jc49 Posted April 21, 2005 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 82 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 498 Content Per Day: 0.07 Reputation: 7 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/10/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/25/1949 Share Posted April 21, 2005 ROMAN CATHOLICISM Is the Pope Infallible In Matters of Doctrine and Morals? - Part 2 by Dr. John Ankerberg and Dr. John Weldon Unfortunately, the story behind papal infallibility is less well known than the doctrine itself. Writing in The Trinity Review for July, 1992, John W. Robbins discusses what went on behind the scenes at the first Vatican Council: The Vatican Council itself was a travesty. The 700,000 residents of the Roman states were represented by 62 bishops, constituting half to two-thirds of every committee. The 1,700,000 Polish Catholics were represented by one bishop, who was not chosen for a single commission; four Neopolitan and Sicilian bishops outvoted the bishops of Paris, Cologne and Chambray, representing 4,700,000 Catholics. Not to take any chances at losing, however, the papacy demanded that debates be conducted in Latin, condemning, writes Himmelfarb, nine-tenths of the bishops to silence and the rest to confusion. The pope refused the bishops permission to examine the stenographic reports of their own speeches; he prohibited meetings of twenty or more bishops outside the council; he strictly censored literature, imprisoned and threatened recalcitrant bishops, and continued the time-honored tradition of the Roman post office opening letters suspected of heresies or error. It was declared to be a mortal sin to communicate anything that occurred in the Council. But all was not threats. The pope used promises of titles, positions and benefices to aid his cause as well: Fifteen cardinal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerioke Posted April 21, 2005 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 97 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 5,850 Content Per Day: 0.84 Reputation: 128 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/19/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/11/1911 Share Posted April 21, 2005 To err is human Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jc49 Posted April 21, 2005 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 82 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 498 Content Per Day: 0.07 Reputation: 7 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/10/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/25/1949 Author Share Posted April 21, 2005 To err is human <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Errare humanum est,perseverare diabolicum Shalom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonard Posted April 21, 2005 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 115 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 8,281 Content Per Day: 1.12 Reputation: 249 Days Won: 3 Joined: 03/03/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/30/1955 Share Posted April 21, 2005 jc49: A good deal of what you've said is quite accurate, however much is also quite skewed. The doctrine of Papal Infallability is terribly misunderstood. Not everything the Pope says, writes, or burps is considered infallable. It is my understanding that only 2 or 3 times in history has a Pope invoked infallability and given an 'ex cathedra' decree. In fact, a number of years back, the Bishop of Phoenix, Az. had declined to do something or other in his diocese which the Pope had said he wanted done. The Pope wrote him a letter demanding obedience, ending the letter with: "I think you forget who is the Bishop of Rome." The Bishop of Phoenix responded, still declining to 'obey' and ended his missive with: "I think you forget who is the Bishop of Phoenix." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stranger Posted April 23, 2005 Share Posted April 23, 2005 Israel is the nation who provides all the priests of God including those of the new covenant with Israel [Heb 8:7-12] who MINISTER as servants of God in our salvation in the new earth ... Exodus 19:6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel. 1Peter 2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light: 10 Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy. Isaiah 7:8 ...shall Ephraim be broken, that it be not a people. Rev 7:3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads. 4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel... We cannot attain the salvation due to Israel because God has chosen to show His power in His truth by redeeming this stiff-necked, rebellious, disobedient people to be His incorruptible royal priesthood by His UNCONDITIONAL new covenant with Isreal :- Heb 8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second. 8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah: 9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord. 10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: 11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest. 12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more. ---Thus we see God simply forgives them and MAKES them His people ... but it says specifically it is an agreement with ONLY the two houses of Israel they are CHOSEN by God to be His priests, so they must be redeemed first so that they can serve in the redemption of billions of people in the new earth ... not chosen by favour, but by necessity that the priests need to be first so that they can serve others afterward... So we cannot attain their resurrection [the first] , the churches have it very wrong , but we shall all attain the second resurrection after death for sin...then and only then, after the second resurrection, is it even POSSIBLE for God to pour out His spirit on ALL flesh [because MANY already died IN SIN, they cannot have the spirit poured on them until AFTER the second resurrection!] Acts 2:17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh Thus the priesthood of God comes only from Israel and is not even ordained by God until the return of Jesus, apart from Jesus as high priest ... We can see then from scripture that there are a vast number , over a billion very strongly deluded 'christians' and their 'priests' out there :- 2 Thessalonians 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yomotalking Posted April 23, 2005 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 154 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 2,838 Content Per Day: 0.40 Reputation: 19 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/18/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/29/1991 Share Posted April 23, 2005 The Pope is human, like all of us.....man can make mistakes....and God is the only One who is infallible...... He never makes mistakes.... Yomo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RustyAngeL Posted April 23, 2005 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 23 Topic Count: 155 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 7,464 Content Per Day: 1.02 Reputation: 8,810 Days Won: 57 Joined: 03/30/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/12/1952 Share Posted April 23, 2005 The Pope is human, like all of us.....man can make mistakes....and God is the only One who is infallible...... He never makes mistakes.... Yomo <{POST_SNAPBACK}> You got it yomo. I know there are people out there who believe he is without sin. I use to work with a woman who believed that. As you said only God is infallible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jc49 Posted April 23, 2005 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 82 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 498 Content Per Day: 0.07 Reputation: 7 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/10/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/25/1949 Author Share Posted April 23, 2005 The Pope is human, like all of us.....man can make mistakes....and God is the only One who is infallible...... He never makes mistakes.... Yomo <{POST_SNAPBACK}> ok ok let's see..if the pope is infallible then he should know that Jesus NEVER called anybody to be pope...ahaha so it happens that the pope doesn't get it and so it is obvious that he is not infallible The pope dresses in white and they call him HOLY FATHER,DOMINUS( in latin=LORD!!) so the pope doesn't read his bible( oh,this pope speaks 10 languages!!may be he cannot read! ) because if he would read his bible or somebody would read it to him,he would know that Jesus FORBIDS to call anyone FATHER on earth( except our human father who procreated us with the great contribution of our mother) and that there is only ONE DOMINUS ( ONE LORD)..so the pope IS NOT INFALLIBLE but in fact seems to me to be a pretty confused human being that is playing with FIRE,cause if one plays with GOD and HIS KINGDOM..I mean..you have gotta be out of your mind!You stay better an unbeliever sinner than playing GOD on EARTH...I read somewhere in THE BIBLE( I read mine ) that GOD is a JEALOUS GOD( I mean after all HE IS THE CREATOR and SUSTAINER of THE ENTIRE UNIVERSE..pretty BIG GOD..uhu?)and that HE,our WONDERFUL LORD,will not GIVE HIS GLORY to NOBODY!!and that includes me ,you and the pope!!!!! No..no...the pope is not infallible..neither this one..Bene..Benedict XIV,nor the ones before him,264 popes!!! I mean...heavy stuff!!!and none of them read their bible!!!..unless is the Rcc Bible and they read the footnotes and believe them!!!ah ah...I dunno if cry or laugh..really...ok,I have a suggestion,a friendly one for this pope...( cannot anything for the 264 dead before!)..ok ,dear Pope( I don't think he'll read this,unfortunately),just go on your knees,call on Jesus,get saved before is too late and come to do some street preaching of the GOSPEL of JESUS CHRIST and chuck away all that stuff that they taught you at Rcc cathechism,you should know by now that you cannot trust the Rcc priests! and if you,dear Ratzinger receive JESUS CHRIST as your Lord and Saviour then you'll know WHO IS THE INFALLIBLE ONE!!!JESUS CHRIST IS INFALLIBLE!!!!,you,me,us,no...sorrrryyyyyyyyyy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jc49 Posted April 23, 2005 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 82 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 498 Content Per Day: 0.07 Reputation: 7 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/10/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/25/1949 Author Share Posted April 23, 2005 I almost forgot ..talking about the infallibility of popes: things that the Pope found out immediately after his death!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papasangel Posted April 23, 2005 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 70 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,513 Content Per Day: 0.19 Reputation: 39 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/19/2002 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/27/1959 Share Posted April 23, 2005 Well this is my opinion. The pope is only a man and man is not infalliable. We are sinful in nature. So no the pope IS NOT infalliable. You only have to look at the actions of the Roman Catholic Church and the accusations of victims who have been molested to know that and other items that have come up in recent history about the Catholic church. If you want the True Infalliable Father to look up to you only have to look to God who IS infalliable in ALL things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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