will be embarrassed , very possibly (and hopefully, in realization,and mercy, and grace and truth) ashamed, at the state of the 'church' today,  now.  

Just reading Leonard Ravenhill's quotes,  or his sermons ,  is very convicting and convincing to everyone seeking YHVH'S WORD, YHVH'S Way, and YHVH'S KINDGOM in Jesus, in line with YHVH'S PLAN.

 

More later as YHVH Permits.

[frienduff thaylorde]

1 hour ago, Yowm said:

The 1st Century Church was often no paragon of virtue as well...

It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and of a kind that is not tolerated even among pagans, for a man has his father's wife. And you are arrogant! Ought you not rather to mourn? Let him who has done this be removed from among you. (1Co 5:1-2)

But I have a few things against you: you have some there who hold the teaching of Balaam, who taught Balak to put a stumbling block before the sons of Israel, so that they might eat food sacrificed to idols and practice sexual immorality.
(Rev 2:14)
 

I don't buy the Shangra-la imagery of the early Church but I do respect those that endured hardships and severe persecutions.

 

No doubts their .   man , but one thing they had that i aint found in one church i visited

WERE REAL MEN that actually do something about the sin issues and follow the pattern of correction.

Even now when ones remind , are grave , serious doing all out of REAL LOVE to warn , encourage , just stir up

the overwhelming mass just mocks at them and says they don't know love.  

SEE the real men of the real church,  THEMS correct and do so fast.  real fast .   so sorry most attack those .