Fear the Lord?

[frienduff thaylorde]

1 minute ago, Yowm said:

It's a good thing some people (translators) know Greek, otherwise we would be spoon fed Rome's doctrines.

Luther proved that true.

OH I agree.   and what beautiful truth was revealed.   we got several beautiful bibles from that era .

Sadly yeah,    I aint seeing it so much in some of these newer ones.   Guess GREEK EVOVLES EH............................right .   

[Guest Butero]

2 minutes ago, Yowm said:

It's all emotional gander on your part seeing you can't answer my question but insist on calling me a liar as well as many other Greek  and manuscript scholars who know their subject far more than the two of us combined. Just because there are differences amongst conservative scholars on a hotly contested topic as Rom 8:1 does not mean one is a liar.

My challenge still stands as I had posted it yesterday. If you can't answer it simply say so. BTW, the topic is the Fear of the Lord?, not Rom 8:1 or the authenticity of the KJV.

Where are the Greek scholars that say Romans 8:1 aren't in most manuscripts as you said?  Where are the ones that said the KJ translators added them?  

As for your doctrinal question, that is another smoke screen to divert from your false comments.  The idea something would fit better in another place is a non starter because it is God's Word and it is as God intended.  This changes nothing, but I will examine what you seem to be charging is a contradiction, another assault on God's Word, and expound it after examining the passages more closely.

[Guest Butero]

38 minutes ago, Gary Lee said:

I suppose I'm missing something here. Is this a discussion about how I can lose my salvation?  Please elaborate. What should I watch out for? Is there some special sins I might commit that I will lose it, if I stumble more than once and walk in the flesh,  even if I don't know which ones?  Sinning once, twice, an hour, a day, a week, or  If so, someone please tell us. Which one is it? Or is it exceeding some limit I'm not aware of? Be specific, and tell me in your own words first, before quoting a dozen scriptures. This is important, right? Can I come back under condemnation, for any reason? What reason?

I am not sure what you are responding to, and this is yet another topic of discussion.  It would be fairly involved if you are wanting my opinion, and different people will give you different responses, so I would need to know specifically who you are talking to and which post you are asking about?

[Christine]

19 hours ago, frienduff thaylorde said:

WHO walk AFTER THE SPIRIT and NOT the flesh.    lets no forget that part .

'There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.'(Rom 8:1)  

There is no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus - that statement can be read entirely as it is without taking from the truth: for in the original manuscripts what follows in this verse is not there, it was added by the translators, being included in a verse further on in the chapter (Rom.8:4).

We have passed from death into life, in Christ Jesus, so we will not come into condemnation.  It has nothing to do with our walk, it has everything to do with the grace of God and the all-sufficiency of Christ's sacrifice for sin and it's consequence.

In Christ Jesus - Chris

 

 

 

Edited February 27, 2018 by Christine
Add a reference

[Christine]

19 hours ago, frienduff thaylorde said:

Yes.   and we know this too.   Be not highminded but fear ,  for if God spared not the natural branches ya better TAKE HEED

lest he SPARE NOT YOU EITHER .    

Hello there,

With respect, this is not applicable to us, who are members of the Body of Christ.  For our calling is in pure grace.  The Olive tree, to which this verse belongs was to those gentiles who were grafted into the Olive tree in order to make the natural branches (Israel) jealous, and for no other reason, therefore they could be spoken of in this way.  The church which is His Body is not grafted into Israel.

In Christ Jesus - Christine

[Guest Butero]

1 hour ago, Yowm said:

You never did explain how you reconcile...

Romans 8:1 KJV
[1] There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

with

John 5:24 NASBS
[24] "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

John 5 puts no judgment in the past tense while the additional phrase in Rom 8:1 appears to attach a condition to 'no condemnation' .

The phrase better fits verse 4...

Romans 8:4 KJV
[4] That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

 

ps no need to get all emotional and call people liars. That would be flaming and walking after the flesh.

 

 

 

First of all, I am not sure what NASBS stands for, there are so many translations and abbreviations out there for them, but I don't recognize any of them as the Word of God, so right off the bat, I have to look this up in the real Bible.  

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life."  John 5:24

I think I will throw in my own passage of the words of Jesus to see how that seems to coincide with John 5:24

"Not everyone that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.  Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?  And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."  

Doesn't that seem to contradict the way you read John 5:24, people being cast out from the presence of the Lord because they worked iniquity, even though they heard his words and believed on God the Father?  These are just games you are playing with God's Word.  It is about rightly dividing the Word of truth.  You can't take isolated verses and claim they contradict another verse.  They all go together.  If they seem to contradict, that means we are misunderstanding the true meaning.  You were comparing this to Romans 8:1, so lets turn there next.  

"There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit."

Romans 8:1 goes hand in hand with Galatians 5:16, "This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh."  How about Galatians 5:18, "But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law."  This seems to indicate that being out from under the law is conditional based on being led by the Spirit.  

There are no mistakes in the Bible.  There are no verses that were in the original Christian "closed" canon that didn't belong.  There are no contradictions.  We can misinterpret things, but that is on us.  As I have said before, if it is ok to remove part of the scriptures that were part of the established canon, we now have an open canon, and anything goes.  I am not ok with that, and I don't believe God is ok with that.  

Now, lets go back to questions you haven't answered.  

1.  Who are the Greek scholars that said that the majority of manuscripts don't include the entire verse of Romans 8:1 as found in the KJV Bible?  I didn't say that the Egyptian and Alexandrian text doesn't include them.  I want to know which ones agree with what you said that the majority don't include them?

2.  Where are the Greek scholars that claim that Romans 8:1 as found in the KJV Bible had additional content added by those specific translators?  How can they reconcile that in light of the fact the Geneva Bible included the entire verse as well?  

I doubt you will be satisfied with what I said, even though I showed how this phony contradiction game is played, so here is how I interpret the scripture in John 5:24.  This goes hand in hand with how Jesus said in another place that those who believe are not condemned, but those that don't believe are condemned already because they reject the Son of God.  This was not intended to mean everyone that believes Jehovah is God is automatically saved anymore than it is saying that just because you hear Jesus speak you are saved.  The religious crowd of Jesus' day heard him speak and believed in God the Father.  Even the devils know who God is and believe Jesus is telling the truth.  He is saying that belief on him makes it possible to be saved, whereas not believing in him guarantees you are facing eternal damnation.  Hearing and believing means more than listening to the Bible on cd and believing the God of the Bible is real.  True faith, according to James, will produce good works, which is why faith without works is dead.  It isn't real faith without works, at least it is not saving faith.  You must understand the intended meaning.  That is why it is necessary to continually read the Bible to get the full truth.  You must know the whole New Testament to understand the real meaning of specific verses like John 5:24.  

[Guest Butero]

23 minutes ago, Christine said:

Hello there,

With respect, this is not applicable to us, who are members of the Body of Christ.  For our calling is in pure grace.  The Olive tree, to which this verse belongs was to those gentiles who were grafted into the Olive tree in order to make the natural branches (Israel) jealous, and for no other reason, therefore they could be spoken of in this way.  The church which is His Body is not grafted into Israel.

In Christ Jesus - Christine

I completely disagree.  The church is grafted into Israel.  There is but one spiritual tree, made up of believing Jews and Gentiles.  When a person who is Jewish (natural branch) doesn't believe, they are cut out of the tree.  When a person who is a gentile (wild branch) believes, they are grafted into the tree.  That is exactly what it means.  Gentile believers become spiritually of the house of Israel.  They are as adopted Jews.  

[Christine]

'There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, (who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit). But the Law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending His Own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and f or sin, condemned sin in the flesh; so that the righteousness of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. (Rom 8:1-4)

* This is where the words of verse 1b belong, where the Holy Spirit intended it to be.

.

Edited February 27, 2018 by Christine
change color of reference

[Guest Butero]

34 minutes ago, Christine said:

'There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.'(Rom 8:1)  

There is no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus - that statement can be read entirely as it is without taking from the truth: for in the original manuscripts what follows in this verse is not there, it was added by the translators, being included in a verse further on in the chapter (Rom.8:4).

We have passed from death into life, in Christ Jesus, so we will not come into condemnation.  It has nothing to do with our walk, it has everything to do with the grace of God and the all-sufficiency of Christ's sacrifice for sin and it's consequence.

In Christ Jesus - Chris

 

 

 

That is not true.  I have already proven it to be a lie by referencing the fact that it was included in the Geneva Bible, that predates the KJV Bible of 1611.  In addition to that, it was part of the Biblical canon. so those who make these claims are promoting an open canon.  This is an assault of God's Word.  Any Bible that shortens verses, removes them or discredits them is of the devil.  I would be terrified of God's wrath coming down on me if I did that or promoted that.  

[Guest Butero]

1 minute ago, Christine said:

'There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, (who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit). But the Law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending His Own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and f or sin, condemned sin in the flesh; so that the righteousness of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. (Rom 8:1-4)

* This is where the words of verse 1b belong, where the Holy Spirit intended it to be.

.

That is a lie from the pits of hell, and nobody will convince me otherwise.  It belongs exactly where it was in the Geneva Bible, the KJV Bible and even the NKJV Bible.  This was part of the closed Biblical canon, and anyone that changes that is promoting an open canon.  It is no different than attacking Mark 16:9-20.  That is part of the Biblical canon.