The Seperation of light and darkness will be a two way street...

[Guest Butero]

John Wesley taught that what Paul described in Romans 7 was life before sanctification, and Romans 8 was life after sanctification.  You go from the place of being unable to stop sinning to a miraculous work of grace where you no longer sin.  That doesn't mean you never make any mistakes, but no more willful sin.  

There is this gospel group I once went to see, Jerry & The Goffs.  Jerry was joking one night about the fact he was a Baptist, one of the singers was Wesleyan and the other Pentecostal.  He said that he could get you saved, the Wesleyan brother could get you sanctified, and the Pentecostal brother could get you filled with the Holy Ghost.  Being Pentecostal, I am used to churches that teach 3 works of grace:  Saved, Sanctified, Filled with the Holy Ghost.  All 3 are separate works of grace, and gifts from God that you simply receive by faith.  All 3 are available now.  

That is Pentecostal doctrine, but recently, while going through the book of Romans, the Lord revealed to me that Romans 7 wasn't about a person that wasn't sanctified.  Paul was speaking of what life was like for those Jews who were still trying to live under the law of Moses.  They would strive to follow it as best they could, but their flesh was weak, and it was impossible.  When you move to chapter 8, Paul is speaking of life when you move away from trusting in the law of Moses to trusting in salvation through faith in Jesus Christ.  Once you are born again, the Spirit of God takes up residence in your body, and you are no longer in bondage to the flesh.  Now you are free to walk in the Spirit, and no longer a slave to sin.  The Lord just revealed that to me about a month ago, and I had been trying to understand Romans 7 and 8 for more than 20 years.  I just suddenly understood what was hidden before.  That is not a common teaching.  

[frienduff thaylorde]

7 minutes ago, Butero said:

John Wesley taught that what Paul described in Romans 7 was life before sanctification, and Romans 8 was life after sanctification.  You go from the place of being unable to stop sinning to a miraculous work of grace where you no longer sin.  That doesn't mean you never make any mistakes, but no more willful sin.  

There is this gospel group I once went to see, Jerry & The Goffs.  Jerry was joking one night about the fact he was a Baptist, one of the singers was Wesleyan and the other Pentecostal.  He said that he could get you saved, the Wesleyan brother could get you sanctified, and the Pentecostal brother could get you filled with the Holy Ghost.  Being Pentecostal, I am used to churches that teach 3 works of grace:  Saved, Sanctified, Filled with the Holy Ghost.  All 3 are separate works of grace, and gifts from God that you simply receive by faith.  All 3 are available now.  

That is Pentecostal doctrine, but recently, while going through the book of Romans, the Lord revealed to me that Romans 7 wasn't about a person that wasn't sanctified.  Paul was speaking of what life was like for those Jews who were still trying to live under the law of Moses.  They would strive to follow it as best they could, but their flesh was weak, and it was impossible.  When you move to chapter 8, Paul is speaking of life when you move away from trusting in the law of Moses to trusting in salvation through faith in Jesus Christ.  Once you are born again, the Spirit of God takes up residence in your body, and you are no longer in bondage to the flesh.  Now you are free to walk in the Spirit, and no longer a slave to sin.  The Lord just revealed that to me about a month ago, and I had been trying to understand Romans 7 and 8 for more than 20 years.  I just suddenly understood what was hidden before.  That is not a common teaching.  

available NOW is right on brother .  in fact  if we have this not ,  then where is our faith .       IF we have THE SPIRIT , then the BODY IS DEAD because of sin .

as in Dead .  IF so be we have HIS SPIRIT and if any man has not the spirit ,  he is NONE of his .    paul like CHRIST like all the apostels were always RIGHT to the point

leaving no room for doubt .     You be blessed butero.     You loved brother ,  so is four L and others .     Sing sister Naomi.     this old man of forty six is off to rest .

Yall youngsters keep the fort held down .   

[Gideon]

8 hours ago, naominash said:

Falling away of true believers or "Christians?"

We will find that as the wheat and tares are separated in the great coming awakening, that in truth, OSAS was actually very true. But here is the catch. Right now, we are in the period where we are told to make our calling and election sure. As much as people say with great conviction “I KNOW that I am saved”, none of us really know. No one.  

Do we think those who were told to “Depart from me, ye workers of iniquity” on the day of judgment knew they were lost? No. The. Words of Jesus stunned them to the core. They were shocked, then terrified, for it is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the loving God without a life that has backed it up.

Oh, they were without a doubt religious. They were church goers. They believed in miracles and casting out demons. But... they had never truly been saved. They were still the ones running their lives. They wanted Jesus as their savior, just not as their Lord. 

So how are we to know that we know Him, that we are genuinely saved? Our goal is to do those things that please Him, to let Him rule over us, and reign in our lives. We want to obey Him, to love Him with our whole hearts, and we long to have His love so well up inside us that we actually do love our neighbor as we love ourselves. 

And this next one is important. We endure to the end. We may be like the good seed that sprouted by we let the cares of this life choke life out of us. We may be like the seed that fell on hard ground. Again, it was good seed. It sprouted, but we thought we had secured our eternity, which to us was all that mattered, and when there was a cost to be paid for following Him, we simply would not pay it. What we call getting saved has been assimed to be a one time experience. We have been taught that once that happens, Heaven is guaranteed to be our home, and we ignore all the verses and warnings that clearly tell us otherwise. 

So is there no security for us right now, as believers? For goodness sake, no. If we have made a conscious choice to follow Him, to lose our life to find His in us, to dig deep to make sure we are on firm foundation, to crown Him both savior and Lord in our life, and continue such an amazingly wonderful walk all the way home, we prove to have always been His sons and daughters. And if that is not YET us, as the awakening happens, we will choose to light our lamps and BE light. 

There is one more thing. As long as we are still thinking we are in our old nature, and we are trying to one degree or another to improve ourselves to be “better Christians”, we are open to temptation to stray. Those in the flesh, the old nature, cannot please Him, nor can they be changed into His image from glory to glory. 

But praise God, once we put off our old nature, because we truly hate that part of us that likes a little sin, we find that security envelopes us like a warm blanket. It is here where God tells us that He will ‘cause us’ to obey Him, to abide in Him, to endure to the end. Then we have real security.

So....back to my very unlike-me comment on 0SAS. Jesus said all who love the light will come to the light. He said “My sheep  hear my voice, and another they will not follow.” What now, in human terms, looks like we have free will to follow or to stray, well, in Heaven it looks completely different. He sees the one who has strayed , quit chuch, got into serious sin....but he does love the light. He just can’t find his way home. 

Praise God for His mercy! We are promised that  Jesus will leave the ninety and nine and bring back such a one, carrying him on His broad and strong shoulders.

in the end, when we look back, the elect were always the elect. Through ups and downs, and perhaps years of straying, there was a love deep inside for goodness to win, especially in their own heart. And the tares? They were always tares. They may be drug addicts, just as the wheat can be. They may be famous preachers or men seen as very pious. But they refused to let Christ reign over them. They liked the forgiveness, but found making Him Lord was “too extreme”.  They may appear to be good on the outside, but inside, they simply did not want to relinquish their free will and be kept from evil by the power of God. 

Right now, we are all growing together. A lot of tares are in the church. And  whether we want to acknowledge it or not, there is a lot of wheat scattered outside church walls. And when the cry goes forth, as it is beginning to, that the master comets, many in church will no doubt continue their church activities, but like Lot’s wife, their heart is in this world, not the next. Savorless salt. 

Conversely,  many in the world, who have fled the church scene or avoided it altogether for they could not stomach the shallowness and hypocrisy of what we have presented as Christianity,  will be swept up into THE church as the awakening progresses. 

What is coming is going to be a worldwide phenomenon.  ALL who love the light will come to see Jesus as the Light of the world.  Muslims, Hindus, and multitudes of all religions or none at all will be found by the Lord and swept up into eternity. How glorious these next few years will be...... IF we are the elect and want more than anything else to let Him rule over us and keep us from evil.

Blessings,

     Gideon

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17 hours ago, Butero said:

Sometimes thoughts in your head are placed there by the enemy, and if you take them captive and immediately reject them, you have not sinned.

Hello Butero

Do you have Biblical support for this teaching..

 

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10 hours ago, Butero said:

John Wesley taught that what Paul described in Romans 7 was life before sanctification, and Romans 8 was life after sanctification.  You go from the place of being unable to stop sinning to a miraculous work of grace where you no longer sin.  That doesn't mean you never make any mistakes, but no more willful sin.  

 

If John Wesley taught this then i believe John wesley was wrong.. Roman 7 is not written by Paul in the past tense it is written in the present tense..

This is present tense scripture::

Romans 7: KJV

14 "For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin. {15} For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I. {16} If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good. {17} Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. {18} For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not. {19} For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do. {20} Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. {21} I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me. {22} For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: {23} But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. {24} O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? {25} I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin."

Paul also said again in present tense..

 

1 Timothy 1: KJV

15 "This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief."

Note Paul never said I was once chief or i was formerly chief.. He said I am Chief,, Present tense..

 

 

[Guest Butero]

22 minutes ago, Adstar said:

Hello Butero

Do you have Biblical support for this teaching..

 

For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh:  (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds;)  Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ; And having a readiness to revenge all disobedience, when your obedience is fulfilled.  2 Corinthians 10:3-6

There is no way to prevent the enemy from whispering bad thoughts into our mind, but we have the choice to either entertain them, which would be sin to us, or take them captive and immediately reject them.  My way of dealing with any bad thought is to ask the Lord to forgive me if I have sinned.  Why take any chances, but I do believe the enemy tempts us to lust or think evil things.  There are thoughts that have come to my mind to do bad things or just sinful thoughts in general that I know were not my own thoughts.  I immediately reject them.  

[Guest Butero]

15 minutes ago, Adstar said:

If John Wesley taught this then i believe John wesley was wrong.. Roman 7 is not written by Paul in the past tense it is written in the present tense..

This is present tense scripture::

Romans 7: KJV

14 "For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin. {15} For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I. {16} If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good. {17} Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. {18} For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not. {19} For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do. {20} Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. {21} I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me. {22} For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: {23} But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. {24} O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? {25} I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin."

Paul also said again in present tense..

 

1 Timothy 1: KJV

15 "This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief."

Note Paul never said I was once chief or i was formerly chief.. He said I am Chief,, Present tense..

 

 

I believe you are wrong and Wesley is wrong.  It appears he is speaking in present tense, but if you start at the beginning of Romans and read straight through into at least chapter 8, and see this in context, you can see how Paul is describing how life under the law is compared to life with the Spirit of God on the inside.  The whole thing is dealing with the Jews who reject Christ and their attempt to live under the law, and how they inwardly desire to do right, but cannot.  Paul understood this struggle, as he was once a person that rejected Christ himself and persecuted the Christian Church.  

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7 minutes ago, Butero said:

For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh:  (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds;)  Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ; And having a readiness to revenge all disobedience, when your obedience is fulfilled.  2 Corinthians 10:3-6

There is no way to prevent the enemy from whispering bad thoughts into our mind, but we have the choice to either entertain them, which would be sin to us, or take them captive and immediately reject them.  My way of dealing with any bad thought is to ask the Lord to forgive me if I have sinned.  Why take any chances, but I do believe the enemy tempts us to lust or think evil things.  There are thoughts that have come to my mind to do bad things or just sinful thoughts in general that I know were not my own thoughts.  I immediately reject them.  

I don't think this scripture says that a Christian can have their thoughts controlled by satan..  It says to me not to engage in physical combat but to only engage in spiritual combat using the truth of the Word of God upon unsaved people who are decieved by lies and deception from evil inspiration from satanic spirits..

Anyway thanks for the reply  Butero..

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9 minutes ago, Butero said:

I believe you are wrong and Wesley is wrong.  It appears he is speaking in present tense, but if you start at the beginning of Romans and read straight through into at least chapter 8, and see this in context, you can see how Paul is describing how life under the law is compared to life with the Spirit of God on the inside.  The whole thing is dealing with the Jews who reject Christ and their attempt to live under the law, and how they inwardly desire to do right, but cannot.  Paul understood this struggle, as he was once a person that rejected Christ himself and persecuted the Christian Church.  

I believe the Book of Romans was directed towards Christian saints in Rome..

If any book was directed at the Jews it was the book of Hebrews...

[Guest Butero]

Just now, Adstar said:

I don't think this scripture says that a Christian can have their thoughts controlled by satan..  It says to me not to engage in physical combat but to only engage in spiritual combat using the truth of the Word of God upon unsaved people who are decieved by lies and deception from evil inspiration from satanic spirits..

Anyway thanks for the reply  Butero..

I don't think they are controlled by Satan.  I just think demonic spirits will try to entice us by speaking things to our mind.  The devil even tempted the Lord when he was on earth.  He desired to sift Peter as wheat.  I know that not all thoughts that come to my mind are my own, but they by no means control me.  The only people who have no control over their thoughts and actions are those who are possessed.  A Christian cannot be possessed, but they can be oppressed by evil Spirits.  

Anyway, those are my thoughts on the matter.  Either way, I make it a practice to immediately repent if I catch myself doing something wrong and the ask forgiveness for any sins I may have committed each day.