Guest shiloh357 Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 Just now, frienduff thaylorde said: Just bask in the beauty of a testimony Shiloh j316 No, you need to stay on topic. This is not a testimony thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frienduff thaylorde Posted February 16, 2018 Group: Mars Hill Followers: 17 Topic Count: 18 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 13,256 Content Per Day: 5.33 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 62 Joined: 07/07/2017 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/25/1972 Share Posted February 16, 2018 1 minute ago, shiloh357 said: No, you need to stay on topic. This is not a testimony thread. Okay. clear and to the point this will be . ATTENTION all christains SIN IS SIN and theretofore we cannot make any excuse for it . we simply say in black and white and we don't use the testimony of wordly trained professionals to try and reason out why THIS SIN should not be seen as sin but instead as a victim and thus wont be held accountable for it , lest they repent of it of course . Any thought or feeling or whatever the world tries and deems it , any attraction towards same sex. IT IS SIN period . Theretofore instead of making excuse for it as though its a gentic disorder, or whatever , Call it what it is , SIN , EVIL at work by the flesh that is contrary , and must be killed , crucified dead by the POWER of Christ. We don't try and reason WHY men do as they do , we simply correct the EVIL . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retrobyter Posted February 17, 2018 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 9 Topic Count: 40 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 6,596 Content Per Day: 1.07 Reputation: 2,446 Days Won: 1 Joined: 06/28/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/28/1957 Share Posted February 17, 2018 18 hours ago, shiloh357 said: The attraction is sinful. Sin doesn't begin when you act on it. It begins with the attraction. And part of the problem is that you are making arguments that really only apply to heterosexuality. I can be sinlessly attracted to the opposite sex. There is no biblical scenario where it is okay to be attracted to something sinful, so long as I don't act on it. You're thinking like the world, not like a Christian. Shabbat shalom, shiloh. NO! Sin does NOT begin with the attraction. The TEMPTATION begins with the attraction! Don't you think that Yeshua` was attracted to that bread that haSatan suggested He make when he tempted Him? After 40 days and nights, the temptation was very real! BUT, the temptation was NOT sin! Would it have been wrong for Yeshua` to turn those stones into bread? Doesn't it depend on the motivation? If His motives were self-serving and He had made the transformation, would He have sinned? YES! The attraction is not natural, but it is not yet a sin! They can be INNOCENTLY attracted to the wrong gender! They just need to know that it's not NATURAL! They need to be TAUGHT not to pursue such attraction! They need to be TAUGHT that it's not natural OR what God wants for them! While they have not given in to LUSTING after the wrong gender, they are yet INNOCENT! That's all I'm saying! I'm not sticking up for the sin! And, when they cross the line, they are sinners, the same as ANYONE is when they steal a cookie or tell a lie aganst another! 18 hours ago, shiloh357 said: LOL, I am not going to lose any sleep worried about my "credibility" with the Sodomites; I could not care less what they think. I am more concerned with staying faithful to the Word of God and what it teaches. Do you know that this was PRECISELY what the "Separatists" (Hebrew: P'rushiym = "Pharisees") believed? Why do you think they looked down their long noses at Yeshua` who was hob-nobbing with the low-lifes, the "undesirables?" 18 hours ago, shiloh357 said: If that is what you believe, then you will have to abandon the claim that homosexuals are hardwired to be gay, as you stated previously. You can't have it both ways. Sure I can, because the temptation and the allure to such temptation IS NOT SIN! One can have "homosexual TENDANCIES," without actually living the homosexual LIFESTYLE! And, those "homosexual TENDANCIES" may start with a mixed-up hardwiring, thanks to this world's predisposition to such sin! That doesn't make them sinners, YET! WHEN THEY CROSS THE LINE and give in to those tendancies and CONSIDER FOLLOWING that act and/or lifestyle, THEN they are sinning! Why is that so hard for you to understand?! 18 hours ago, shiloh357 said: I agree that it comes from sin and is a sin. I reject any claim that it is hardwired into anyone. It seems like you toggle back and forth between calling it a sin and then trying to justify it as something that is hardwired into them. You need to pick a position and land on it. I've got my position and have absolute confidence in what I believe, because I know that it agrees with what I read in the Scriptures. It's YOU I worry about! How can you HOPE to love the sinner as Yeshua` did the prostitutes and crooked tax-collectors of His day, when you can't separate the sin from the sinner? 18 hours ago, shiloh357 said: There is no non-sinful source for sinful attraction. That makes no sense. Aw, sure there is. Did you know they did studies with over population in rats? Rats stick to male-on-female tendancies in low populations, but in higher populations - when the rats are crowded together, they have a greater tendancy to male-on-male and female-on-female acts! Are these rats "sinning?" Your problem is that you can't tell the difference between a temptation and a sin. 18 hours ago, shiloh357 said: In heterosexuality, yes; in homosexuality, no. The problem is that you are defending homosexual attraction like it is an exact moral parallel to heterosexuality. It's as if you think that the principles that govern heterosexuality taught in the Bible apply to homosexuality and same-sex attraction in the same way. Nope. You've DEFINITELY misunderstood me, and that's okay. I get it. However, you should know that I am NOT "defending homosexual attraction!" I am merely saying that the attraction alone is not the sin! God's Word, particularly Romans 1 and 2, teach us that it is not natural to have homosexual attraction, but Paul also noted... Romans 1:26-27 (KJV) 26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections (Greek: eis pathee atimias = "into disgraceful passions"): for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: 27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error (sin) which was meet (fitting). Romans 2:1-11 (KJV) 1 Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things. 2 But we are sure that the judgment of God is according to truth against them which commit such things. 3 And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God? 4 Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance? 5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; 6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds: 7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life: 8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, 9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; 10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: 11 For there is no respect of persons with God. Tell me again. What were Yeshua`s commandments? Matthew 22:34-40 (KJV) 34 But when the Pharisees had heard that he had put the Sadducees to silence, they were gathered together. 35 Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying, 36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law? 37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets. And, do you remember how Yeshua` answered the Paruwsh's question? Luke 10:25-37 (KJV) 25 And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life? 26 He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou? 27 And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself. 28 And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live. 29 But he, willing to justify himself, said unto Jesus, And who is my neighbour? 30 And Jesus answering said, A certain man went down from Jerusalem to Jericho, and fell among thieves, which stripped him of his raiment, and wounded him, and departed, leaving him half dead. 31 And by chance there came down a certain priest that way: and when he saw him, he passed by on the other side. 32 And likewise a Levite, when he was at the place, came and looked on him, and passed by on the other side. 33 But a certain Samaritan, as he journeyed, came where he was: and when he saw him, he had compassion on him, 34 And went to him, and bound up his wounds, pouring in oil and wine, and set him on his own beast, and brought him to an inn, and took care of him. 35 And on the morrow when he departed, he took out two pence, and gave them to the host, and said unto him, Take care of him; and whatsoever thou spendest more, when I come again, I will repay thee. 36 Which now of these three, thinkest thou, was neighbour unto him that fell among the thieves? 37 And he said, He that shewed mercy on him. Then said Jesus unto him, Go, and do thou likewise. Do you yet understand? The question is not, "Who is my neighbor?" It's "To whom am I to be a neighbor?" And, the answer is, "ANYONE ... EVERYONE ... who is in need!" Don't you think the homosexuals are "in need," even if they can't recognize it themselves? 18 hours ago, shiloh357 said: And that confirms my previous point, that you are treating this as if it is morally parallel in principle to how we treat attraction between men and women. That is one of the fundamental flaws of your argument. NO! Again, the attraction is flawed! HOWEVER, that's not THEIR sin! That is the ... twisting ... of God's Creation that they inherited because we live in a fallen world! The attraction itself is not where they sin! It's when they themselves LUST for the same gender and when they commit ACTS of homosexuality that they commit sin! 18 hours ago, shiloh357 said: That is a human line of reasoning, not a biblical one. The Bible doesn't allow for genetic mutation as an excuse to nurse a sinful attraction. It's not an "excuse"; it's an "EXPLANATION." Genetic mutation is not a good-enough excuse for them to go on sinning; but it does EXPLAIN how they may have been sucked in so easily in the beginning of their crimes against God! 18 hours ago, shiloh357 said: If it is genetic, then it isn't sinful. EXACTLY! But, I'm ONLY talking about the ATTRACTION to the sin, not the sin itself! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simplejeff Posted February 17, 2018 Group: Mars Hill Followers: 12 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7,689 Content Per Day: 2.38 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 20 Joined: 06/30/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted February 17, 2018 NO! Yeshua was certainly and absolutely NOT attracted to the bread. Hasatan had nothing in HIM to attract HIM nor to cause HIM to sin. Likewise, Yeshua was certainly and absolutely NOT attracted to women nor to men in any way in the flesh nor inappropriately at all. This is also true of a few children who are RAISED IN THE WAY THEY SHOULD GO ! (like Joseph and Mary and several others throughout Scripture and possibly the 144,000 ) i.e. not just Yeshua, but His children also (not all of them, but some) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retrobyter Posted February 17, 2018 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 9 Topic Count: 40 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 6,596 Content Per Day: 1.07 Reputation: 2,446 Days Won: 1 Joined: 06/28/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/28/1957 Share Posted February 17, 2018 (edited) 22 hours ago, Sojourner414 said: If homosexual attraction is claimed to be a "genetic mutation", then where is the line drawn? Soon, any and all sin, wickedness and outright evil can be claimed as mere "genetic anomalies" as an excuse to evade responsibility. The Lord said very plainly in Scripture that to even look at a woman and lust after her is to have committed adultery with her in your heart: Shabbat shalom, Sojourner. The line is drawn when we cease to discuss the ATTRACTION and begin to discuss the DESIRE. You, like shiloh, need to understand that there is a DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE TWO! And, again, I'll say it to you like I said it to shiloh: It's not an "excuse"; it's merely an "EXPLANATION." There is NO "excuse" for one falling for the attraction and having a DESIRE for the same gender! THAT'S when it becomes sin! Notice the four words I highlighted in the quote of your words above: "and lust after her." THAT'S when Yeshua` said a person has sinned - has "committed adultery with her." Quote "You have heard that the ancients were told, ‘YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT MURDER’ and ‘Whoever commits murder shall be liable to the court.’ But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother shall be guilty before the court; and whoever says to his brother, ‘You good-for-nothing,’ shall be guilty before the supreme court; and whoever says, ‘You fool,’ shall be guilty enough to go into the fiery hell. Therefore if you are presenting your offering at the altar, and there remember that your brother has something against you, leave your offering there before the altar and go; first be reconciled to your brother, and then come and present your offering. Make friends quickly with your opponent at law while you are with him on the way, so that your opponent may not hand you over to the judge, and the judge to the officer, and you be thrown into prison. Truly I say to you, you will not come out of there until you have paid up the last cent. You have heard that it was said, ‘YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT ADULTERY’; but I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart. If your right eye makes you stumble, tear it out and throw it from you; for it is better for you to lose one of the parts of your body, than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. If your right hand makes you stumble, cut it off and throw it from you; for it is better for you to lose one of the parts of your body, than for your whole body to go into hell." (Matthew 5:21-30, NASB, emphasis mine) With that in mind, sin does not begin in our "genes" per se, but in our hearts, where the matter has always been. And, that's all I've EVER said! Sin does NOT begin in our "genes," because sin does NOT begin in temptation! When we SUCCUMB to that temptation, when we FALL for that temptation, and begin to DESIRE/LUST FOR it in our hearts, THAT'S when one begins to SIN! Quote Christ did not die to save defective physiology, but to redeem the souls of men. If we seek to pin the blame on genetic makeup, then are we not questioning the Lord's call for us to repent and instead pointing the finger at another source? We saw that same scenario played out in the Garden of Eden: Adam blamed Eve, Eve blamed the Serpent, and the Serpent didn't have a leg to stand on! PRECISELY SO! The Messiah has NOT removed temptations, such as can be found in defective physiology, with His death on the execution stake known as a "cross." And, it's not the "blame" that I'm trying to attach to the genetic makeup of a person. I'm simply trying to show that such genetic makeup may be the source of such a HIGH temptation to that individual! Regardless the strength of the temptation in his or her life, when he or she CHOOSES to desire/lust for that temptation, HE or SHE is to blame for the sin! Quote As for what "the abomination" is: no, it was not God's design. But since you admit that it was "poor human choices", then that speaks to the fact that sin does indeed start in the human heart and not "bad wiring". In this particular case, I was talking about the "poor human choices" of the ENTIRETY of the human race since Adam! We have inherited a fallen world, and THAT explains the "bad wiring." The "bad wiring," however, does not EXCUSE a person for making his or her own bad choice to sin! Quote While there are indeed genetic and physiological consequences that we have suffered (and continue to suffer) due to the fall, those do not prove themselves to be the source of sin. They are results, not causes. EXACTLY! And, that's all I've EVER said to shiloh and everyone else! Genetic and physiological consequences we've inherited from the Fall are the source of the TEMPTATION FOR THEM, not the sin! Quote The Word of God tells us: " Blessed is a man who perseveres under trial; for once he has been approved, he will receive the crown of life which the Lord has promised to those who love Him. Let no one say when he is tempted, “I am being tempted by God”; for God cannot be tempted by evil, and He Himself does not tempt anyone. But each one is tempted when he is carried away and enticed by his own lust. Then when lust has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and when sin is accomplished, it brings forth death. Do not be deceived, my beloved brethren. Every good thing given and every perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of lights, with whom there is no variation or shifting shadow. In the exercise of His will He brought us forth by the word of truth, so that we would be a kind of first fruits among His creatures." (James 1:12-18, NASB, emphasis mine) If that is a problem, then the one you need to take it up with is the One who wrote that (via James). No, my Maker and I have a good relationship. We're fine. Edited February 17, 2018 by Retrobyter to fix a spelling error Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 4 hours ago, Retrobyter said: Shabbat shalom, shiloh. NO! Sin does NOT begin with the attraction. The TEMPTATION begins with the attraction! Sin absolutely begins with attraction. That is why we can be tempted. We should not be attracted to a lifestyle that God calls an abomination. Same-sex attraction needs to be repented of, not treated like it inconsequential or the result of a genetic mutation or whatever. It is a sin and those who find themselves in that state need to repent, first and foremost. Quote Don't you think that Yeshua` was attracted to that bread that haSatan suggested He make when he tempted Him? After 40 days and nights, the temptation was very real! BUT, the temptation was NOT sin! Would it have been wrong for Yeshua` to turn those stones into bread? Doesn't it depend on the motivation? If His motives were self-serving and He had made the transformation, would He have sinned? YES! That is another false analogy that bears no resemblance to what we are talking about. There is nothing sinful about eating bread when you're hungry. The bread was not the point. The temptation was not about the bread. It was Jesus depending on His Father for provision. The devil was questioning Jesus' deity as the Son of God. And He was tempting Jesus to take for Himself instead of depending on the Father. Jesus was not "attracted" to bread. That is just nonsense. Quote The attraction is not natural, but it is not yet a sin! They can be INNOCENTLY attracted to the wrong gender! Yeah, that is not in any part of the Bible's doctrine of sin. There is nothing in what the Bible says about homosexuality that allows a person to be attracted to the wrong gender, innocently. God hates that which prompts sin, not just the sin itself. Quote They just need to know that it's not NATURAL! They need to be TAUGHT not to pursue such attraction! They need to be TAUGHT that it's not natural OR what God wants for them! No, they need to be taught that it is a sin and an abomination before God. They need to be taught that God hates it. They need to be taught that those who live that way will not enter the Kingdom of God. Quote While they have not given in to LUSTING after the wrong gender, they are yet INNOCENT! That's all I'm saying! I'm not sticking up for the sin! And, when they cross the line, they are sinners, the same as ANYONE is when they steal a cookie or tell a lie aganst another! No, that is simply not true. Sexual sin isn't like stealing a cookie. Being attracted to the same gender has no sinless component attached to it anywhere in Scripture. It may not sinful TO YOU, but I don't base my theology on anything you say. I have found you to be theologically inept and incompetent when it comes the essential doctrine of the deity of Jesus, so that pretty much skews everything else you teach. So, I see no wisdom in considering anything you teach, on a theological level. Quote Do you know that this was PRECISELY what the "Separatists" (Hebrew: P'rushiym = "Pharisees") believed? Why do you think they looked down their long noses at Yeshua` who was hob-nobbing with the low-lifes, the "undesirables?" No, not really. That is just the usual crap people throw out, comparing people to the Pharisees whenever they cannot construct an intelligent, rational, meaningful response. The fact is that I go by the Bible and not by what will keep me in the good graces of sinners. Jesus didn't seek to win credibility with sinners. I don't need their approval. Maybe you do, but I don't. Quote Sure I can, because the temptation and the allure to such temptation IS NOT SIN! One can have "homosexual TENDANCIES," without actually living the homosexual LIFESTYLE! And, those "homosexual TENDANCIES" may start with a mixed-up hardwiring, thanks to this world's predisposition to such sin! That doesn't make them sinners, YET! We are all born sinners. We don't become sinners after we're born. And there is not one place in the Bible's doctrine of sin where one can have a tendency toward a particular sin and that tendency remain unsinful. Nowhere are people excused for having a tendency to lie or cheat, or steal or murder. You are proposing a false teaching that is simply not found in the Bible. Quote WHEN THEY CROSS THE LINE and give in to those tendancies and CONSIDER FOLLOWING that act and/or lifestyle, THEN they are sinning! Why is that so hard for you to understand?! I don't have a problem understanding. I simply know that it is wrong. Understanding something doesn't mean that I agree with it. I understand what the Bible says, and so I am able to reject your false teaching for the demonic trash that it is. Quote I've got my position and have absolute confidence in what I believe, because I know that it agrees with what I read in the Scriptures. That only further proves your lack of competence in the Scriptures. Quote It's YOU I worry about! How can you HOPE to love the sinner as Yeshua` did the prostitutes and crooked tax-collectors of His day, when you can't separate the sin from the sinner? I love the sinner enough to tell them the truth as opposed to the garbage you are putting out. I am willing to tell the truth about their sin, as opposed to you. Quote Aw, sure there is. Did you know they did studies with over population in rats? Rats stick to male-on-female tendancies in low populations, but in higher populations - when the rats are crowded together, they have a greater tendancy to male-on-male and female-on-female acts! Are these rats "sinning?" Your problem is that you can't tell the difference between a temptation and a sin. Don't waste time with junk science. I really have no respect for any of that. Quote "Nope. You've DEFINITELY misunderstood me, and that's okay. I get it. However, you should know that I am NOT "defending homosexual attraction! Yeah, you kind of are defending it by claiming it is not sinful. It cannot be argued that it is unnatural but not sinful. God has only plan for human sexuality, and anything outside of that plan is perversion and sin. Same sex attraction is outside God's will and that makes it sinful. Quote Do you yet understand? The question is not, "Who is my neighbor?" It's "To whom am I to be a neighbor?" And, the answer is, "ANYONE ... EVERYONE ... who is in need!" Don't you think the homosexuals are "in need," even if they can't recognize it themselves? Yes, but your position doesn't address that need. Your position avoids their need, which is to be told that they need to repent of their sexual attraction to same sex individuals and the entire lifestyle that stems from it. Quote NO! Again, the attraction is flawed! HOWEVER, that's not THEIR sin! That is the ... twisting ... of God's Creation that they inherited because we live in a fallen world! The attraction itself is not where they sin! It's when they themselves LUST for the same gender and when they commit ACTS of homosexuality that they commit sin! Their attraction is sinful and no amount of bolding words and exclamation points and no number of rants, will change that. Quote It's not an "excuse"; it's an "EXPLANATION." Genetic mutation is not a good-enough excuse for them to go on sinning; but it does EXPLAIN how they may have been sucked in so easily in the beginning of their crimes against God! No, it's an excuse. As long as it is a genetic mutation and not a sin, then it doesn't have to be repented of. And as long as they can hold on to that attraction, it is short trip to actually being a practicing homosexual. Quote EXACTLY! But, I'm ONLY talking about the ATTRACTION to the sin, not the sin itself! And I am continuing reject your futile, unbiblical false teaching. 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Guest shiloh357 Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 5 hours ago, Retrobyter said: Shabbat shalom, Sojourner. The line is drawn when we cease to discuss the ATTRACTION and begin to discuss the DESIRE. You, like shiloh, need to understand that there is a DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE TWO! What we understand is that there no such thing as a sinless attraction to sin. The Bible doesn't offer us the ability to be attracted to fornication or adultery, or any other kind of sexual sin and be sinless in that attraction. The problem is not the difference between attraction and full blown lust. We understand the difference between the two. The problem is that there is no allowance made in Scripture to be sinless attracted to anything God hates. Quote And, again, I'll say it to you like I said it to shiloh: It's not an "excuse"; it's merely an "EXPLANATION." Actually, it is an excuse. The world has been trying to prove that same-sex attraction is a genetic issue for decades, it seems and it is all just junk science, and nothing more. Quote EXACTLY! And, that's all I've EVER said to shiloh and everyone else! No, that is not what you have been saying. Sojo is talking the physical consequences of sin, namely death, disease. Those are the consequences of sin, not the source of sin. You have been using genetics as justification/an excuse for not calling attraction to sin, as sin. Quote Genetic and physiological consequences we've inherited from the Fall are the source of the TEMPTATION FOR THEM, not the sin! No, they are not. That is not where temptation comes from. Genetics have never been the reason for same-sex attraction and the Bible makes no allowances for that, either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retrobyter Posted February 17, 2018 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 9 Topic Count: 40 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 6,596 Content Per Day: 1.07 Reputation: 2,446 Days Won: 1 Joined: 06/28/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/28/1957 Share Posted February 17, 2018 5 hours ago, simplejeff said: NO! Yeshua was certainly and absolutely NOT attracted to the bread. Hasatan had nothing in HIM to attract HIM nor to cause HIM to sin. Likewise, Yeshua was certainly and absolutely NOT attracted to women nor to men in any way in the flesh nor inappropriately at all. This is also true of a few children who are RAISED IN THE WAY THEY SHOULD GO ! (like Joseph and Mary and several others throughout Scripture and possibly the 144,000 ) i.e. not just Yeshua, but His children also (not all of them, but some) Shabbat shalom, simplejeff. Must we be reminded? I speak of "attraction" like the poles of two magnets, where north and south poles "attract" - are "drawn together." Hebrews 4:14-16 (KJV) 14 Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession. 15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points TEMPTED like as we are, yet without sin. 16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need. Can't you see that Yeshua` became FULLY HUMAN so that He might be our Help? It's true that He is also FULLY GOD, but one must understand that He gave up that power, at least on a temporary basis, so that He might RELATE to us! After fasting for 40 days and 40 nights, don't you think someone, even Yeshua`, might get just a LITTLE hungry? Bread would sound pretty good, don't you think? THAT'S all a "temptation" is! It's "dangling the carrot in front of the donkey's face!" It's "TESTING!" The test is neither good or bad; it's how one responds to the test! If one passes the test, no sin have been committed. If one fails the test, however, then sin enters. Look at John 1 again: John 1:1-18 (KJV) 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. 4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men. 5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not. 6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe. 8 He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light. 9 That (the Word) was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world. 10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. 11 He came unto his own (the children of Israel of the tribe of Yhudah), and his own received him not. 12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. 14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. 15 John bare witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he of whom I spake, He (Yeshua`) that cometh after me (John) is preferred before me: for he was before me. 16 And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace. 17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ (Yeshua` the Messiah). 18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him. The Word (Ho Logos) was MADE FLESH! It doesn't say that "He took on flesh" or that "He donned flesh, like a garment," as I've read others say about Him. He BECAME flesh! John said, "NO man," including the Disciples (Followers) who became the Apostles (Sent Ones), "hath seen God at ANY TIME," even when they looked straight at Yeshua`, and the book was written AFTER all the events of Yeshua`s life were past, including His resurrection and ascension! He is called "the SON of God." That's significant! There didn't HAVE to be anything special in haSatan (Hebrew for "the Enemy"), but the Enemy just had to present the CHOICE to make it a test! You said, "Yeshua was certainly and absolutely NOT attracted to women nor to men in any way in the flesh nor inappropriately at all." How do you know this? Nothing was said in the Scriptures, either pro or con to this statement! On the other hand, how can the author of Hebrews say what he said, namely, "Jesus the Son of God ... was in all points TEMPTED like as we are, yet without sin," if He WASN'T attracted? That's something to think about. Yet, we find this said about His growth and development: Luke 2:51-52 51 And he went down (literally, downhill) with them, and came to Nazareth, and was subject unto them: but his mother kept all these sayings in her heart. 52 And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favour with God and man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simplejeff Posted February 17, 2018 Group: Mars Hill Followers: 12 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7,689 Content Per Day: 2.38 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 20 Joined: 06/30/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted February 17, 2018 Ekklesia seek to purify themselves, BECAUSE HE IS PURE. (i.e. He has no sin, no ungodly affection nor desire nor attraction) ONLY the pure in heart will ever see heaven. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simplejeff Posted February 17, 2018 Group: Mars Hill Followers: 12 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7,689 Content Per Day: 2.38 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 20 Joined: 06/30/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted February 17, 2018 37 minutes ago, simplejeff said: Ekklesia seek to purify themselves, BECAUSE HE IS PURE. (i.e. He has no sin, no ungodly affection nor desire nor attraction) ONLY the pure in heart will ever see heaven. Matthew 5:8 Blessed are the pure in heart, for they will see God. biblehub.com/matthew/5-8.htm 6. The pure in heart are happy; for they shall see God. About 55,700 results (0.36 seconds) Search Results 1 John 3:3 And every man that has this hope in him purifies himself ... biblehub.com/1_john/3-3.htm And everyone having this hope in Him purifies himself, just as He is pure. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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